pro-choice vs. pro-life states

[TeePee4Prez]

 I noticed you mentioned Pennsylvania.  Are you suggesting they are pro-life?  I would guess most of the state is, but some of the suburban areas such as Bucks County are probably more pro-choice.

De jure (by law), PA is anti-abortion.  De facto (by fact), based on polls taken, PA is pro-choice though ever so slightly.  And I'm not talking about Roe vs. Wade which PA residents favor 65-30.

[ChipGardnerNH]

In response to what Cosmo Kramer said from Arkansas, I realize that people are not strictly pro-choice or pro-life, but it goes without saying that pro-life people would support an exception if the life of the mother were in danger.  Even Alan Keyes and Pat Buchanan support that.  Even if you support exceptions for rape or incest like President Bush, I would classify that person as pro-life.  If you oppose partial birth abortion but favor allowing abortions in the first trimester (even when there is NOT rape or incest), I would classify that person as pro-choice.  I would like the maps to be based on the classification that I just layed out.  It seems as if Pennsylvania would be slightly pro-choice but not solidly.  I'm really not sure about Rhode Island.  Some say they are more pro-life, but they voted for Lincoln Chafee (a pro-choice Republican) over a pro-life populist Democrat named Robert Weygand in 2000, so that makes me think they are more Libertarian.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

It would look like this:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

WI and MN are most certainly more towards the Pro Life side than the Pro Abortion side.  Opebo's map comes closest to reality.  If it weren't for the abortion issue, WI and MN would be the most Democrat-loyal states in the Union.

[ChipGardnerNH]

Perhaps we can come to a consensus on certain states and then concentrate on the middle of the road states when it comes to abortion.  If anyone disagrees with the states I'm about to name, let me know.  I would give the pro-lifers Alabama, Georgia, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and West Virginia.  I would definitely give the pro-choicers California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state.  A lot of the libertarian midwestern and western states I'm not really sure about.  I would guess Kansas is more pro-life because Dole was always strong on that issue, and probably the same is true with Nebraska.  I am not sure about New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Wyoming, Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Alaska, and Hawaii.  I am also not sure about Arkansas (a religious state in certain ways but also a high divorce rate and the home of Bill Clinton), Delaware (typically a swing state now leaning Democratic, Washington, DC, Florida (mix of Southerners and Northerners), Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, New York state, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, and Wisconsin.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Real data posted here. Perhaps we can stop with the "Colorado is super pro-life nonsense now".

http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2005/50StateAbortion0805SortedbyProLife.htm

[skybridge]

Didn't you say you don't care who is president just so long as he's pro-life?

[ChipGardnerNH]

Brownie, that was an interesting poll by SurveyUSA, but I have heard that they're not the most reliable polling company.  Colorado ranks as the second most pro-choice Bush state.  I have always thought of Colorado as being more of a socially liberal state, but what threw me off is the fact that they selected a pro-life Democrat populist Ken Salazar last year against a libertarian Pete Coors.  I would think Coors would be a natural fit for their state, but perhaps he lost because he was too much of an intellectual lightweight.  I recall in one of the debates he said he didn't know who Paul Martin is (he's the Prime Minister of Canada).

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Brownie, that was an interesting poll by SurveyUSA, but I have heard that they're not the most reliable polling company.  Colorado ranks as the second most pro-choice Bush state.  I have always thought of Colorado as being more of a socially liberal state, but what threw me off is the fact that they selected a pro-life Democrat populist Ken Salazar last year against a libertarian Pete Coors.  I would think Coors would be a natural fit for their state, but perhaps he lost because he was too much of an intellectual lightweight.  I recall in one of the debates he said he didn't know who Paul Martin is (he's the Prime Minister of Canada).

I have no idea why people ignore the issues so much, but SUSA has a very good track record for 2002 and 2004 (it didn't exist for 2000).

[Jake]

I realize that people are not strictly pro-choice or pro-life, but it goes without saying that pro-life people would support an exception if the life of the mother were in danger. 

Why does it go without saying? How is the mother's life any more important than the child's life and why be inconsistent in supporting abortion in certain circumstances. Either it is immoral to kill a child or it isn't.

[opebo]

I realize that people are not strictly pro-choice or pro-life, but it goes without saying that pro-life people would support an exception if the life of the mother were in danger. 

Why does it go without saying? How is the mother's life any more important than the child's life and why be inconsistent in supporting abortion in certain circumstances. Either it is immoral to kill a child or it isn't.

Because the mother is a person.

By the way, killing is never 'immoral'.

[A18]

Real data posted here. Perhaps we can stop with the "Colorado is super pro-life nonsense now".

http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2005/50StateAbortion0805SortedbyProLife.htm

I've seen national polls showing it much closer than the result SurveyUSA got.

EDIT: Oklahoma tied? Okay, throw anything Survey USA comes up with out the window.

[nini2287]

I realize that people are not strictly pro-choice or pro-life, but it goes without saying that pro-life people would support an exception if the life of the mother were in danger. 

Why does it go without saying? How is the mother's life any more important than the child's life and why be inconsistent in supporting abortion in certain circumstances. Either it is immoral to kill a child or it isn't.

Because the mother is a person.

By the way, killing is never 'immoral'.

Was the Matthew Shepard case immoral?

[A18]

Opebo likes to make outrageous comments just to get attention. If you ignore him, he might stop.

[MaC]

Opebo likes to make outrageous comments just to get attention. If you ignore him, he might stop.

eh, that'd be kinda hard.  It'd be somewhat easy for me to do, but it's hard for most people.  ie. Dibble who argues with him simply so he won't have an impression on the weaker minded.