THE LAST JEDI thoughts/reactions/reviews/mind-explosions (spoilers!!)

[Enduro]

I agree, it's a well done film, but also feels like an insult to the franchise as a whole. In my opinion, the fact that it's a good film is the worst part. I wish I could say what a horrible movie this was, but the only thing wrong with it is the disregard for continuity, and lack of vision for setting up a third film.
It ain't as bad as the prequels, or the teddy bear sequence, but it is my least favorite of the new films.

Actually, I think you hit what I see as the heart of the problem with some of the reactions thus far. There is a difference between finding TLJ a good or bad film and whether one personally likes it or dislikes it (as it's aptly showcased on your post), but it seems to me the rather vocal group of fans who thinks of TLJ's events as some sort of heresy are prepared to burn the whole ship down and brand the movie a disaster (or portray it as such as much as possible) just because they disapprove of the choices that were made.

Yes, thank you, one of other film that has done the same thing as this one is Captain America: Civil War. It's a good film, and the Russo Brothers did excellent direction, but I felt like they could've done a better job adapting the comic.
I don't think the choices will ruin the Star Wars franchise, but they do give J.J. a harder job to finish the trilogy. A lot harder than starting the trilogy and reintroducing movie goers to some of the most loved characters of all time was.
People who think that's gonna happen miss the fact that Star Wars survived Jar Jar Binks and Hayden's acting in the second episode.

[Kingpoleon]

I love Po’s role in this movie, as well as Kylo Ren’s character development. I feel like the Luke/Rey character build didn’t go over too well until she levitated the rocks.

That said, Finn and Rey were in the same First Order ship, correct? How did Kylo Ren survive when the Admiral split it in two?

[Thank you for being a friend...]

The first thing that I felt once the credits rolled was it was way too long.  I sat through "Titanic" and that was longer, but it didn't feel as long as this movie did.  It felt like there were three different movies in this one.

I liked it and I feel the need to see it again.  I totally missed that the boy used the force to move the broom to him, but I saw the Resistance ring.  I think this boy's going to be a major character in the 9th film.

The audience burst into applause when Snoke died at my showing too.  I thought that was the best part of the whole movie because you wanted Kylo Ren to turn over to the good side and for that moment he did.  I still don't see him as the villain, so there must be a way that Adam Driver plays him that makes you want to believe he can be good.

I don't think the new characters were of any use to the story.

I loved when Luke winked at C-3PO.  It's weird that C-3PO and R2D2 are still in it but they have been reduced to being barely there which is weird because they were big stars in the original trilogy and now they're not even being used in any way.

I feel this movie is actually going to be remembered as a distinctive part of the saga.  It has a truly tragic feeling throughout because basically its about all the good guys losing and yet it does feel hopeful at the end.

[Enduro]

Feel the same way about the droids, and I feel like Princess Leia is the only OT character that has been used to full effect in the new films.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Leia was phenomenal in this movie, I can't argue there. It's very clear she was meant to be a huge focus of Episode IX, which puts into stark focus the challenge they'll have crafting a satisfying conclusion.

Also, I've gotta say that I desperately hope the boy at the end is not an actual character in IX. To me, he's effective in TLJ because he represents the hope that's still alive. Having that actual kid become a focus would be weird and I think it would cheapen the message of that last shot. The whole point is that there could be many people out there like this kid.

[Frodo]

The film has its issues and it is clearly no Empire Strikes Back, but I find it a bit silly to see people attempting to brand it as a catastrophic failure in terms of performance (when it isn't) or even worse, as I've seen in other places, as if The Last Jedi was somehow worse than The Phantom Menace or done worse things than some of the most ridiculous moments in the entire saga.

One can question why they made certain decisions on where to move the story in TLJ (I liked the film and yet I strongly disagree with some of those creative choices), but come on, even the Original Trilogy has moments as ridiculous as a bunch of glorified teddy bears defeating what are supposed to be the best troops in the whole Galactic Empire.

Agreed -it's worth mentioning that thanks to this movie, it helped lift Disney to become the Box Office champion for a second consecutive year.  

[Mr. Smith]

I agree, it's a well done film, but also feels like an insult to the franchise as a whole. In my opinion, the fact that it's a good film is the worst part. I wish I could say what a horrible movie this was, but the only thing wrong with it is the disregard for continuity, and lack of vision for setting up a third film.
It ain't as bad as the prequels, or the teddy bear sequence, but it is my least favorite of the new films.

Actually, I think you hit what I see as the heart of the problem with some of the reactions thus far. There is a difference between finding TLJ a good or bad film and whether one personally likes it or dislikes it (as it's aptly showcased on your post), but it seems to me the rather vocal group of fans who thinks of TLJ's events as some sort of heresy are prepared to burn the whole ship down and brand the movie a disaster (or portray it as such as much as possible) just because they disapprove of the choices that were made.

I see as both a bad film AND I dislike it.

Phantom Menace is mediocre overall, but there are enough parts I like about to defend it to the bitter end.

The film has its issues and it is clearly no Empire Strikes Back, but I find it a bit silly to see people attempting to brand it as a catastrophic failure in terms of performance (when it isn't) or even worse, as I've seen in other places, as if The Last Jedi was somehow worse than The Phantom Menace or done worse things than some of the most ridiculous moments in the entire saga.

One can question why they made certain decisions on where to move the story in TLJ (I liked the film and yet I strongly disagree with some of those creative choices), but come on, even the Original Trilogy has moments as ridiculous as a bunch of glorified teddy bears defeating what are supposed to be the best troops in the whole Galactic Empire.

It is. 


And I hate to say it, but the union dispute Maz Kanata was involved in, yeah that would've been more interesting.

Also, Stormtroopers were ridiculous long before the Ewoks showed up as is, actually they got worse and worse as the OT progressed.

[Lumine]

Worse than The Phantom Menace? Really? Worse than Jar-Jar, the Neimodians, the whole midiclorian issue, the criminal waste of a character in Darth Maul, the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

Well, we'll have to disagree there.

[Mr. Smith]

Worse than The Phantom Menace? Really? Worse than Jar-Jar, the Neimodians, the whole midiclorian issue, the criminal waste of a character in Darth Maul, the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

Well, we'll have to disagree there.

Before stopping you there, just consider this:

Darth Maul, underused as he was (though he does return in The Clone Wars and Rebels,...I digress), he was in 10 minutes discovered to be: loyal to a fault to his Master, arrogant and boastful of his force skills, pragmatic, rash and impatient. Most of it through no dialogue at all.

What exactly was learned about Snoke, who was btw hinted at being an overarching Big Bad who corrupted Kylo Ren in the first place?  What was learned of him? What was learned about Admiral Holdu?

[Antonio the Sixth]

the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

The detail and attention given to the geopolitical (cosmopolitical?) context is by far one of the greatest and most admirable things about the prequels, and disparaging it is a surefire way of making me want to disregard any opinion you have about Star Wars.

[Mr. Smith]

the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

The detail and attention given to the geopolitical (cosmopolitical?) context is by far one of the greatest and most admirable things about the prequels, and disparaging it is a surefire way of making me want to disregard any opinion you have about Star Wars.

Agreed, though it could've been better worded and used more as background element.

[Lumine]

the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

The detail and attention given to the geopolitical (cosmopolitical?) context is by far one of the greatest and most admirable things about the prequels, and disparaging it is a surefire way of making me want to disregard any opinion you have about Star Wars.

Agreed, though it could've been better worded and used more as background element.

Evidently establishing a context is important (the sequel trilogy is remarklably bad at this, no complaint there), but I struggle to see how the context that was established in TPM was well handled or well used. So much wasted potential...

It got a lot better in AOTC and ROTS, but it still had its issues.

[SoLongAtlas]

the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

The detail and attention given to the geopolitical (cosmopolitical?) context is by far one of the greatest and most admirable things about the prequels, and disparaging it is a surefire way of making me want to disregard any opinion you have about Star Wars.

Agreed, though it could've been better worded and used more as background element.

Evidently establishing a context is important (the sequel trilogy is remarklably bad at this, no complaint there), but I struggle to see how the context that was established in TPM was well handled or well used. So much wasted potential...

It got a lot better in AOTC and ROTS, but it still had its issues.

That's not even the direct text from the crawl, this is: "The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute. ..." It very clearly shows what is happening politically in the galaxy. The ST, focuses too much on the characters and doesn't explain the development of the New Republic/Resistance and the First Order very well in-movie, although it does explain this in the new books.

[Antonio the Sixth]

the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

The detail and attention given to the geopolitical (cosmopolitical?) context is by far one of the greatest and most admirable things about the prequels, and disparaging it is a surefire way of making me want to disregard any opinion you have about Star Wars.

Agreed, though it could've been better worded and used more as background element.

Evidently establishing a context is important (the sequel trilogy is remarklably bad at this, no complaint there), but I struggle to see how the context that was established in TPM was well handled or well used. So much wasted potential...

It got a lot better in AOTC and ROTS, but it still had its issues.

That's not even the direct text from the crawl, this is: "The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute. ..." It very clearly shows what is happening politically in the galaxy. The ST, focuses too much on the characters and doesn't explain the development of the New Republic/Resistance and the First Order very well in-movie, although it does explain this in the new books.

Yeah, but you shouldn't have to read side-stories to get the context of what's actually going on in your main story. It really wouldn't have taken that much to give us a sense of what happened beyond "BOOM, the Republic is gone, back to square 1 except with a giant with a stupid-sounding name instead of Palpatine and an emo kid instead of Darth Vader".

As for the prequels, of course they have their own issues, but at least I can say that on paper their plot sounds very solid (arguably even better than the original). All the problems are in the execution.

[anvi]

I finally saw it tonight.  In general, I liked it, though not my favourite Star Wars film,--that distinction still belonging to Empire first and Sith second.  I liked the developments of the Luke and Kylo characters.  I actually thought there was a lot of continuity, even repetition, in the plot line between this film and others--in fact I might have been even happier had they tried to do a little more differently.  I'm left a little puzzled still, after Force Awakens and Last Jedi, as to how Ray has become so powerful with so little training.  Anyway, I sort of liked the theme being developed that keeping hope alive never depends on a final victory, but holding the forces of darkness at bay--it's at least an improvement to the often too-shallow moral dualism of the first trilogy.  Anyway, though I didn't feel as strongly about it as some of my other friends who, like me, went to the premiers of Episode IV in '77, I did feel some satisfaction at seeing the story of Luke come to its conclusion after 40 years. 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I will say that the complaints about Snoke dying before the end of this trilogy and before we learn who he is are ludicrous.  Snoke's role in VII&VIII is pretty much the same as the then unnamed Emperor's in V&VI.  It's only because of the prequels that we know anything about the Emperor's backstory. Besides, never worry.  I'm sure somewhere deep in the bowels of the Mouse that Roars they are working on a Snoke movie or miniseries to satisfy those who need to know every detail about a character's backstory.  For all we know, Rian Johnson's trilogy could be a Smoke trilogy. (Not that I think it likely, but a trilogy exploring the rise of the New Order is quite possible.)

[anvi]

Snoke's early death in the film seemed to me an attempt to underline what a unique character Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is, and to take the series to a stage beyond the Jedi-Sith rivalry.  Here is one change in direction that is being made with TLJ, and it is an important one in the series.  We learn in The Last Jedi that Kylo Ren trained with Luke Skywalker, but when Skywalker perceived the combined power and darkness in him, Luke was tempted to kill him and Kylo had to flee.  (This is reminiscent, in some respects, of the Darth Siddious killing Darth Plagus the Wise in his sleep, but from the Jedi perspective, not trying to gain complete power as in Siddeous' case, but trying to prevent complete power, which Luke says was his reason for wanting to slay Ben.)  Kylo, though conflicted in will, has already become so powerful that he, effectively, needs no more training.  Snoke actually underestimates Kylo Ren and pays for it with his life.  Revealingly, Kylo, trying to persuade Rey to turn to the dark side, repeatedly says that the past has to be let go of, and specifically this means ending the Jedi and Sith orders.  So, anyway, I didn't see Snoke's early departure as a problem at all for the way the story is developing; Snoke dies and Luke demystifies the Jedi order and burns all its books, even sacrificing himself at the end of the film, precisely so that Kylo and Rey--who is not really the product of Jedi training either and, as Kylo tells her, is not really part of the foregoing story--can set about, in the coming episodes, to make something new--a new rivalry in the Force, a new search for balance.  To me, Snoke's early death was completely coherent--it's another move the series is making to go beyond the centuries-old Jedi-Sith rivalry.  When Snoke dies, the Sith are suddenly out of the picture, and with Skywalker's death, the Jedi are out of it too (hence the name of the episode).

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

He didn't burn the books.  Rey (or someone) had already put them aboard the Millennium Falcon.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Snoke's early death in the film seemed to me an attempt to underline what a unique character Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is, and to take the series to a stage beyond the Jedi-Sith rivalry.  Here is one change in direction that is being made with TLJ, and it is an important one in the series.  We learn in The Last Jedi that Kylo Ren trained with Luke Skywalker, but when Skywalker perceived the combined power and darkness in him, Luke was tempted to kill him and Kylo had to flee.  (This is reminiscent, in some respects, of the Darth Siddious killing Darth Plagus the Wise in his sleep, but from the Jedi perspective, not trying to gain complete power as in Siddeous' case, but trying to prevent complete power, which Luke says was his reason for wanting to slay Ben.)  Kylo, though conflicted in will, has already become so powerful that he, effectively, needs no more training.  Snoke actually underestimates Kylo Ren and pays for it with his life.  Revealingly, Kylo, trying to persuade Rey to turn to the dark side, repeatedly says that the past has to be let go of, and specifically this means ending the Jedi and Sith orders.  So, anyway, I didn't see Snoke's early departure as a problem at all for the way the story is developing; Snoke dies and Luke demystifies the Jedi order and burns all its books, even sacrificing himself at the end of the film, precisely so that Kylo and Rey--who is not really the product of Jedi training either and, as Kylo tells her, is not really part of the foregoing story--can set about, in the coming episodes, to make something new--a new rivalry in the Force, a new search for balance.  To me, Snoke's early death was completely coherent--it's another move the series is making to go beyond the centuries-old Jedi-Sith rivalry.  When Snoke dies, the Sith are suddenly out of the picture, and with Skywalker's death, the Jedi are out of it too (hence the name of the episode).

And who is the narrative antagonist for the next film?  Kylo Ren won't work nor will just randomly saying "hey this new guy you've never heard of is now suddenly important."

[anvi]

Snoke's early death in the film seemed to me an attempt to underline what a unique character Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is, and to take the series to a stage beyond the Jedi-Sith rivalry.  Here is one change in direction that is being made with TLJ, and it is an important one in the series.  We learn in The Last Jedi that Kylo Ren trained with Luke Skywalker, but when Skywalker perceived the combined power and darkness in him, Luke was tempted to kill him and Kylo had to flee.  (This is reminiscent, in some respects, of the Darth Siddious killing Darth Plagus the Wise in his sleep, but from the Jedi perspective, not trying to gain complete power as in Siddeous' case, but trying to prevent complete power, which Luke says was his reason for wanting to slay Ben.)  Kylo, though conflicted in will, has already become so powerful that he, effectively, needs no more training.  Snoke actually underestimates Kylo Ren and pays for it with his life.  Revealingly, Kylo, trying to persuade Rey to turn to the dark side, repeatedly says that the past has to be let go of, and specifically this means ending the Jedi and Sith orders.  So, anyway, I didn't see Snoke's early departure as a problem at all for the way the story is developing; Snoke dies and Luke demystifies the Jedi order and burns all its books, even sacrificing himself at the end of the film, precisely so that Kylo and Rey--who is not really the product of Jedi training either and, as Kylo tells her, is not really part of the foregoing story--can set about, in the coming episodes, to make something new--a new rivalry in the Force, a new search for balance.  To me, Snoke's early death was completely coherent--it's another move the series is making to go beyond the centuries-old Jedi-Sith rivalry.  When Snoke dies, the Sith are suddenly out of the picture, and with Skywalker's death, the Jedi are out of it too (hence the name of the episode).

And who is the narrative antagonist for the next film?  Kylo Ren won't work nor will just randomly saying "hey this new guy you've never heard of is now suddenly important."

Why won't Kylo Ren work?  The next film will be the third one in which he is featured.

[politicallefty]

the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

The detail and attention given to the geopolitical (cosmopolitical?) context is by far one of the greatest and most admirable things about the prequels, and disparaging it is a surefire way of making me want to disregard any opinion you have about Star Wars.

I definitely have to agree with you there. I think that's been a major fault of the new trilogy and I think it was especially a major fault with this movie. It's more character driven as opposed to plot driven (TLJ still succeeds due to giants like Leia and Luke). In TFA, for the most part, the First Order does not seem to be particularly strong (apart from Starkiller Base). It's basically a cold war until the Hosnian system is destroyed. And yet, in TLJ, taking place virtually immediately after TFA, the New Republic and its Resistance defenders seem to be in a far worse state than the Rebellion ever was. I don't see how they get from a cold war state to one side being nearly completely decimated.

Prequel hatred irritates me because it's always the same and it's ultimately revisionist history. I read the major boards back in 2002 and 2005 for Episodes II and III. ROTS was especially crazy popular back then, a lot of people putting it on top in front of even Episode V. I think the main problem with the prequels is that Episode I is almost superfluous. A lot of Episode II probably should have been in Episode I. Even as it was though, I still really like AOTC though. I like that it builds up the Clone Wars and really sets the stage for how Palpatine was going to become absolute ruler.

[Antonio the Sixth]

the "taxation to outlying star systems"?

The detail and attention given to the geopolitical (cosmopolitical?) context is by far one of the greatest and most admirable things about the prequels, and disparaging it is a surefire way of making me want to disregard any opinion you have about Star Wars.

I definitely have to agree with you there. I think that's been a major fault of the new trilogy and I think it was especially a major fault with this movie. It's more character driven as opposed to plot driven (TLJ still succeeds due to giants like Leia and Luke). In TFA, for the most part, the First Order does not seem to be particularly strong (apart from Starkiller Base). It's basically a cold war until the Hosnian system is destroyed. And yet, in TLJ, taking place virtually immediately after TFA, the New Republic and its Resistance defenders seem to be in a far worse state than the Rebellion ever was. I don't see how they get from a cold war state to one side being nearly completely decimated.

Prequel hatred irritates me because it's always the same and it's ultimately revisionist history. I read the major boards back in 2002 and 2005 for Episodes II and III. ROTS was especially crazy popular back then, a lot of people putting it on top in front of even Episode V. I think the main problem with the prequels is that Episode I is almost superfluous. A lot of Episode II probably should have been in Episode I. Even as it was though, I still really like AOTC though. I like that it builds up the Clone Wars and really sets the stage for how Palpatine was going to become absolute ruler.

I always thought that the first two prequels were clearly inferior to the originals (although not without their redeeming qualities), but that ROTS was on par with them if not better. I stand by that judgment.

[Sestak]

Honestly, I thought that as a movie, TLJ was pretty good.

But later, I realized how gamebreaking (filmbreaking?) some of the new concepts they added are to the SW universe.

-The lightspeed ram (could have basically trivialized any space fight, including against the death star)
-Force ghosts being able to fight and damage things (Would have decidedly tilted the final fight on the Death Star in Ep. VII)
-Being able to fly through space with the force (Why did Anakin and Kenobi bother with starfighters at the start of Ep. III if they could just fly in and rescue Palpatine?)
-Being able to project yourself long distance with the force

[Mr. Morden]

-Force ghosts being able to fight and damage things (Would have decidedly tilted the final fight on the Death Star in Ep. VII)

IIRC, in Lucas's initial draft of Revenge of the Jedi (before Kasdan did his re-writes), ghost-Obi-Wan and ghost-Yoda both help Luke in his showdown with Vader and The Emperor.

[Virginiá]

-The lightspeed ram (could have basically trivialized any space fight, including against the death star)

I've been wondering about this for a while. It's plausible that a death star-like space station could have shields to protect itself from it, but less plausible with smaller battleships.

I take it that this is one of those things that is possible, but that we won't see as often as we would if the Star Wars universe was based more on what would happen in reality. There are a lot of things in Star Wars like this. For instance, why aren't AI-controlled starfighters used more often? Even in the prequels, it didn't really add up. A galaxy that technologically advanced could easily make fighters that piloted themselves and didn't rely on some command and control ship like the droid army.

Or what about any number of the laser rifles - why do some of them act like regular Earth rifles? Like in Rogue One, where he had this weapon that seemed like a mini-gun/shotgun hybrid.

Why are thermonuclear or even anti-matter bombs not used wayyy more (or at all)? At the end of TLJ, why bother trying to break open the blast door when they could just dropped a few anti-matter bombs with the explosive power of a 500 megaton nuclear warhead? It would have blown a crater in the planet's mantle and wiped out the resistance/rebellion/whatever.

Why in TLJ did they have "bomber" ships dropping gravity bombs when there was no gravity?


It just goes on and on like this lol. I love Star Wars, but it requires a huge suspension of belief to watch it. They try and make so much of the Star Wars universe/technology "human/earth-like" even when it absolutely should not be.

-Being able to fly through space with the force (Why did Anakin and Kenobi bother with starfighters at the start of Ep. III if they could just fly in and rescue Palpatine?)

She could move but she was still being affected by the coldness of space. So they'd need special suits to just be in space. Plus, it's not practical in the middle of a military engagement. In a ship, they could afford to get hit a number of times without hurting them directly. Without a ship, one hit and they'd likely die.

-Being able to project yourself long distance with the force

To be fair, it seemed like the power required to do that ended up killing him. Or, perhaps he would have survived but made himself into a force ghost for whatever reason? I'm not sure.