Sharia courts in Ontario?
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exnaderite
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« on: September 08, 2005, 09:31:11 PM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4226758.stm

Wow. This should definitely not be allowed. This goes for all religious courts. Anyone who advocates such methods should be thrown to lions.
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BRTD
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2005, 09:37:07 PM »

Ms Boyd argues that if Sharia is not allowed, all religious arbitration bodies could be abolished.

Good. They all should be.

This need to be insantly canned, as do the Catholic and Jewish courts.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2005, 10:00:09 PM »

McGuinty is bending over to get the muslim vote in my riding it seems  Tongue
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Max Power
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2005, 10:06:04 PM »

McGuinty is bending over to get the muslim vote in my riding it seems  Tongue
....in more ways then one. Tongue
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2005, 01:10:13 AM »

Now that's just silly (and patronising, btw).
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2005, 09:09:47 AM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4226758.stm

Wow. This should definitely not be allowed. This goes for all religious courts. Anyone who advocates such methods should be thrown to lions.

I wouldn't go as far to say they should be thrown to the lions but Sharia law has no place in the West's functioning liberal democracies

Dave
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KillerPollo
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2005, 09:45:49 AM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4226758.stm

Wow. This should definitely not be allowed. This goes for all religious courts. Anyone who advocates such methods should be thrown to lions.

I wouldn't go as far to say they should be thrown to the lions but Sharia law has no place in the West's functioning liberal democracies

Dave

The Sharia law? Come on! Get on with the 21st century!
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BRTD
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2005, 09:53:55 AM »

In addition to eliminating Sharia in all aspects of society most Western countries should follow the French model and ban those evil headscarves, those miserable symbols of misogyny and oppression. Every time I see a woman wearing one of those I want to puke.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2005, 01:41:02 PM »

In addition to eliminating Sharia in all aspects of society

Eh? I'm not aware of any other Western country adopting a Sharia system...

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HYPOCRITE ALERT
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Emsworth
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2005, 05:03:29 PM »

If the province of Ontario has already decided to sanction special Roman Catholic and Jewish tribunals, then it would be highly unjust of it to disallow an Islamic tribunal. If they are so worried about preventing discrimination against women, then they should not have "opened the door" (so to speak) by setting up these religious tribunals in the first place.

The entanglement with religion, morality, and religious law is, perhaps, another argument in favor of states just recognizing "civil unions" for everybody, and leaving marriage to society and to the churches.
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afleitch
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2005, 05:47:33 PM »

No, no, no ,no ,no ,no ,no ,no! No religious based law has a place in any modern democracy. This law will victimise Muslim women and the doors will be opened for more and more demands for Canada to bow down so low it's nose is sticking into the legal excrement that is Sharia.
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Blue Rectangle
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2005, 05:51:26 PM »

If the province of Ontario has already decided to sanction special Roman Catholic and Jewish tribunals, then it would be highly unjust of it to disallow an Islamic tribunal. If they are so worried about preventing discrimination against women, then they should not have "opened the door" (so to speak) by setting up these religious tribunals in the first place.
Does the government actually "sanction" the tribunals or does it simply refrain from banning them?

The entanglement with religion, morality, and religious law is, perhaps, another argument in favor of states just recognizing "civil unions" for everybody, and leaving marriage to society and to the churches.
Absolutely

However, note that allowing some to participate in marriages that are strictly religious in nature necessarily means that churches would have sole authority over those marriages.  This would require the presence of tribunals.

It goes without saying that BRTD's religious restrictions would be blatantly unconstitutional.
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Emsworth
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2005, 06:14:31 PM »

Does the government actually "sanction" the tribunals or does it simply refrain from banning them?
From what I read, these religious tribunals are regulated just like any other private arbitration agencies. Like any other arbitration board, if what I have read is correct, a religious tribunal must be licensed by the provincial government. Thus, one would conclude that the objective of the anti-Sharia protesters here is to ask the government to deny permission to the Islamic arbitrators (which IMHO strikes one as rather prejudicial, when one is allowing arbitration for other religions).

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That's absolutely right. Ideally, the state would only recognize "civil unions," and pay no attention to the word "marriage." The word would be one defined by society, and not by the government.

Thus, if there are any church tribunals, they would only be private religious bodies, rather than quasi-official organizations whose decisions have legal ramifications.
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BRTD
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2005, 08:18:39 PM »

In addition to eliminating Sharia in all aspects of society

Eh? I'm not aware of any other Western country adopting a Sharia system...

Badly worded. What I mean is no other ones should start.

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HYPOCRITE ALERT

How so? I'm complete pro-feminist and supportive of women's rights. I'm pro-choice and pro-ERA. I argue with dazzleman over his obsessive sick hatred of feminists all the time. Part of the reason I rag on the Catholic church all the time is they're not allowing women's ordination, and my opposition to Islam is largely based on how awful they treat women.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2005, 08:25:48 PM »


How so? I'm complete pro-feminist and supportive of women's rights. I'm pro-choice and pro-ERA. I argue with dazzleman over his obsessive sick hatred of feminists all the time. Part of the reason I rag on the Catholic church all the time is they're not allowing women's ordination, and my opposition to Islam is largely based on how awful they treat women.

I support Sharia law in the US because I think Islamic courts will chop off the feminists' fingers. Tongue
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J. J.
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2005, 09:16:23 PM »

I don't object any more than I object to private mediation, or The People's Court.  So long as the parties agree to the arbitration, I don't object.  If they agree to obey the decision of a Sharia tribunal (or have the option of going to civil courts), it seems okay.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2005, 04:08:19 AM »


Because your either a misogynist or doing a very good impersonation of one

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And yet you spend a lot of money in strip clubs don't you?

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And that has anything to do with, what?

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The irony there is amusing, I'll give you that
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afleitch
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2005, 07:42:35 AM »

Al what is your position on this?
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dazzleman
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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2005, 08:17:43 AM »


Because your either a misogynist or doing a very good impersonation of one

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And yet you spend a lot of money in strip clubs don't you?

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And that has anything to do with, what?

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The irony there is amusing, I'll give you that

Haven't you figured out that mindlessly mouthing feminist slogans, as well as questioning the mental health of anybody who questions them, means a person is not a mysoginist?  You must be slow or something. Tongue

I had the temerity to question that fact that NOW strongly condemns the same behavior in men that it defends in women, and pointed out that NOW set up a fund to support Andrea Yates, who killed all her children.  For that, I am a sick and obsessive hater.  Those who can't handle a philosophy being questioned in any way clearly can't be very comfortable with that philosophy.

In any case, very good points, Al.

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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2005, 10:51:36 AM »


It's a stupid idea for several reasons (Sharia isn't really a coherent legal system for a start; you'll just end up with the people running such a court (who will, obviously, be totally unrepresentative of the wider Muslim community) making things up as they go along... which is how a lot of Sharia was created. Including the stoning of adulterers and most of the other more infamous bits of it) and it's also very patronising.
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Emsworth
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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2005, 11:22:56 AM »


It's a stupid idea for several reasons (Sharia isn't really a coherent legal system for a start; you'll just end up with the people running such a court (who will, obviously, be totally unrepresentative of the wider Muslim community) making things up as they go along... which is how a lot of Sharia was created. Including the stoning of adulterers and most of the other more infamous bits of it) and it's also very patronising.
Of course, participation would be completely voluntary.
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BRTD
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2005, 11:35:42 AM »
« Edited: September 10, 2005, 12:02:28 PM by In on the Kill Taker »

Because your either a misogynist or doing a very good impersonation of one

But I've never absued a woman, which is what a mysoginist would do.

And yet you spend a lot of money in strip clubs don't you?

So? I bet lots of strippers would self-identify as feminist.

Plus let's just take any random night I went to a strip club. Now let's assume I didn't go. What would happen? The girls would still be there stripping, they just would receive a little less money. I only helped them out. Then of course there's the radical idea that some of them might actually LIKE their job, in which case I don't see how anything wrong at all happened, no one's being hurt.

And that has anything to do with, what?

That is generally regarded as a feminist and women's rights issue.

The irony there is amusing, I'll give you that

But I don't think women should be required to wear burkahs. No similarity between me and Muslims.
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BRTD
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2005, 11:37:26 AM »

Haven't you figured out that mindlessly mouthing feminist slogans, as well as questioning the mental health of anybody who questions them, means a person is not a mysoginist?  You must be slow or something. Tongue

I had the temerity to question that fact that NOW strongly condemns the same behavior in men that it defends in women, and pointed out that NOW set up a fund to support Andrea Yates, who killed all her children.  For that, I am a sick and obsessive hater.  Those who can't handle a philosophy being questioned in any way clearly can't be very comfortable with that philosophy.

In any case, very good points, Al.

No your problem is you can't figure out that not all feminists are like NOW, for example ultra-liberal feminist Betty Dodson has written articles attacking them and other "feminists" (I don't consider many of these true feminists because they actually support restricting women's rights) for being anti-male. She's also pro-porn.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2005, 12:08:10 PM »


Depends what you mean by abuse doesn't it?
It's a lovely loaded word and can be used in almost any circumstance to justify almost anything.
You think that Muslims abuse women because of headscarves, right? I'm sure that a lot of Muslims would consider that people that go to strip clubs abuse women.

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Roll Eyes

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Why? And by who?

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Most Muslims don't think that women should be required to wear burkahs. A headscarf is not the same as a burkah.

Besides, that's just dodging the issue. Personally I don't think that anyone who visits strip clubs a lot has any right whatsoever to lecture about "women's rights" or anything like that, but maybe that's just me.
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BRTD
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2005, 12:17:45 PM »

Considering lots of strippers actually LIKE their jobs, I don't see how I can abuse them, especially since if I'll likely be tossed out on my ass by a huge bouncer if I start simply touching them, I can't abuse them. All I'm doing is making them a little bit richer

The complete subjegation of women to second class citizens is much different than paying one to rub her breasts in your face and bite your neck. In fact there's really no similarities at all.
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