Bush had the authority to send troops to LA on Friday Aug 26th

[J. J.]

The current issue of Time is reporting if there was a storm surge that over topped the 17th Street Canal Levee.  It's stating that there might have been leaks, due to poor construct or poor maintenance.

[J. J.]

I read the letter again and note that it wasn't directly sent to the president either, or to Homeland Security, or to the FEMA director.  It went to FEMA office in Denton, TX, which I'd assume is protocol.  No cc's either.

So let's see, the Katrina's eye made landfall at 6:10 AM, which means that transprotation in was cut off about 8-12 hours before that.  So you had something less than 22 hours to do anything.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I read the letter again and note that it wasn't directly sent to the president either, or to Homeland Security, or to the FEMA director.  It went to FEMA office in Denton, TX, which I'd assume is protocol.  No cc's either.

So let's see, the Katrina's eye made landfall at 6:10 AM, which means that transprotation in was cut off about 8-12 hours before that.  So you had something less than 22 hours to do anything.

Why would transportation be completely cut off 8-12 hours before the eye of the hurricane hit the coast south of New Orleans?

[J. J.]

I read the letter again and note that it wasn't directly sent to the president either, or to Homeland Security, or to the FEMA director.  It went to FEMA office in Denton, TX, which I'd assume is protocol.  No cc's either.

So let's see, the Katrina's eye made landfall at 6:10 AM, which means that transprotation in was cut off about 8-12 hours before that.  So you had something less than 22 hours to do anything.

Why would transportation be completely cut off 8-12 hours before the eye of the hurricane hit the coast south of New Orleans?

In case you were not watchind the news, they had this very large hurricane called Katrina.  It was moving slowly, about 17 MPH, and was 135 miles in diameter.  The winds and rain began well before landfall of the eye. at roughly midnight, the storm's edge was was roughly 35 miles beyond NOLA, to the north.  Because hurricanes are very windy, it's dangerous to fly, or even drive, in them.

Also, they evacuated and the roads were outbound, both ways.  You coundn't drive South, into the city.  It was in the papers.

Can you understand the answer?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I read the letter again and note that it wasn't directly sent to the president either, or to Homeland Security, or to the FEMA director.  It went to FEMA office in Denton, TX, which I'd assume is protocol.  No cc's either.

So let's see, the Katrina's eye made landfall at 6:10 AM, which means that transprotation in was cut off about 8-12 hours before that.  So you had something less than 22 hours to do anything.

Why would transportation be completely cut off 8-12 hours before the eye of the hurricane hit the coast south of New Orleans?

In case you were not watchind the news, they had this very large hurricane called Katrina.  It was moving slowly, about 17 MPH, and was 135 miles in diameter.  The winds and rain began well before landfall of the eye. at roughly midnight, the storm's edge was was roughly 35 miles beyond NOLA, to the north.  Because hurricanes are very windy, it's dangerous to fly, or even drive, in them.

Also, they evacuated and the roads were outbound, both ways.  You coundn't drive South, into the city.  It was in the papers.

Can you understand the answer?

Good, lets keep our troops safe in Iraq instead.

[J. J.]

I read the letter again and note that it wasn't directly sent to the president either, or to Homeland Security, or to the FEMA director.  It went to FEMA office in Denton, TX, which I'd assume is protocol.  No cc's either.

So let's see, the Katrina's eye made landfall at 6:10 AM, which means that transprotation in was cut off about 8-12 hours before that.  So you had something less than 22 hours to do anything.

Why would transportation be completely cut off 8-12 hours before the eye of the hurricane hit the coast south of New Orleans?

In case you were not watching the news, they had this very large hurricane called Katrina.  It was moving slowly, about 17 MPH, and was 135 miles in diameter.  The winds and rain began well before landfall of the eye. at roughly midnight, the storm's edge was was roughly 35 miles beyond NOLA, to the north.  Because hurricanes are very windy, it's dangerous to fly, or even drive, in them.

Also, they evacuated and the roads were outbound, both ways.  You coundn't drive South, into the city.  It was in the papers.

Can you understand the answer?

Good, lets keep our troops safe in Iraq instead.

If you remember correctly, which I question you have the capability to do,  those troops were delayed by a sandstorm.

Of course getting Americans civilians, most of whom were poor and Black, out of harm's way were not Ray Nagin's plans, and you supported it.  You know, more Americans might have died because of Nagin failure to use those buses than died in Iraq, and you defend him. 

[J. J.]

Just to be clear, I didn't criticize Nagin on the buses until it became clear that:

1.  He had the resources to do this.

2.  He had the legal authority to do it (and to commandeer vehicles in general).

3.  The thought about it prior to Katrina hitting (it was discussed in the NOLA media).

That are many things that Nagin has been blamed for that he couldn't have done anything about.

I'd scream if he had put levee repair over saving people in the water, but that didn't happen.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Just to be clear, I didn't criticize Nagin on the buses until it became clear that:

1.  He had the resources to do this.

2.  He had the legal authority to do it (and to commandeer vehicles in general).

3.  The thought about it prior to Katrina hitting (it was discussed in the NOLA media).

That are many things that Nagin has been blamed for that he couldn't have done anything about.

I'd scream if he had put levee repair over saving people in the water, but that didn't happen.

Here's where he took the position that you're attacking. A lot of people were drowned by that flooding.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.levees/

[jimrtex]

Here's where he took the position that you're attacking. A lot of people were drowned by that flooding.

Col. Richard Wagenaar, who is the New Orleans district commander for the Army Corps of Engineers, said that they did try air dropping sandbags on Tuesday while the current was still flowing, and they just were carried off.

[MODU]

I read the letter again and note that it wasn't directly sent to the president either, or to Homeland Security, or to the FEMA director.  It went to FEMA office in Denton, TX, which I'd assume is protocol.  No cc's either.

So let's see, the Katrina's eye made landfall at 6:10 AM, which means that transprotation in was cut off about 8-12 hours before that.  So you had something less than 22 hours to do anything.

Why would transportation be completely cut off 8-12 hours before the eye of the hurricane hit the coast south of New Orleans?

In case you were not watchind the news, they had this very large hurricane called Katrina.  It was moving slowly, about 17 MPH, and was 135 miles in diameter.  The winds and rain began well before landfall of the eye. at roughly midnight, the storm's edge was was roughly 35 miles beyond NOLA, to the north.  Because hurricanes are very windy, it's dangerous to fly, or even drive, in them.

Also, they evacuated and the roads were outbound, both ways.  You coundn't drive South, into the city.  It was in the papers.

Can you understand the answer?

Good, lets keep our troops safe in Iraq instead.

Coming from the man who will claim "Straw Man" in a heartbeat . . .

[J. J.]

Just to be clear, I didn't criticize Nagin on the buses until it became clear that:

1.  He had the resources to do this.

2.  He had the legal authority to do it (and to commandeer vehicles in general).

3.  The thought about it prior to Katrina hitting (it was discussed in the NOLA media).

That are many things that Nagin has been blamed for that he couldn't have done anything about.

I'd scream if he had put levee repair over saving people in the water, but that didn't happen.

Here's where he took the position that you're attacking. A lot of people were drowned by that flooding.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.levees/

No, it is this position I'm attacking.  From the article:

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Nagin was more concerned about the cleanup timetable than saving the lives of his citizens, most of whom happened to be poor and Black in the area being flooded.  It is totally unconscionable that you still defend Nagin on this.

[MODU]

Definitely look forward to FEMA becoming the primary responder to multi-state emergencies in the future, rather than the support position which they fill now.  I say by December, a bill will pass through Congress indicating that in case of a regional disaster, state governors will yeild authority over the national guard and service departments in their states to FEMA to have a centralized response command.  It will hit the governors and advocates for state rights on the head like a brick, but that is the fruit yielded by the seeds Blanco sowed.

[J. J.]

Definitely look forward to FEMA becoming the primary responder to multi-state emergencies in the future, rather than the support position which they fill now.  I say by December, a bill will pass through Congress indicating that in case of a regional disaster, state governors will yeild authority over the national guard and service departments in their states to FEMA to have a centralized response command.  It will hit the governors and advocates for state rights on the head like a brick, but that is the fruit yielded by the seeds Blanco sowed.

Blanco could have done a lot better, but she did more right than wrong.  Bush could a lot better, but he did more right than wrong.

Nagin needed to do a lot better.  He did a lot more wrong than he did right.

[Sam Spade]

Definitely look forward to FEMA becoming the primary responder to multi-state emergencies in the future, rather than the support position which they fill now.  I say by December, a bill will pass through Congress indicating that in case of a regional disaster, state governors will yeild authority over the national guard and service departments in their states to FEMA to have a centralized response command.  It will hit the governors and advocates for state rights on the head like a brick, but that is the fruit yielded by the seeds Blanco sowed.

This is actually a very likely event to occur, imo.

[??????????]

Definitely look forward to FEMA becoming the primary responder to multi-state emergencies in the future, rather than the support position which they fill now.  I say by December, a bill will pass through Congress indicating that in case of a regional disaster, state governors will yeild authority over the national guard and service departments in their states to FEMA to have a centralized response command.  It will hit the governors and advocates for state rights on the head like a brick, but that is the fruit yielded by the seeds Blanco sowed.

This is actually a very likely event to occur, imo.

And the destruction of the constitution continues.

[MODU]

And the destruction of the constitution continues.

Oh, I dunno.  It does say to provide for the national wellfare, so doesn't coordinating multi-state relief count? 

[Sam Spade]

And the destruction of the constitution continues.

Oh, I dunno.  It does say to provide for the national wellfare, so doesn't coordinating multi-state relief count? 

Legally, of course.  Such a thing would be well within bounds, as long as it doesn't involve federal troops and doesn't involve federal troops taking over all functions of a local or state government (posse comitatus).

Service providers are merely cogs in the machinery.

[J. J.]

Just for the record, there were two breaches along the "improved" 17th Street Canal Levee.

[jimrtex]

Just for the record, there were two breaches along the "improved" 17th Street Canal Levee.

I don't think the southern one was a breach.  The canal is for drainage.  Water is pumped up and then drains by gravity towards the lake.  Under ordinary circumstances, the pumps can handle 1/2-inch of rain per hour.  After the water flooded east, the canal served as a dyke keeping the water from flowing west.  Eventually the water built up and flowed around the southern end of the canal.  There are apparently some road underpasses that permitted the water to flow towards the west.  When this was being discussed on WWL (a New Orleans TV station) the announcers couldn't understand where the flooding was because they were thinking it had to be west of the canal, but it was actually southwest of the southern end of the canal.  Jefferson Parish did build a barrier to stop the flooding, but it sounds more like something you could do with bulldozers and dumptrucks.

You'll have to scroll NW on the following images to see the area.

New Orleans Flooding

[muon2]

And the destruction of the constitution continues.

Oh, I dunno.  It does say to provide for the national wellfare, so doesn't coordinating multi-state relief count? 

Legally, of course.  Such a thing would be well within bounds, as long as it doesn't involve federal troops and doesn't involve federal troops taking over all functions of a local or state government (posse comitatus).

Service providers are merely cogs in the machinery.

There are already a number of exceptions to the posse comitatus act, and more can be added. It's an act of Congress, not the Constitution. Congress may amend or even repeal the act.

[??????????]

I can't believe that people here actually stand by and defend the idea that the federal government has the RIGHT to supersede a state and do what it wants within a states borders. The founders would be tossing in their graves.

[J. J.]

I can't believe that people here actually stand by and defend the idea that the federal government has the RIGHT to supersede a state and do what it wants within a states borders. The founders would be tossing in their graves.

In all fairness, it was George Washington who led troops into western PA.

[??????????]

I can't believe that people here actually stand by and defend the idea that the federal government has the RIGHT to supersede a state and do what it wants within a states borders. The founders would be tossing in their graves.

In all fairness, it was George Washington who led troops into western PA.

Yes, an inept leader committing an unconstitutional act.

[J. J.]

I can't believe that people here actually stand by and defend the idea that the federal government has the RIGHT to supersede a state and do what it wants within a states borders. The founders would be tossing in their graves.

In all fairness, it was George Washington who led troops into western PA.

Yes, an inept leader committing an unconstitutional act.

It worked.  :-)

[J. J.]

Here we can see the "preparations" and planning that Nagin and NOLA Emergency "Director" Terry Ebbert planned.

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9286534/page/3/

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9286534/page/4/