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  Talk Elections
  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Congressional Elections (Moderators: Brittain33, Gass3268, VirginiŠ)
  PA-18 Special Election - Lamb by a nose
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Author Topic: PA-18 Special Election - Lamb by a nose  (Read 127631 times)
Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #300 on: February 07, 2018, 10:19:59 pm »
« edited: February 07, 2018, 10:22:57 pm by Bagel23 »

Words like "torture" and "thug" are a flashing yellow light for this thread to go off track from a discussion of this specific Congressional race to a very heated and emotional discussion of a marginally related topic. Let's try to stick to the specifics of this election and not get sidetracked into volatile issues.

I am sorry that I do not embody the characteristics of an sjw, and do not think enhanced interrogation technics are immoral, albeit ineffective, and that is a legitimate and arguable position. I argued it respectfully, and all, but I see that you may not be keen on civil discourse on legitimate issues, that's fine. I hope you find your peace too.
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Holmes
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« Reply #301 on: February 07, 2018, 10:25:17 pm »

He just warned people not to go off topic. It's not that serious.
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Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #302 on: February 07, 2018, 10:31:40 pm »

He just warned people not to go off topic. It's not that serious.

He shows signs of possibly being bereft of the potential wherewithal to tolerate and allow viewpoints that differ from his own. It is quite disheartening, and I hope that he may have a change of heart in the future, and take a alternate perspective.
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Fuzzybigfoot
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« Reply #303 on: February 07, 2018, 10:47:17 pm »

He just warned people not to go off topic. It's not that serious.

He shows signs of possibly being bereft of the potential wherewithal to tolerate and allow viewpoints that differ from his own. It is quite disheartening, and I hope that he may have a change of heart in the future, and take a alternate perspective.

It doesnít matter, this isnít the board for that discussion kind of discussion.  Can we please move on?
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badger
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« Reply #304 on: February 08, 2018, 12:03:53 am »
« Edited: February 08, 2018, 12:06:50 am by Badger »

Words like "torture" and "thug" are a flashing yellow light for this thread to go off track from a discussion of this specific Congressional race to a very heated and emotional discussion of a marginally related topic. Let's try to stick to the specifics of this election and not get sidetracked into volatile issues.

Um, Brittain, you are literally one of the best mods around and always have been, but are you SERIOUSLY implying that one of the candidates in this race having committed torture and proudly defended it - - forgive me if I don't use pussy words like enhanced interrogation techniques - - is somehow NOT directly and inseparably related to that candidates Fitness for office? Huh I mean come on, if we are going to discuss Donald Trump's fleecing the gullible with Trump University, shouldn't a congressional candidates Unapologetic use of torture on prisoners is more than a little relevant? That this is somehow a "distraction" to the thread rather than directly related?!?

Sorry, but you this one time simply wrong , wrong, wrong. While bagel and I obviously have strong disagreements about the use of torture , he is dead right that it's directly related to this election on which the thread is based
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Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #305 on: February 08, 2018, 12:13:34 am »

Words like "torture" and "thug" are a flashing yellow light for this thread to go off track from a discussion of this specific Congressional race to a very heated and emotional discussion of a marginally related topic. Let's try to stick to the specifics of this election and not get sidetracked into volatile issues.

Um, Brittain, you are literally one of the best mods around and always have been, but are you SERIOUSLY implying that one of the candidates in this race having committed torture and proudly defended it - - forgive me if I don't use pussy words like enhanced interrogation techniques - - is somehow NOT directly and inseparably related to that candidates Fitness for office? Huh I mean come on, if we are going to discuss Donald Trump's fleecing the gullible with Trump University, shouldn't a congressional candidates Unapologetic use of torture on prisoners is more than a little relevant? That this is somehow a "distraction" to the thread rather than directly related?!?

Sorry, but you this one time simply wrong , wrong, wrong. While bagel and I obviously have strong disagreements about the use of torture , he is dead right that it's directly related to this election on which the thread is based

Thank you for standing for productive civil discourse on important issues and tolerance of other viewpoints. It is very refreshing in times such as these.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #306 on: February 08, 2018, 06:43:14 am »

Hey all,

I don't consider it the moderator's place to prevent discussion of relevant topics, so based on the response, I'm not going to stand in the way of discussions of torture as an issue if it is a point of disagreement between Saccone and Lamb.

My experience as a moderator is that discussions which get into enthusiasm for violence and vengeance against individuals, whether politicians, wannabe politicians, or classes of people, don't go well. This has happened with people like President Trump and Chelsea Manning and it just blows everything up and kills off other discussion. If we can avoid that fate and avoid overheated discussion, it won't get moderated.
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Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #307 on: February 08, 2018, 05:47:57 pm »

Hey all,

I don't consider it the moderator's place to prevent discussion of relevant topics, so based on the response, I'm not going to stand in the way of discussions of torture as an issue if it is a point of disagreement between Saccone and Lamb.

My experience as a moderator is that discussions which get into enthusiasm for violence and vengeance against individuals, whether politicians, wannabe politicians, or classes of people, don't go well. This has happened with people like President Trump and Chelsea Manning and it just blows everything up and kills off other discussion. If we can avoid that fate and avoid overheated discussion, it won't get moderated.


Please sir, I humbly entreat you to travel the path of honesty. It is a fact that someone deleted two unreported posts of mine last evening on this thread on the issue, respectfully arguing and backing up with sources, the case that torture against bad people is not immoral, rather just ineffective.
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Holmes
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« Reply #308 on: February 08, 2018, 07:22:21 pm »

Is Lamb accepting SuperPAC money?
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badger
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« Reply #309 on: February 09, 2018, 02:59:05 am »

Hey all,

I don't consider it the moderator's place to prevent discussion of relevant topics, so based on the response, I'm not going to stand in the way of discussions of torture as an issue if it is a point of disagreement between Saccone and Lamb.

My experience as a moderator is that discussions which get into enthusiasm for violence and vengeance against individuals, whether politicians, wannabe politicians, or classes of people, don't go well. This has happened with people like President Trump and Chelsea Manning and it just blows everything up and kills off other discussion. If we can avoid that fate and avoid overheated discussion, it won't get moderated.


Please sir, I humbly entreat you to travel the path of honesty. It is a fact that someone deleted two unreported posts of mine last evening on this thread on the issue, respectfully arguing and backing up with sources, the case that torture against bad people is not immoral, rather just ineffective.

At the risk of derailing this (screw you Brittain Tongue), if you--correctly--acknowledge torturing "mostly" bad people is ineffective, then how is it not immoral? Surely the only possible argument for it is its utility in some people's minds picturing a "Jack Bauer--24" scenario where a new 9/11 is prevented at the last moment by a dedicated government agent who plays by his own rules breaking the individual fingers of terrorists until they scream out where the detonator is hidden, etc. etc. etc.

Without that scenario, which you and I both recognize is Hollywood fantasy and contradicted by actual intelligence interrogators, what possible moral justification remains for the use of such tactics?

Oh, and thus how isn't Saccone a poophead? (/obligatory reference to the thread subject)
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Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #310 on: February 09, 2018, 11:59:35 am »

Hey all,

I don't consider it the moderator's place to prevent discussion of relevant topics, so based on the response, I'm not going to stand in the way of discussions of torture as an issue if it is a point of disagreement between Saccone and Lamb.

My experience as a moderator is that discussions which get into enthusiasm for violence and vengeance against individuals, whether politicians, wannabe politicians, or classes of people, don't go well. This has happened with people like President Trump and Chelsea Manning and it just blows everything up and kills off other discussion. If we can avoid that fate and avoid overheated discussion, it won't get moderated.


Please sir, I humbly entreat you to travel the path of honesty. It is a fact that someone deleted two unreported posts of mine last evening on this thread on the issue, respectfully arguing and backing up with sources, the case that torture against bad people is not immoral, rather just ineffective.

At the risk of derailing this (screw you Brittain Tongue), if you--correctly--acknowledge torturing "mostly" bad people is ineffective, then how is it not immoral? Surely the only possible argument for it is its utility in some people's minds picturing a "Jack Bauer--24" scenario where a new 9/11 is prevented at the last moment by a dedicated government agent who plays by his own rules breaking the individual fingers of terrorists until they scream out where the detonator is hidden, etc. etc. etc.

Without that scenario, which you and I both recognize is Hollywood fantasy and contradicted by actual intelligence interrogators, what possible moral justification remains for the use of such tactics?

Oh, and thus how isn't Saccone a poophead? (/obligatory reference to the thread subject)

I view ethics and strategy as two different entities, and they don't cross in my mind barring extremes. Taking the issue of enhanced interrogation methods on bad people: for me, the ethics are fine, nothing morally/ethically wrong with it for me, strategy: there are better ways, its stupid, that's why we should not do it.
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UncleSam
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« Reply #311 on: February 09, 2018, 07:01:23 pm »

IMO Brittain is 100% right. Discussions on torture etc. very rarely stay on topic and very easily devolve into personal attacks. That being said, the fact that Saccone is very much in favor of it could be a significant campaign issue. Obviously Lamb will spin him as heartless and evil and he will spin it as being willing to defend this country against terrorists.
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Chief Justice Keef
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« Reply #312 on: February 09, 2018, 07:59:15 pm »

I don't see why all the republicans are alarmed by Saccone. He seem like a decent candidate and decent human being, I of course support Lamb, but strategically wise I would give him and his campaign a B, I would give his decent human being rating about a B-, and I would rate his politics from my view as about a D. Not the best, but I don't see why the GOP is panicking.

That whole proudly torturing people gives him a significantly lower human being grade than B- in my book.

Not really a biggie in my book there, most of those people deserve it.

Your use of the words "deserve" and, particularly, "most" are..... disheartening.
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Holmes
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« Reply #313 on: February 09, 2018, 09:30:22 pm »

The difference between the candidates' social media presence is funny. Not even the fact that Lamb has 10x the followers, but Saccone's just tweeting how wage increases for CVS and Chipotle are so good for PA-18 (lol) whereas Lamb's talking health care, social security, engaging with voters.

Saccone is horrible.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #314 on: February 09, 2018, 09:37:56 pm »

Interesting note, but I read a tweet that the PA GOP moved Lamb's home into Doyle's PA-14 in their redraw map.
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Mondale
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« Reply #315 on: February 09, 2018, 09:39:33 pm »

Interesting note, but I read a tweet that the PA GOP moved Lamb's home into Doyle's PA-14 in their redraw map.

GOP must be sweatin' like dogs. They also have 2nd place Trump doing a rally for Succone
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Holmes
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« Reply #316 on: February 09, 2018, 09:45:10 pm »

On the other hand, Biden's going to do a rally too.
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Ses
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« Reply #317 on: February 09, 2018, 09:52:31 pm »

Interesting note, but I read a tweet that the PA GOP moved Lamb's home into Doyle's PA-14 in their redraw map.

Wolf would probably veto that...and it also wouldn't go into effect until later in the year.
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« Reply #318 on: February 09, 2018, 10:51:44 pm »

Interesting note, but I read a tweet that the PA GOP moved Lamb's home into Doyle's PA-14 in their redraw map.

Wolf's going to veto it.
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#Solid4096
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« Reply #319 on: February 10, 2018, 09:09:19 am »

Interesting note, but I read a tweet that the PA GOP moved Lamb's home into Doyle's PA-14 in their redraw map.

Wolf's going to veto it.

Hopefully.
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badger
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« Reply #320 on: February 10, 2018, 03:48:32 pm »

Interesting note, but I read a tweet that the PA GOP moved Lamb's home into Doyle's PA-14 in their redraw map.

Wolf's going to veto it.

Definitely, but it also shows the Pennsylvania GOP is seriously scared lamb is going to win this
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Brittain33
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« Reply #321 on: February 10, 2018, 11:56:04 pm »

It seems like Saccone has been heavier with expenses than most legislators in Pennsylvania, although I don't see anything illegal here.

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/01/rick-saccone-congress-pennsylvania/
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Nat. Sec. Council Member Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #322 on: February 11, 2018, 08:45:58 pm »

Newest CLF ad up, it seems the GOP has decided to quit it with the Sheep references:

https://youtu.be/0KTO83fyz_M
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#Bidemings2020
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« Reply #323 on: February 11, 2018, 08:48:52 pm »

Still a pretty terrible ad. They are attacking him on a tax bill he couldn't vote on.
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Mondale
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« Reply #324 on: February 11, 2018, 08:51:33 pm »

Newest CLF ad up, it seems the GOP has decided to quit it with the Sheep references:

https://youtu.be/0KTO83fyz_M

You'd think watching that, that Lee Atwater was still alive making attack ads and we were still in the 80s. What's next...."Libruhl Conor Lamb was live when Willie Horton raped and killed"

The GOP is such a joke
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