Bush had the authority to send troops to LA on Friday Aug 26th

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bush declared a state of emergency in Lousiana that day.

The United States National Response Plan makes that be an "Incident of National Significance." According to it, the President must be pro-active, and troops can be sent in without any local authorization.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/225729/7487


Forget the spin, Bush apoligists, there's no way out of this one. Bush could have sent in the troops 3 days before the hurricane.

[MaC]

Nobody cares Trolfern!

[??????????]

And nobody was certain on which way the storm was headed either on Friday before the storm. You don't even live in a hurricane prone area so you don't even understand how unpredictable they are. OK, lets say Bush sends thousands of troops into NOLA and suddenly the storm had swung east and slammed into Tampa. Would you still blame Bush for dragging feet? Get a clue and understand how unpredictable these things can be.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

And nobody was certain on which way the storm was headed either on Friday before the storm. You don't even live in a hurricane prone area so you don't even understand how unpredictable they are. OK, lets say Bush sends thousands of troops into NOLA and suddenly the storm had swung east and slammed into Tampa. Would you still blame Bush for dragging feet? Get a clue and understand how unpredictable these things can be.

As early as the 26th, it was clear it'd be hitting the central part of the Gulf Coast, probably somewhere near New Orleans. On the 28th, it was clearly going to hit New Orleans or just east of it. Around midnight that night, it was clearly going to go slightly east of New Orleans. It didn't hit for another 12 hours or so. Getting the troops in the right places isn't rocket science.

[Smash255]

One thing that could have been done is to have the troops mobilized along the gulf coast (further inland because you don't want them to get stuck in the worst of it either), but mobilized & oorganized in a way they can quickly respond to the hurricane no matter where it hit along the Gulf Coast

[??????????]

And nobody was certain on which way the storm was headed either on Friday before the storm. You don't even live in a hurricane prone area so you don't even understand how unpredictable they are. OK, lets say Bush sends thousands of troops into NOLA and suddenly the storm had swung east and slammed into Tampa. Would you still blame Bush for dragging feet? Get a clue and understand how unpredictable these things can be.

As early as the 26th, it was clear it'd be hitting the central part of the Gulf Coast, probably somewhere near New Orleans. On the 28th, it was clearly going to hit New Orleans or just east of it. Around midnight that night, it was clearly going to go slightly east of New Orleans. It didn't hit for another 12 hours or so. Getting the troops in the right places isn't rocket science.

And 6 hours before Charley made landfall it was supposed to hit Tampa head on but suddenly made a jog and hit Punta Gorda.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Charley

[J. J.]

And nobody was certain on which way the storm was headed either on Friday before the storm. You don't even live in a hurricane prone area so you don't even understand how unpredictable they are. OK, lets say Bush sends thousands of troops into NOLA and suddenly the storm had swung east and slammed into Tampa. Would you still blame Bush for dragging feet? Get a clue and understand how unpredictable these things can be.

As early as the 26th, it was clear it'd be hitting the central part of the Gulf Coast, probably somewhere near New Orleans. On the 28th, it was clearly going to hit New Orleans or just east of it. Around midnight that night, it was clearly going to go slightly east of New Orleans. It didn't hit for another 12 hours or so. Getting the troops in the right places isn't rocket science.

Well as a fellow Bush critic and Nogin defender resently pointed out:

2. It was not clear in the first days where the water would stop and what next will fail. There was a reasonable probability that he [nogin] would be cut off anywhere he chose to locate.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

And nobody was certain on which way the storm was headed either on Friday before the storm. You don't even live in a hurricane prone area so you don't even understand how unpredictable they are. OK, lets say Bush sends thousands of troops into NOLA and suddenly the storm had swung east and slammed into Tampa. Would you still blame Bush for dragging feet? Get a clue and understand how unpredictable these things can be.

As early as the 26th, it was clear it'd be hitting the central part of the Gulf Coast, probably somewhere near New Orleans. On the 28th, it was clearly going to hit New Orleans or just east of it. Around midnight that night, it was clearly going to go slightly east of New Orleans. It didn't hit for another 12 hours or so. Getting the troops in the right places isn't rocket science.

And 6 hours before Charley made landfall it was supposed to hit Tampa head on but suddenly made a jog and hit Punta Gorda.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Charley

What's important is that they are ready to go to the general right area. Those are a 1 hour, 38 minute drive apart. Obviously planes, boarts and helicopters would be used, too.

[Smash255]

And nobody was certain on which way the storm was headed either on Friday before the storm. You don't even live in a hurricane prone area so you don't even understand how unpredictable they are. OK, lets say Bush sends thousands of troops into NOLA and suddenly the storm had swung east and slammed into Tampa. Would you still blame Bush for dragging feet? Get a clue and understand how unpredictable these things can be.

As early as the 26th, it was clear it'd be hitting the central part of the Gulf Coast, probably somewhere near New Orleans. On the 28th, it was clearly going to hit New Orleans or just east of it. Around midnight that night, it was clearly going to go slightly east of New Orleans. It didn't hit for another 12 hours or so. Getting the troops in the right places isn't rocket science.

And 6 hours before Charley made landfall it was supposed to hit Tampa head on but suddenly made a jog and hit Punta Gorda.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Charley

Granted the hurricane could have jogged one way or another, however that doesn't mean you can't get the troops mobilized somewhere in the vicinity of where the storm was going to hit that way you could get there much quicker even if it hit Tampa & the troops were somewhere noth of New Orleans, the response would have been quicker

[J. J.]

Granted the hurricane could have jogged one way or another, however that doesn't mean you can't get the troops mobilized somewhere in the vicinity of where the storm was going to hit that way you could get there much quicker even if it hit Tampa & the troops were somewhere noth of New Orleans, the response would have been quicker

I agree to an extent.  First, however, you have to get them in; all traffic is outgoing (evacuations).  Second, you can't fly them in because of the weather.  Third, the governor doesn't authorize it (or call up her Guard).  Fourth, you don't know what equipment you'll need.  Backhoes are not needed yet.  Sixth, this was a big storm, geographically.  You going to need to keep the troops far enough away not any part of the storm. Seventh, as has been pointed out, the roards are blocked.

[MaC]

jfern, did you want the troops there before the hurricane started?  I know I certainly wouldn't want to put good troops in harms way.  At least wait until after the hurricane, so the troops don't suffer the same fate as the victims.

[Smash255]

Granted the hurricane could have jogged one way or another, however that doesn't mean you can't get the troops mobilized somewhere in the vicinity of where the storm was going to hit that way you could get there much quicker even if it hit Tampa & the troops were somewhere noth of New Orleans, the response would have been quicker

Thats why you put them quite a bit inland 100-200 miles or so should do it.  Far enough inland that they aren't endanger from the storm in any real capacity, not causing all that much in headaches as far as extra traffic goes because they are a bit inland, but at the same time ebeing close enough that they can easily respond to the disaster
I agree to an extent.  First, however, you have to get them in; all traffic is outgoing (evacuations).  Second, you can't fly them in because of the weather.  Third, the governor doesn't authorize it (or call up her Guard).  Fourth, you don't know what equipment you'll need.  Backhoes are not needed yet.  Sixth, this was a big storm, geographically.  You going to need to keep the troops far enough away not any part of the storm. Seventh, as has been pointed out, the roards are blocked.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

jfern, did you want the troops there before the hurricane started?  I know I certainly wouldn't want to put good troops in harms way.  At least wait until after the hurricane, so the troops don't suffer the same fate as the victims.

Send the troops to some place like Baton Rouge. Send in a few plane loads of supplies first, and use the planes to evacuate people the other direction. Have search and rescue helicopters and boats follow the hurricane at a safe distance.

[Citizen James]

Actually, aid had been authorized as of the 26th for Louisiana, and the 27th for Mississippi.  They had the federal authorization.  The problem was that the person running FEMA was a political appointee who has no clue on matters of disaster response, and he fumbled the ball big time on this one, costing thousands of American lives.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[/quote]

[Sam Spade]

The lack of understanding as to how hurricanes develop/move/hit areas, how hurricane/flood disaster relief and preparedness goes about, and about how sending troops to a disaster region actually works among many partisan-minded members of this forum is simply mindboggling.  You simply do not know what in the hell you're talking about.

This Monday-morning quarterbacking is simply driving me up the wall frankly.  I'm almost getting to the point of writing a John Ford/thefactor/angus rant and it won't be pretty.  Bill Clinton understands that the time for pointing fingers is later, right now we're still saving lives and I couldn't agree with him more.

Unfortunately for certain members of this forum, that message has not gotten through for days now.  It's like beating your head on a brick wall.

Look, FEMA chief Brown should be fired for letting anyone die because of lack of nourishment, dehydration, etc.  Chertoff should probably be fired as well, but the case against him is less strong.  You have a case here.  Bush's lack of leadership in the crisis in the early days and his picks to head these administrations are also valid criticisms.  There are plenty of other cases to be made at the state and local level, and some of them are much more heinous than anything I've said above.  But the time for this is not now, it's after were done saving lives.

However, Brown nor Bush nor Blanco nor anyone else caused the hurricane and did not cause the flood which occurred afterwards and which killed most of the people in this disaster, unfortunately.

And the preparations you are talking about would never have happened under any President, ever.  In fact, if any President ever did what you are suggesting and was a Republican, you would accuse him of trying to take over with a military coup anyway.

So really, STFU, all of you partisan-hangers-on (you know who you are), before I really let go as to how I feel.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bring it on. You don't have to have experienced 500 hurricanes to realize that Bush failed.

[MODU]

Ahhhh yes, mobilize the troops and put them right in the line of fire.  Yep, sounds smart.  Put them somewhere where their lives will be in danger and their response equipment/supplies destroyed.  OOOh, what else could we do?  I know, put all the helicopters out there too, since they wouldn't have the structures to protect them during the storm.

What a load of crap folks.  The best place for the response teams to stay leading up to the storm was at their home base.  Prep the teams and wait to see where the storm hits.  Once the storm clears, activate and move in.  DUH!

[MissCatholic]

Blanco asked for troops on tueday they came friday. conseravatives are saying the respnse was 24 hours too slow. so tueday to friday = 24 hours??

[MODU]

Blanco asked for troops on tueday they came friday. conseravatives are saying the respnse was 24 hours too slow. so tueday to friday = 24 hours??

She asked for them, if I understand the timeline correctly, after the levee failed.  Personally, I think they should have been activated before the levee failed.  Some FEMA and other services were already in place before that point.  Some national guard units should have already been patrolling the streets once the storm blew North since Bush had already declared the zone a national emergency.

[J. J.]

Ahhhh yes, mobilize the troops and put them right in the line of fire.  Yep, sounds smart.  Put them somewhere where their lives will be in danger and their response equipment/supplies destroyed.  OOOh, what else could we do?  I know, put all the helicopters out there too, since they wouldn't have the structures to protect them during the storm.

What a load of crap folks.  The best place for the response teams to stay leading up to the storm was at their home base.  Prep the teams and wait to see where the storm hits.  Once the storm clears, activate and move in.  DUH!

Mondu, Jfern is the same guy who didn't realize that all but one road in NOLA was closed and thought that we should put people on barges with no food, water, cover, or toilets.

You can't take anything he say seriously.  One way that it could have been worse would have been to out him in charge (though he might have actually stayed).

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Ahhhh yes, mobilize the troops and put them right in the line of fire.  Yep, sounds smart.  Put them somewhere where their lives will be in danger and their response equipment/supplies destroyed.  OOOh, what else could we do?  I know, put all the helicopters out there too, since they wouldn't have the structures to protect them during the storm.

What a load of crap folks.  The best place for the response teams to stay leading up to the storm was at their home base.  Prep the teams and wait to see where the storm hits.  Once the storm clears, activate and move in.  DUH!

Mondu, Jfern is the same guy who didn't realize that all but one road in NOLA was closed and thought that we should put people on barges with no food, water, cover, or toilets.

You can't take anything he say seriously.  One way that it could have been worse would have been to out him in charge (though he might have actually stayed).

J.J. is straw manning, as usual.

[John Dibble]

Ahhhh yes, mobilize the troops and put them right in the line of fire.  Yep, sounds smart.  Put them somewhere where their lives will be in danger and their response equipment/supplies destroyed.  OOOh, what else could we do?  I know, put all the helicopters out there too, since they wouldn't have the structures to protect them during the storm.

What a load of crap folks.  The best place for the response teams to stay leading up to the storm was at their home base.  Prep the teams and wait to see where the storm hits.  Once the storm clears, activate and move in.  DUH!

Mondu, Jfern is the same guy who didn't realize that all but one road in NOLA was closed and thought that we should put people on barges with no food, water, cover, or toilets.

You can't take anything he say seriously.  One way that it could have been worse would have been to out him in charge (though he might have actually stayed).

J.J. is straw manning, as usual.

[J. J.]

Ahhhh yes, mobilize the troops and put them right in the line of fire.  Yep, sounds smart.  Put them somewhere where their lives will be in danger and their response equipment/supplies destroyed.  OOOh, what else could we do?  I know, put all the helicopters out there too, since they wouldn't have the structures to protect them during the storm.

What a load of crap folks.  The best place for the response teams to stay leading up to the storm was at their home base.  Prep the teams and wait to see where the storm hits.  Once the storm clears, activate and move in.  DUH!

Mondu, Jfern is the same guy who didn't realize that all but one road in NOLA was closed and thought that we should put people on barges with no food, water, cover, or toilets.

You can't take anything he say seriously.  One way that it could have been worse would have been to out him in charge (though he might have actually stayed).

J.J. is straw manning, as usual.

Well, here is what you said:

There are still roads into New Orleans. San Francisco is surrounded on 3 sides by water, and those bridges didn't exist in 1906. Boats have been used in New Orleans. Sorry, your spinning isn't working.

Yes, there's at least one road, and it's probably of higher quality than any road in the country in 1906. No deep water vessels? So the big oil tankers can't come in, but other stuff can.

No, I am bluntly stunned by your absolute ignorance of the situation.  It's not me saying, "I disagree with your politics."  You don't even to search the internet because a number of us have been posting links about the situation on the ground.  You are completely clueless.

It's like you've seen nothing of actual news and are just reading left wing blogs. 

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Ahhhh yes, mobilize the troops and put them right in the line of fire.  Yep, sounds smart.  Put them somewhere where their lives will be in danger and their response equipment/supplies destroyed.  OOOh, what else could we do?  I know, put all the helicopters out there too, since they wouldn't have the structures to protect them during the storm.

What a load of crap folks.  The best place for the response teams to stay leading up to the storm was at their home base.  Prep the teams and wait to see where the storm hits.  Once the storm clears, activate and move in.  DUH!

Mondu, Jfern is the same guy who didn't realize that all but one road in NOLA was closed and thought that we should put people on barges with no food, water, cover, or toilets.

You can't take anything he say seriously.  One way that it could have been worse would have been to out him in charge (though he might have actually stayed).

J.J. is straw manning, as usual.

Well, here is what you said:

There are still roads into New Orleans. San Francisco is surrounded on 3 sides by water, and those bridges didn't exist in 1906. Boats have been used in New Orleans. Sorry, your spinning isn't working.

Yes, there's at least one road, and it's probably of higher quality than any road in the country in 1906. No deep water vessels? So the big oil tankers can't come in, but other stuff can.

No, I am bluntly stunned by your absolute ignorance of the situation.  It's not me saying, "I disagree with your politics."  You don't even to search the internet because a number of us have been posting links about the situation on the ground.  You are completely clueless.

It's like you've seen nothing of actual news and are just reading left wing blogs. 

I understand that NOLA wasn't exactly the most accessable place after the levees broke, which was several hours after the hurricane left, but there was still some way to get in. However, NOLA was much less flooded right after the hurricane left.

When the levees broke, Nagin ordered helicopters to drop 3000 pound sandbags there. However, someone ed up, and those helicopters ending up doing something else instead.

Sadly, Mr. 940-heads-and-60-tails-are-insigificant seems to have an extreme bias against anything I say.

[The Dowager Mod]

Pretty much everyone from federal down to local screwed up the first 48 hours or so.
blaming Bush is silly, believe me i would take a shot if it was valid.