Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: Formation crisis
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  Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: Formation crisis
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Author Topic: Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: Formation crisis  (Read 98517 times)
ottermax
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« Reply #1150 on: April 06, 2021, 11:21:05 PM »

Why do DENK supporters seem to be in favor of a Rutte-led government, especially in comparison to the BIJ1 voters?
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PSOL
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« Reply #1151 on: April 06, 2021, 11:59:50 PM »

Why do DENK supporters seem to be in favor of a Rutte-led government, especially in comparison to the BIJ1 voters?
BIJ1 voters are made up of the marginalized Afro-Dutch communities and activist college students, two groups very much into social activism that isnít found within the VVD. Denk meanwhile is a reactionary Turkish identity party, so itís base of support would be more receptive of joining a national coalition and receiving aid and kickbacks to Turkish areas, especially pertaining small shopkeepers.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #1152 on: April 07, 2021, 04:06:26 AM »

PSOL is right. I think the "don't knows" in Denk show a story. Also, as Baudet said when he had to find one good thing about DENK, they do care a lot about shopkeepers (from their community, but the legislation as a whole is pro-shopkeeper). I think that demographic likes Rutte's pragmatism when it comes to general governance and low tax rates.
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Diouf
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« Reply #1153 on: April 07, 2021, 03:12:20 PM »

Vera Bergkamp from D66 was elected Speaker of parliament. She won 74 of the 139 votes cast in the secret ballot, defeating incumbent speaker Khadija Arib from PvdA (38 votes) and Martin Bosma from PVV (27 votes). While the ballot was secret, it sounds like Bergkamp was supported by D66, VVD and CDA. The last votes could be DENK, who obviously did not vote for Bosma and hates Arib after she criticized DENK heavily for their personalized attack videos on MPs from other parties with migrant background.

The 49-year old Bergkamp is by her own words: "I am a lesbian, half-Moroccan, but also a woman, a human being, an Amsterdam citizen and a citizen of the world." She has been a MP since 2012, before that she was leader of the Dutch LGBT advocacy group for four years.
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Heat
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« Reply #1154 on: April 08, 2021, 07:31:44 AM »

Vera Bergkamp from D66 was elected Speaker of parliament. She won 74 of the 139 votes cast in the secret ballot, defeating incumbent speaker Khadija Arib from PvdA (38 votes) and Martin Bosma from PVV (27 votes). While the ballot was secret, it sounds like Bergkamp was supported by D66, VVD and CDA. The last votes could be DENK, who obviously did not vote for Bosma and hates Arib after she criticized DENK heavily for their personalized attack videos on MPs from other parties with migrant background.

The 49-year old Bergkamp is by her own words: "I am a lesbian, half-Moroccan, but also a woman, a human being, an Amsterdam citizen and a citizen of the world." She has been a MP since 2012, before that she was leader of the Dutch LGBT advocacy group for four years.
Do I remember correctly that Arib was involved in some sort of odd scandal?
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Zinneke
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« Reply #1155 on: April 08, 2021, 12:24:16 PM »

Vera Bergkamp from D66 was elected Speaker of parliament. She won 74 of the 139 votes cast in the secret ballot, defeating incumbent speaker Khadija Arib from PvdA (38 votes) and Martin Bosma from PVV (27 votes). While the ballot was secret, it sounds like Bergkamp was supported by D66, VVD and CDA. The last votes could be DENK, who obviously did not vote for Bosma and hates Arib after she criticized DENK heavily for their personalized attack videos on MPs from other parties with migrant background.

The 49-year old Bergkamp is by her own words: "I am a lesbian, half-Moroccan, but also a woman, a human being, an Amsterdam citizen and a citizen of the world." She has been a MP since 2012, before that she was leader of the Dutch LGBT advocacy group for four years.
Do I remember correctly that Arib was involved in some sort of odd scandal?

Critical of DENK? Of Pechtold? And also got involved in the Dion Graus case* which probably ended her reasonable relationship with the PVV, which she tried to woo by allowing them to push the envelope.

She made more enemies than friends trying to play politics to secure a second term. And she wasn't that good at the nitty gritty of being Speaker, especially with logistics during Covid apparently, while also being arrogant.

*this is the odd scandal you are referring to i think.

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freek
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« Reply #1156 on: April 09, 2021, 09:33:21 AM »

Vera Bergkamp from D66 was elected Speaker of parliament. She won 74 of the 139 votes cast in the secret ballot, defeating incumbent speaker Khadija Arib from PvdA (38 votes) and Martin Bosma from PVV (27 votes). While the ballot was secret, it sounds like Bergkamp was supported by D66, VVD and CDA. The last votes could be DENK, who obviously did not vote for Bosma and hates Arib after she criticized DENK heavily for their personalized attack videos on MPs from other parties with migrant background.

The 49-year old Bergkamp is by her own words: "I am a lesbian, half-Moroccan, but also a woman, a human being, an Amsterdam citizen and a citizen of the world." She has been a MP since 2012, before that she was leader of the Dutch LGBT advocacy group for four years.
Do I remember correctly that Arib was involved in some sort of odd scandal?

Critical of DENK? Of Pechtold? And also got involved in the Dion Graus case* which probably ended her reasonable relationship with the PVV, which she tried to woo by allowing them to push the envelope.

She made more enemies than friends trying to play politics to secure a second term. And she wasn't that good at the nitty gritty of being Speaker, especially with logistics during Covid apparently, while also being arrogant.

*this is the odd scandal you are referring to i think.

Parliamentary staff apparently hated Arib, labelling her as manipulative and authoritarian. She also resisted Covid measures. Where the Senate has a digital quorum, online debates, and allows online votes, this is not the case for the Second Chamber.
And this summer the renovation of parliamentary builidings will finally start, which will take 5 years. It had been planned for years that the Second Chamber during this period will move to the old building of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This building was already renovated, including an almost exact replica of the chamber itself. Arib personally tried to sabotage the move which would have complicated the renovation.
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freek
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« Reply #1157 on: April 12, 2021, 12:29:20 PM »

Largest party per municipality (postal votes only)

Only voters 70 years and older had the possibility to vote by mail.

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Zinneke
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« Reply #1158 on: April 12, 2021, 12:50:42 PM »

Largest party per municipality (postal votes only)

Only voters 70 years and older had the possibility to vote by mail.



Also something like 65.000 votes by post were not taken into account because of mistakes.

On reddit there is a highres version of all the parties' electoral maps (make sure to look at the legend)
https://i.redd.it/d43xjtso6ds61.png

small version :



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freek
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« Reply #1159 on: May 07, 2021, 11:35:52 AM »

While the formation of a government is going very slow (negotiations between parties haven't even started yet), an MP has split of from her party already. Sole 50PLUS MP Lianne den Haan has turned independent. Something that was not completelu unexpected, before the elections it emerged that Den Haan disagreed with the party programme on key points as pension reform and retirement age. Still, a split within two months is preposterous.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #1160 on: May 09, 2021, 04:34:25 AM »

While the formation of a government is going very slow (negotiations between parties haven't even started yet), an MP has split of from her party already. Sole 50PLUS MP Lianne den Haan has turned independent. Something that was not completelu unexpected, before the elections it emerged that Den Haan disagreed with the party programme on key points as pension reform and retirement age. Still, a split within two months is preposterous.

Also bringing to a close Jan Nagel's political career, which had an understated influence on Dutch politics it has to be said.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #1161 on: May 09, 2021, 10:56:57 AM »

While the formation of a government is going very slow (negotiations between parties haven't even started yet), an MP has split of from her party already. Sole 50PLUS MP Lianne den Haan has turned independent. Something that was not completelu unexpected, before the elections it emerged that Den Haan disagreed with the party programme on key points as pension reform and retirement age. Still, a split within two months is preposterous.

Seems like that should've been sorted out if you're running for a party like 50Plus Tongue
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SunSt0rm
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« Reply #1162 on: May 13, 2021, 03:28:15 AM »

There is split (again) within the FvD, Van Haga and 2 other MPs are splitting from the FvD. The 3 disagreed with Baudet how he approach politics and cause controversity and accuses Baudet being solistic
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freek
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« Reply #1163 on: May 21, 2021, 11:10:39 AM »
« Edited: May 21, 2021, 11:16:00 AM by freek »

A map showing the desintegration of FvD. In blue the few remaining FvD MPs/senators/province councillors. In red those that left the party.

Most former FvD members have joined JA21, GO or Code Oranje. Others are independent councillors.  The designation 'Groep' or 'Statenlid' is used for those that did not name their newly formed fraction.
In Noord-Brabant & Flevoland vacancies exists, all candidates have either resigned or are not eligible because of not being a resident. In Zeeland one councillor joined the already existing regionalist Partij voor Zeeland, on a national level he is a member of JA21.
 


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PSOL
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« Reply #1164 on: May 21, 2021, 05:55:45 PM »

Is there any other example in Dutch politics of a party suffering from this scale of defections from factionalism rows?
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freek
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« Reply #1165 on: May 22, 2021, 11:08:49 AM »

Is there any other example in Dutch politics of a party suffering from this scale of defections from factionalism rows?
Not in this extent. A few examples come close though. All of them have similarities to FVD as populist right wing parties that experienced a very rapid growth.

PVV lost 17 out of 69 provincial seats because of defections in the 2011 - 2015 term, and had 7 MPs defecting in the same period (4 just before the 2012 elections, and 3 after). Don't know the numbers for local councils, but probably similar. Main reason for these defections were controversial speeches of Geert Wilders. Especially the 2014 speech where he asked his audience of party supporters if they wanted 'more or less Moroccans in the Netherlands' (the audience chanted 'less, less') caused many to resign or defect.

The LPF / Pim Fortuyn List was famous for its fragmentation during its short existence (2002-2006), caused by the permanent fight for party leadership.  In the 2003-2006 term alone 4 out of 8 MPs left the party (forming 3 different groups).

The Boerenpartij / Farmers Party lost 21 out of 44 provincial seats due to defections in the 1966 - 1970 term, and 5 out of 7 MPs in roughly the same period. 1966 was the breakthrough year for the BP, when party leader Hendrik Koekoek managed to expand its electorate from mainly small farmers to a more general protest party. This resulted in a gain of 43 seats in that year's province elections and many seats in the local elections the same years, also outside rural areas. For example 9% / 4 seats in the Amsterdam local council.
However, it turned out that many of these newly elected councillors had been convicted after WWII for collaboration with the Nazis, most famously senator Adams. Koekoek continued to support Adams, denying his conviction. This, and the authoritarian party leadership of Koekoek, led to mass defections. Most of them joined the unsucessful Binding Rechts party founded by defected MP Harmsen.
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SunSt0rm
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« Reply #1166 on: June 04, 2021, 09:31:59 AM »

Some formation update:

Formation seems to be in deadlock now. Kaag dreamcabinet VVD/D66/CDA/PvdA/GL faces resistance. CDA and VVD refuse to go into coalition with PvdA and GL together. PvdA & GL have reinforced their stance that they will only go together in a new coalition and not alone. Moreover, a group of VVD members have started a petition to be against governing with GL.

Furthermore, D66 have signalled that they do not want to govern with either JA21 and CU, and CU leader Segers says as 10th largest party its not up to his party to have talks now and that the bigger parties should talk first.
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SunSt0rm
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« Reply #1167 on: June 10, 2021, 05:21:30 PM »

While the formation is still in deadlock, the situation at the CDA is about to get explosive after today documents of Omtzigt have been leaked in which he destroyed the CDA. In the 76 page documents he described how the party worked against him during the CDA leadership election. He writes in the document that he has been called "psychopath, sick man, eating dog, jerk, disturbed and unstable" in communication between CDA faction employees and members.

Omtzigt also point to that 3 donors have donated 1 million Euro for the election campaign trying to influence the platform and eventually pressured De Jonge to resign as party leader last year. He also said he was promised by the party chairman to become party leader in the event De Jonge would withdraw, however, the party backstabbed him and chose Hoekstra instead
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Zinneke
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« Reply #1168 on: June 11, 2021, 03:41:44 AM »

This will hopefully be a catalyst to making leadership elections more transparent and opening them up to the wider public. In the Netherlands there is still a culture of the predecessor appoint their successor, or some shady committee, or in this case 3 major donors. Hoekstra was, as commented by many, an Establishment stitch up.
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PSOL
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« Reply #1169 on: June 11, 2021, 10:08:41 AM »

Any new developments into the factional fights in SP?
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SunSt0rm
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« Reply #1170 on: June 12, 2021, 08:22:16 AM »

Omtzigt has officially break out of the CDA, he will continue as independent mp when he returns from sick leave
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Zinneke
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« Reply #1171 on: Today at 03:49:04 AM »

De Hond might be trolling again but he has CDA down to 6 seats in his latest poll.

Any new developments into the factional fights in SP?

Two weeks ago SP members wanted a split with Rood, the youth wing. Now there are discussions between the two to resolve differences. But there are still a lot of internal factions and the leadership is getting more and more criticised from all quarters. The issue also now is that Communist Platform has now become the "Marxists Forum" and want to replace the leadership. CP still exists as a separate entity with a board and that meant SP's statutes could prevent one being a member of both CP and SP (and also Rood-SP if that split is confirmed). MF is a open discussion group and can maneuver more effectively within the party, but still faces resistance from the Marijnissen clan. Honestly I think it will take a genuine electoral dismantling and reformation of the Dutch anti-capitalist Left.


D66 members are also getting critical of their wonder woman Kaag because they find the negotiations with Rutte are not transparent to them enough. She argues that this is normal in a negotiation.
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