THE LAST JEDI thoughts/reactions/reviews/mind-explosions (spoilers!!)

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I had much higher hopes for Snoke but I suppose ot was necessary and now Johnson  has freed JJ Abrams from having to repeat the whole Emperor/Vader story arch.

overall is say 4/5

From what I’ve read, it kinda sounds like Johnson really hated Force Awakens and wanted to retcon away as much of that movie as possible.

[Mr. Morden]

I had much higher hopes for Snoke but I suppose ot was necessary and now Johnson  has freed JJ Abrams from having to repeat the whole Emperor/Vader story arch.

overall is say 4/5

From what I’ve read, it kinda sounds like Johnson really hated Force Awakens and wanted to retcon away as much of that movie as possible.

This is why it's dumb to give the different films in a trilogy like this to different directors, with each of them having this level of creative freedom.  If you're going to do a trilogy with a continuous storyline, then at the very least have one person first write out an outline of the overarching story as a guidepost, so the writers of each instalment know what they're doing.  As it is, they're apparently making it up as they go along, and it shows.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I had much higher hopes for Snoke but I suppose ot was necessary and now Johnson  has freed JJ Abrams from having to repeat the whole Emperor/Vader story arch.

overall is say 4/5

From what I’ve read, it kinda sounds like Johnson really hated Force Awakens and wanted to retcon away as much of that movie as possible.

I would have preferred a continuation of the trajectory of the Force Awakens, well-executed with strong characters, than a trilogy that was blown up two-thirds of the way through with little left to work with for the closing chapter.

We now have a conclusion that will be based around Finn, Poe, Rose, Rey, Hux, and Ren. And no resistance force whatsoever. What a bumbling group of imbeciles. A love triangle? Rey trying to "turn" Ren? Meh. We can't get a believable large-scale, galactic battle against the First Order because there's no opposition left.

So, inevitably, we'll get new characters introduced to us that we're told are important. Except because they weren't really part of the build-up of the last two episodes, it'll feel weird as hell to see, especially in a "concluding" film. We're in for a dissatisfying and disconnected end, thanks mostly to Johnson's selfishness.

[MasterJedi]

I had much higher hopes for Snoke but I suppose ot was necessary and now Johnson  has freed JJ Abrams from having to repeat the whole Emperor/Vader story arch.

overall is say 4/5

From what I’ve read, it kinda sounds like Johnson really hated Force Awakens and wanted to retcon away as much of that movie as possible.

I would have preferred a continuation of the trajectory of the Force Awakens, well-executed with strong characters, than a trilogy that was blown up two-thirds of the way through with little left to work with for the closing chapter.

We now have a conclusion that will be based around Finn, Poe, Rose, Rey, Hux, and Ren. And no resistance force whatsoever. What a bumbling group of imbeciles. A love triangle? Rey trying to "turn" Ren? Meh. We can't get a believable large-scale, galactic battle against the First Order because there's no opposition left.

So, inevitably, we'll get new characters introduced to us that we're told are important. Except because they weren't really part of the build-up of the last two episodes, it'll feel weird as hell to see, especially in a "concluding" film. We're in for a dissatisfying and disconnected end, thanks mostly to Johnson's selfishness.

Just an FYI it's Ben, not Ren for his actual name. Ben Solo, he calls himself Kylo Ren though, not his real name.

[KingSweden]

I enjoyed it, even if a bit uneven. As with TFA Rey and Kylo remain the best parts, and damn did Mark Hamill improve as an actor over the last forty years. That shot of him staring at a sunset in the distance, like he did once long ago, then becoming one with the Force... that’s some lyrical stuff.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I had much higher hopes for Snoke but I suppose ot was necessary and now Johnson  has freed JJ Abrams from having to repeat the whole Emperor/Vader story arch.

overall is say 4/5

From what I’ve read, it kinda sounds like Johnson really hated Force Awakens and wanted to retcon away as much of that movie as possible.

I would have preferred a continuation of the trajectory of the Force Awakens, well-executed with strong characters, than a trilogy that was blown up two-thirds of the way through with little left to work with for the closing chapter.

We now have a conclusion that will be based around Finn, Poe, Rose, Rey, Hux, and Ren. And no resistance force whatsoever. What a bumbling group of imbeciles. A love triangle? Rey trying to "turn" Ren? Meh. We can't get a believable large-scale, galactic battle against the First Order because there's no opposition left.

So, inevitably, we'll get new characters introduced to us that we're told are important. Except because they weren't really part of the build-up of the last two episodes, it'll feel weird as hell to see, especially in a "concluding" film. We're in for a dissatisfying and disconnected end, thanks mostly to Johnson's selfishness.

Just an FYI it's Ben, not Ren for his actual name. Ben Solo, he calls himself Kylo Ren though, not his real name.

Yeah, I know.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Moving this post over here b/c it fits this thread better:

The Last Jedi - while very well directed on a technical level even for a Star Wars film - is the worst film in the history of the franchise (yes, even worse than the prequels with only Clone Wars being in even the same ballpark) and is just as poorly written as the prequels (to the point that its long-term legacy will likely be “the one that ruined Luke Skywalker” the way Return of the Jedi is remembered by some as “the one where teddy bears with slingshots defeat the empire”)...but in a different way.  

Say what you will about the prequels (and I could say a lot, none of it good), but they knew where they were going narratively and were pieces of the same story (albeit a lame and horribly executed one).  I challenge anyone who has seen Force Awakens and Last Jedi to make a strong argument that those two movies were narratively and thematically consistent stories which fit together like two pieces of an organic whole.  For all its faults, Force Awakens came first and Rian Johnson should’ve tried to work with the story Abrams created while still doing something new with it that respected the source material.  A great example of how to do this is what James Cameron did with Aliens, he respected the internal mythology of Alien, but he also did something completely different with the material resulting in a true cinematic classic that far surpassed Alien without retconning or attempting to erase Ridley Scott’s film.  You can still enjoy Aliens even if you liked Alien much better.  I doubt fans of Force Awakens will find much to like in Last Jedi.

The Last Jedi was essentially Rian Johnson going “I don’t like the internal mythology Abrams created in Force Awakens, so I’m going to blow it up in the trilogy’s middle chapter and leave the unlucky screenwriter for Episode IX to pick up the pieces/create a new setup from scratch while also concluding an already thematically inconsistent trilogy in one movie.  Oh and I’m not going to give any remotely satisfying answers to any of the questions our internal mythology has already established either.”  I’d argue that this isn’t subverting expectations so much as just the cinematic equivalent of a petulant child flipping over the monopoly board b/c he’s mad someone else got to go first.

I’m not some huge Force Awakens fan either (Empire Strikes Back is the only Star Wars film I personally consider to be a good movie and the only ones that aren’t really bad movies imo are A New Hope and Empire), but from everything I’ve read Last Jedi sounds like it’s just FUBAR, I suspect there will be a pretty big drop-off at the box office once word of mouth spreads.

TL; DR: Last Jedi is basically a giant middle finger to anyone who liked Force Awakens and basically ruined Luke Skywalker as a character (to say how would involve spoilers).  There’s a big difference between subverting expectations (ex: killing off the “lead” in Psycho, The Red Wedding, etc) and simply giving the finger to anyone who liked the material you’re making sequal to/“adapting” by simply sh!tting all over it (ex: David Fincher erasing Aliens by killing Hicks, Newt, and Bishop right at the start of Alien 3, the glorified fanfic known as GoT seasons 6 & 7, etc).  While I know what happens, I don’t particularly care for Star Wars in general, but I know how frustrating it is when material one really likes (in my case Aliens and the ASOIAF books) is basically stripped of what made it good in the first place.  Johnson’s job was to build on Abrams internal mythology, not to shred it in a cinematic temper-tantrum and then leave someone else to pick up the pieces.  OTOH, it’s getting great critical reviews for some reason, so maybe I’m missing something.

Oh and two and a half hours is waaaaaaaaaay too long for a Star Wars movie.  Idk, but I suspect one big criticism of Last Jedi will be that it meandered a lot in the middle/got bogged down in overly complicated/unnecessary sideplots.  

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I actually enjoyed the Luke/Ben plotline, especially because it demonstrated forcefully (pun intended) how the truths we cling to depend upon our points of view. It could've been done better, but it wasn't badly done. It also seems likely that Snoke did to Luke then what he did to Rey, play with his perception of reality. Indeed, playing with reality is exactly what this movie was all about. All the major characters suffered from faulty vision.

[Blue3]

I had much higher hopes for Snoke but I suppose ot was necessary and now Johnson  has freed JJ Abrams from having to repeat the whole Emperor/Vader story arch.

overall is say 4/5

From what I’ve read, it kinda sounds like Johnson really hated Force Awakens and wanted to retcon away as much of that movie as possible.

This is a new myth that's forming.

Rian helped write TFA, even coming up with the last scene with Luke/Rey at the end of TFA.

[Green Line]

It sucked.  I was so disspointed.  Riann Johnson clearly had a seething hatred from TFA and decided to do a big FU to every plot point and character from it.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I had much higher hopes for Snoke but I suppose ot was necessary and now Johnson  has freed JJ Abrams from having to repeat the whole Emperor/Vader story arch.

overall is say 4/5

From what I’ve read, it kinda sounds like Johnson really hated Force Awakens and wanted to retcon away as much of that movie as possible.

This is a new myth that's forming.

Rian helped write TFA, even coming up with the last scene with Luke/Rey at the end of TFA.

He wasn’t given a screenwriting or even “story by” co-credit, so he couldn’t have helped too much...  Also, this isn’t a new mythology, that requires some measure of internal consistency. 

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The Last Jedi was essentially Rian Johnson going “I don’t like the internal mythology Abrams created in Force Awakens, so I’m going to blow it up in the trilogy’s middle chapter and leave the unlucky screenwriter for Episode IX to pick up the pieces/create a new setup from scratch while also concluding an already thematically inconsistent trilogy in one movie.  Oh and I’m not going to give any remotely satisfying answers to any of the questions our internal mythology has already established either.”  I’d argue that this isn’t subverting expectations so much as just the cinematic equivalent of a petulant child flipping over the monopoly board b/c he’s mad someone else got to go first.

Good post and I would say more than that: The Last Jedi is essentially Rian Johnson going "let's subvert all of these Star Wars tropes without thought as to whether it adds up to a coherent film".

Poe does maverick heroic stuff only to makes things worse and get slapped down by the female commander
Finn and Rose go on an 'infiltrate the enemy base' mission (Episode IV) but fail and get captured
Benicio Del Toro's character isn't the Han Solo 'smuggler with a heart of gold' but an amoral guy who flat-out betrays the heroes
Finn tries the heroic sacrifice to stop the battering cannon but Rose saves his life at the last minute and the cannon goes off
Luke is supposed to train Rey in the Force (like Yoda in Episode V) but he has cut himself off from the Force and refuses to teach her
Rey is actually more powerful than her supposed mentor and Luke has nothing to teach her before she flies off herself
Rey's parents are revealed not to be important characters but junk-dealing nobodies
Rey gives herself up as captured to turn Kylo ala Luke/Vader but fails to turn him to the light
The BBEG Snoke dies without ceremony halfway through the trilogy
Oh and Leia has her 'death scene' which she survives using the Force

The problem is that none of these subversions make sense for either the character or the storyline as a whole. They're all shoehorned in together 'just because'.

Finn as a bumbling sidekick doesn't work and makes his character irrelevant and pathetic
Rose and Benicio Del Toro's characters are likewise completely irrelevant to the film's main plot  
Poe should have been imprisoned or executed for leading a violent mutiny at gunpoint but apparently no-one in the Resistance cares about his armed insurrection against the commanding officer Admiral Holdo
Rey is too powerful to an absurd degree and also tries to save Kylo someone who in TFA tried to kill her for almost no reason - the force bond is cheap
Luke sh**ts on the entire tradition of the Jedi Order and the Jedi who refused to kill Darth Vader was caught thinking about whether he should kill Ben Solo or not
Snoke killed off with *zero* backstory. He will now forever remain a total mystery
Leia has mastered extremely powerful Force abilities with zero training

And this is without touching on the bizarre plot. The Last Jedi is too concerned with 'making a point' rather than making a good coherent film with strong characters or a plot that works.  

[Koharu]

I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but I absolutely loved The Last Jedi. It was fantastic. I keep seeing people talk about "plot holes" and not answering the questions from TFA, and I just have to wonder what movie those folks saw, because this movie fit perfectly with what we've already seen. I've also not heard anyone elaborate on what these "plot holes" actually are, either, so I'm inclined to respond with Vizzini's most quoted line.

It was so Very Star Wars; not just imitating the spirit of the original trilogy, but truly capturing it and making it real for a new generation. There was hope despite devastating set-backs. There was fun and joy amidst loss. It was a small band of heroes surviving despite impossible odds, just like the original series.

It also is what is necessary for the universe to continue. The Skywalkers and Solos are not all there is to the galaxy. This helped open the way for more stories about all kinds of different characters from all over the galaxy. Instead of narrowing the trajectory of the universe, it widened it.

This is now my favorite Star Wars movie. I could have done without the porgs. I did love all the muppet usage, though. ❤

[Blue3]

George Lucas's Episode 7 revealed:

https://geektyrant.com/news/concept-art-revealed-for-george-lucas-vision-of-the-jedi-temple-for-star-wars-episode-vii

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[CatoMinor]

While some of the choices Johnson made may seem odd, or like a giant FU to Abrams, I do think they fundamentally make sense. The events of the Force Awaken set up perfectly for The Last Jedi to be a much darker Empire Strikes Back, and Johnson was able to give us that while not being a repeat of Empire. In Empire the rebels retreat from Hoth, Han gets captures, and Luke loses a hand. We are left with a feeling of "Well the heroes are down but not out!" Meanwhile in VIII the First Order has annihilated the New Republic in it's entirety, destroyed the resistance's fleet in it's entirety, killed most of the leadership including Akbar (RIP) in one shot, and Luke has now passed on. We are left with what should be the darkest Star Wars movie since Revenge of the Sith, but Johnson was able to beautifully spin this darkness into hope similar to Rogue One, with the sacrifice of the many keeping the light alive.

The only thing I feel that could have made this better was if it was Leia who drove the flagship into the heart of Snoke's ship. Now instead we will have to likely be saddened by finding out how Leia dies in the opening crawl of IV.   

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It's fairly obvious that the intention was always going to be one of the big three dying in each movie, so other than having to shoehorn in some contingency footage rather than being able to get custom shots for Episode IX, Carrie's death doesn't affect much.

[CatoMinor]

It's fairly obvious that the intention was always going to be one of the big three dying in each movie, so other than having to shoehorn in some contingency footage rather than being able to get custom shots for Episode IX, Carrie's death doesn't affect much.

Well I can't really imagine an Ep IX where Leia made it through, the fact that she passed before filming even began makes me feel like they are going to have to shoe horn her being killed into the opening crawl describing the year or two in between these films as a new Resistance alliance rising in the wake of some sacrifice she made. The outcome obviously wont change, but the journey definitely will since she would have otherwise been a major figure in the movie before her eventual death.

[Blue3]

Anakin found out he was a promised savior, conceived by God/The Force. Goes on to have a self-important messiah complex and crush others with an iron fist due to not admitting to himself he was wrong, before being redeemed.

 Luke found out he was the spawn of the evil villain. Goes on to have self-doubt, passively allows others to be crushed due to fear of failure, before being redeemed.

 Rey finds out she's the daughter of nobody special, and is the hero because she has chosen and continues to choose to be a hero. Perhaps she'll finally be balanced.

 People complain the PT shrunk the GFFA too much. The ST is now expanding it, returning to the old OT idea that a hero can spring from anywhere, no midichlorian-rich bloodline required.







 Some of my general thoughts on TLJ:


 I think we still need an explanation for Snoke in IX. Not for Snoke's sake, but because it's important to the story of understanding the true villain of this trilogy, Kylo Ren. HOW did Snoke corrupt him? And HOW was he trained, and take over the First Order? Is Snoke just another Rey/Broom-boy, but his accident corrupted him? Was he the first of Luke's students to be knighted? And then thirst for vengeance and glory had him seek out the First Order in the Unknown Regions and take control, with them eager to embrace a "new Palpatine"? But how did he corrupt Kylo... what is Kylo's true motivation?

 I'm also surprised no one has yet compared Luke in TLJ to his mother, Padme, in ROTS. I'm still mulling over Luke and my feelings on it. I think a lot depends on Episode IX and his Third Lesson for Rey, and hopefully soon after IX then Lucas reveals his original outline. And the novel or EU need to expand on why Luke chose the First Jedi Temple planet of all planets... did he just want to set that tree on fire and keeps postponing it?

 The Resistance plotline had some plot holes... but I hope they are explained in the novel.
 -Perhaps the bomb-drop in space worked because they were magnetically-attracted, and the remote manual was needed only because the rest of the ship was damaged?
 -maybe the FO didn't try harder to catch-up to the Resistance, or send reinforcements to hyperspace-jump in front of them, because they wanted to see if the Resistance would lead them to another base and see if they had already evacuated some of themselves to another possible base?
 -make it official that Holdo was afraid there was a mole in the fleet, possibly even fearing it was Poe
 -explain why hyperspace-ramming isn't done more often... why need the death star, when you can send an automated large vessel with its only purpose to hyperspace-ram into a planet? why need an X-wing trench-run on the death star... just send an automated X-wing to hyperspace-ram it... etc. It needs to be explained why this isn't done.

 Also, I understand the whole "the Republic is gone" means their entire federal/central government is gone, not the individual member-worlds and their governments and resources/defense-forces. I wish there was one line of clarification in there... and I hope rallying those member-worlds is a big plotline in IX. Since the entire movie is framed as the battle against the evacuation of the Resistance shortly after TFA, I can forgive them on this, but it needs to be addressed in IX.


 But let me add... no one's legacy in the real world has ever really lasted forever. Even the pyramids will crumble one day, and today are just a tourist destination. Think of the World War II veterans who died just months after September 11th 2001. How do people deal with this? With fighting the good fight, and seeing it all seemingly ruined? That's a very relevant and relatable question. And I think that's the question the ST is primarily concerned with providing an answer to. And its answer appears to be heavily-influenced by Eastern Philosophy/Religion, as most of Star Wars has been. Which is that what we often think of as a "legacy" is just a distraction, an unnecessary attachment, that the truly good and heroic act not for a legacy and trying to earn a right they think they're entitled to and rest on their laurels, but to always fight evil and never give up that fight because all apparent victories are always temporary or an illusion. That theme is borrowed straight out of the Bhagavad Gita. Don't think of your legacy, think of the here and now and the right thing to do that you should be doing, as Qui-gon and later Yoda said.



 Speculation/Hopes for IX:
 1. The Knights of Ren, Luke's other students who sided with Kylo, appear and at least 2-3 are redeemed by Rey and live. Luke's Jedi legacy lives on. I feel if Kylo isn't redeemed, at least some of the other Jedi students must be redeemed. (And if Kylo isn't redeemed, I hope someone makes it clear that it's not because he was irredeemable, that anyone can be redeemed, but because he just chose not to be redeemed).
 2. Poe/Finn/Rose and others rally the planetary defense forces (who are still holding out, since I'm predicting a much-needed time-jump, and some holdouts make sense after losing both Starkiller Base and the Supremacy within a few weeks)
 3. Luke gives Rey her Third Lesson in IX

 *an animated series focused on the Millennium Falcon as the home-base of the entire remaining Resistance (and Jedi! and all living hero characters!) in the year or two between TLJ and IX would be great. Plus it would mean more Leia... Leia was awesome in this movie And it could also carry on Finn's storyline on now being devoted to the Resistance, and Poe's of being the new rising leader of the Resistance, plus Rey reading the books with Leia and continuing her training.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but I absolutely loved The Last Jedi. It was fantastic. I keep seeing people talk about "plot holes" and not answering the questions from TFA, and I just have to wonder what movie those folks saw, because this movie fit perfectly with what we've already seen. I've also not heard anyone elaborate on what these "plot holes" actually are, either, so I'm inclined to respond with Vizzini's most quoted line.

It was so Very Star Wars; not just imitating the spirit of the original trilogy, but truly capturing it and making it real for a new generation. There was hope despite devastating set-backs. There was fun and joy amidst loss. It was a small band of heroes surviving despite impossible odds, just like the original series.

It also is what is necessary for the universe to continue. The Skywalkers and Solos are not all there is to the galaxy. This helped open the way for more stories about all kinds of different characters from all over the galaxy. Instead of narrowing the trajectory of the universe, it widened it.

This is now my favorite Star Wars movie. I could have done without the porgs. I did love all the muppet usage, though. ❤

http://scriptshadow.net/movie-review-the-last-jedi-and-maybe-the-last-star-wars-movie/

Re: Plot holes and other major problems with Last Jedi: The linked post really explains it far better than I could and in more detail.  It's a long read, but a really good one (even if like me, you're more interested in the general writing aspect/what can be learned from this disaster of a script and don't really care much about Star Wars itself).  I'd suggest reading it if you really want to know why so many folks think Last Jedi is an absolutely horrible Star Wars movie (and really a bad movie in general).

[Mr. Smith]

I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but I absolutely loved The Last Jedi. It was fantastic. I keep seeing people talk about "plot holes" and not answering the questions from TFA, and I just have to wonder what movie those folks saw, because this movie fit perfectly with what we've already seen. I've also not heard anyone elaborate on what these "plot holes" actually are, either, so I'm inclined to respond with Vizzini's most quoted line.

It was so Very Star Wars; not just imitating the spirit of the original trilogy, but truly capturing it and making it real for a new generation. There was hope despite devastating set-backs. There was fun and joy amidst loss. It was a small band of heroes surviving despite impossible odds, just like the original series.

It also is what is necessary for the universe to continue. The Skywalkers and Solos are not all there is to the galaxy. This helped open the way for more stories about all kinds of different characters from all over the galaxy. Instead of narrowing the trajectory of the universe, it widened it.

This is now my favorite Star Wars movie. I could have done without the porgs. I did love all the muppet usage, though. ❤

See, there's the problem, there are Shows, Books, etc. and other side movies like Rogue One that could "expand the universe". The entire point of the Episode numbers is to focus on the Skywalkers.

The Prequels were about showing how Anakin fell partially because of how fallen the Jedi were, the Original was about his redemption by the hands of his son Luke, the natural response should've been about Luke restoring the Order and having a family in order as an example of progress.

Why even call "The Last Jedi" episode 8? Why bother?

And no, it didn't "capture the spirit" at all. Unless you think the Original Trilogy was about mean-spirited jabs, cynicism, and rehashing old ideas anyway [including the "band of heroes" when the natural order should've been a restored order trying to stay on top, or they could've had an A-team within the order, or they could've had some existential threat bring The Sith side and Jedi side in tandem], but given how everyone loved Star Wars for being so idealistic I just don't think that was the case!

If anything the whole Sequel Trilogy is one of arrogance and overreaction, often at the expense of originality, with what few sparks left reserved only for subversion for the sake of subversion rather than actual purpose.


@jdb: I fundamentally disagree with your assertion that Return of the Jedi is a bad movie, or that A New Hope is anything more than average, but you hit the nail on the head with all the problems of this movie. It's actually precisely why I consider The Phantom Menace to be a better film (and I consider that one to be disappointingly average), in spite of Jar Jar Binks and the lengthy political meetings.


I will say that I actually liked how Finn was used, him and his dynamic with Rose were the only good consistently good part (Rey and Kylo Ren were decent, but a bit melodramatic and over-acted), though the plot payoff was predictably terrible. And I liked the Casino planet specifically because of the Naboo-esque aesthetic to it.


Ultimately, while I rescind this being worse than Rogue One [though Rogue One offended me much less], it is definitely worse than Phantom Menace, let alone Revenge of the Sith, or the Original Trilogy it so wishes it was.

[The Other Castro]

My ranking is Empire>New Hope>Return>Force Awakens>Last Jedi>Rogue>Revenge>Clones>Phantom.

For this movie:

Pros:
-Great looking film, very beautiful planets and settings
-Lots of awesome "wow" moments (Leia doing the Superman thing, Luke walking in on Rey and Kylo, Light speed ship crash, Yoda returns, Rey and Kylo team up)
-Humor worked well, felt pretty natural
-Introduction of Rose solves the third wheel problem with Rey, Finn, and Poe
-Felt like an original movie, different enough from previous movies

Cons:
-The Casino planet subplot. Completely pointless, ended up not needing the codebreaker at all, got pretty random with the whole animal rights/screw the rich angle. Teased me with Justin Theroux, and then didn't use him (though that could have worked well as a trope subversion had they not had del Toro betray them).
-Luke gives Rey like 2-3 5 minute lessons and suddenly she's a master Jedi warrior. She jumps right into the dark side aka the dark water hole thing, but then they don't talk about that again.
-Purple hair woman didn't tell anyone her plan, which appeared pretty dumb on the surface and
led to a mutiny.
-Purple hair woman was already sacrificing herself, so she could have crashed her ship into the enemy ship before they had killed most of the escaping resistance ships.
-Nothing really happens. It's an extended slow speed chase
-Snoke. All this hype, and then he's dead. He really couldn't tell that Kylo was about to kill him?
-They didn't flesh out nearly enough Kylo's reasons for potentially switching sides. He just kind of did it.
-Phasma is the most useless character ever

I have a bunch of other points I'm probably forgetting, but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. I enjoyed the movie while watching it, but my preference of it declined immediately after the movie as I started to think of everything wrong with it, mostly relating to the plot. I can see why some people might love it while some hated it, I had pretty mixed feelings. All in all, 3/5.

[Keep cool-idge]

Okay so I’m massive Star Wars fan but what is weird is that I see both sides on this movie....
I get why people love it and I get why people hate it,these are my thoughts

Pros
New original story
The characters
The music duh it’s John Williams
Luke skywalker death scene
Yoda
Luke

Cons
Canto bite I didn’t hate as much as some people but it was 10 minutes to long
Captain phasma I honestly don’t know what they were thinking in both TFA and TLJ worse then boba fett
DJ
Leia flooting in space
Luke milking scene
Snoke I can’t believe they would interduce a brand new dark side user and not tell you one thing about him.
Luke

I know I put Luke twice it’s because I both love and hate what they did with him.

Over all 4 out of 5

[Virginiá]

http://scriptshadow.net/movie-review-the-last-jedi-and-maybe-the-last-star-wars-movie/

Re: Plot holes and other major problems with Last Jedi: The linked post really explains it far better than I could and in more detail.  It's a long read, but a really good one (even if like me, you're more interested in the general writing aspect/what can be learned from this disaster of a script and don't really care much about Star Wars itself).  I'd suggest reading it if you really want to know why so many folks think Last Jedi is an absolutely horrible Star Wars movie (and really a bad movie in general).

Thanks for posting that link! It really helped me flesh out some of the issues I had with the film but couldn't quite sum into words. Overall I liked it if not only because I'm a huge Star Wars nerd, but I feel like they messed this up somehow. One thing that I had noticed 24 hours after it came out that really had me curious and worried was the RT audience score, which the author of that article touched on:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Now the fan score is at 53%.

I really think Disney screwed up big by having Rian Johnson direct the movie. The article makes a compelling point that it's almost like Johnson absolutely hated TFA and JJ's contributions, and spent the entire movie trying to disassemble what JJ had done. It's similar to Trump - he just has to undo everything his predecessor did, even it proves damaging to the future. I don't understand why Disney allowed this guy to make such huge changes to the story - they should have seen how problematic this could become.

All this just to have JJ come back for the next movie. What was the point of bringing on Johnson? Why did they do this? I mean, regardless if one likes the movie, you have to admit that it clearly didn't sit right with the audience, given the huge gap in critic vs audience reviews.

[Enduro]

I saw the film yesterday, and I thought it was a very well done film. Some things I thought were stupid. Rey's parents being one of them.

The little boy at the end of the film who forced the broom to himself, and had the resistance ring. Could he be the basis of Rian's next trilogy?

[fluffypanther19]

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same its weird.