Voting System Reform Commission: Part 2

[12th Doctor]

I have a suggestion:

Personally, I like the current voting system.  However, I would suggest that, instead of an unlimited number of preferences, we limit the number of prefs that can go on any one ballot to a fist choice, a second choice and maybe a third choice.  That way, it will cut back on long drawn out ballots, with tactical voting, and the like.

If we don;t do this, then we should go to a run-off system.

[KEmperor]

I would like to propose the following possiblity suggested by Dubya:

Two reasons:

1.  I'd like to switch to a completely secret ballot system.  No public voting at all.

2. We have a problem with people PM'ing inactives to vote.  If the ballot was PMed to only the eligible voters, we'd eliminate this problem.

I think this might be a good idea, however I would like to see the ballots posted AFTER the election so that everyone can see the result and be able to challenge any discrepancies that they see.

[Joe Republic]

Can I ask the Chairman to restore some order to this Commission's debate, please?

[Peter]

Given that the Senate already has actual legislation pending consideration, I suspect any report we produce will be summarily ignored if passed given that it will be moot.

Further, I have little to no intention of writing another report that will be summarily ignored. Bono is right about one thing - if you want an issue to die, you assign a commission to study it.

I wish to announce that I will step aside as Chair. I personally recommend Emsworth to take over if he will accept, but that is entirely up to him and other commission members.

[Emsworth]

Thank you for your service so far, Peter, and for nominating me.

I would be willing to serve as chair, if there is no objection from the commission.

[KEmperor]

Thank you for your service so far, Peter, and for nominating me.

I would be willing to serve as chair, if there is no objection from the commission.

I have no objections.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

As far as i'm concerned, ther'es only two logical choices. That would be the current system with a semi-secret ballot and Condorcet. A semi-secret ballot meaning the votes are posted after the election's done, this eliminates tactical voting, and ensures the votes can be counted correctly.

Tactical voting would be even worse under any variation of FPTP. Peter's example is one, another is the spoiler effect still being around and people waiting until the end to vote for the candidate they like most to make the run off. The problem with Gabu's idea is it can become almost pure FPTP and if you end up with 5 candidates in the run off someone can end up with 28% and win. And approval would be the worst system, since tactical voting is possible even with a secret ballot. Imagine this hypothetical election:

Emsworth
Joe Republic
opebo
AuH2O
KillerPollo

Under approval voting, Emsworth and Joe Republic supporters would probably vote for the bottom three candidates as well to ensure they face them in the run off. And a worse case scenario: If enough people on both sides do so, neither Emsworth or Joe make the run off, and we end up with opebo vs. AuH2O, AuH2O vs. KillerPollo or opebo vs. KillerPollo.

So as said above, to eliminate tactical voting, stick with IRV with a semi-secret ballot, or go to Condorcet.

[Gabu]

The problem with Gabu's idea is it can become almost pure FPTP and if you end up with 5 candidates in the run off someone can end up with 28% and win.

That would be extremely unlikely, given that you would need no less than 9 candidates, all of whom have enough support to make the runoff.  As well as that, the spoiler effect would be completely gone under my proposal, given that the only way a candidate would advance to the runoff would be if he had a lot of support, and in that case, it would be kind of stretching it to call this candidate a "spoiler".

Also, I don't see why you say that tactical voting would be bad under my proposal, given that my proposal would bring in a secret ballot, making tactical voting essentially impossible.

[Platypus]

i think a secret ballot is absolutely, as is a non-fptp system. I certainly prefer preferential, but condorcet would be an acceptable substitute. Either way, for presidential elections at least, write-in votes should beeliminated.

[True Democrat]

Who determines the districts?

[True Democrat]

Each state is a district.

I meant who determines each region?

[Bono]

I still think it is a better idea to go with the existing regions and aportion EVs between them.

[True Democrat]

I chose the regions according to population so each is somewhat equal.  I intend for them not to be changed even with chages in population but if everyone else seems to think they should be changable, I could consider that suggestion.

I think this could favor one group of people, throwing off the intent of the whole system.

[Gabu]

I'll ask this question again: what is the point of having an electoral college system other than to just mindlessly model what the US does?  Given that we don't really have "states' rights" to protect, it seems to me that the only thing the electoral college system will do is make people mad that their vote counts less than someone else's.

[MaC]

Any other suggestions will be considered.

The Atlasia electoral college baby!

edit-okay, now that I see it, I like it even more!

[Q]

The electoral college is a horrible system.

[Joe Republic]

The electoral college is a horrible system.

I'm very much inclined to agree.

I'll ask this question again: what is the point of having an electoral college system other than to just mindlessly model what the US does?  Given that we don't really have "states' rights" to protect, it seems to me that the only thing the electoral college system will do is make people mad that their vote counts less than someone else's.

I don't think it's just a mindless model of the U.S., more of a way to make the winner more clear and obvious.  No more grey-area, either the candidate wins or loses.

In the same way that Florida got so much attention in 2000 because its electoral votes mattered, but smaller (and closer) states didn't?  This would make things much more deeply confusing, and ultimately unfair.

[Platypus]

I'm not one for threats, but institute the electoral college and I leave, and take a lot of people with me.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Terrible idea. It works crappy in real life, and it would be even worse here.

[minionofmidas]

I'm not one for threats, but institute the electoral college and I leave, and take a lot of people with me.

I'll have one of those pizzas, only without bacon, please.

Yeah, I don't see what this is supposed to accomplish.

[Platypus]

the go bananas? ugh. My favourite is #6.

[Sam Spade]

The electoral college is actually one of my favorite political institutions, as it protects the US from the mobish scourge that is direct democracy.

However in Atlasia, where each person is essentially an electoral vote, there really is no reason or need for it at all.