Do you think that Donald Trump is a fascist?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

By the definitions peddled here, one could easily take to calling most monarchies prior to the era of revolutions "fascist". You guys are pulling a vanguard96.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

By the definitions peddled here, one could easily take to calling most monarchies prior to the era of revolutions "fascist". You guys are pulling a vanguard96.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Trumpolini supporters need to acknowledge reality and admit that their guy looks a lot more like a fascist than any prior American government, or than most modern first world nations. Of course, once they let reality get a foot in the door, it'll be hard to avoid coming to terms with just how disconnected their cult leader is from what they want him to be. And Trump cultists are nothing if not good at denying reality.

[136or142]

    No, and the concept implicitly pedalled in this thread that any right-wing nationalist agenda is fascist cheapens the term significantly. Many of these alleged indicators of fascism (e.g. disproportionate focus on the military) are standard policies of the United States government going back decades. He is disturbingly authoritarian, but fortunately this sort of thing is what the Constitution is for.

Cheapens which term 'right wing nationalist' or 'fascist'?

     A valid question, isn't it? To say that it cheapens the word "fascist" would imply that its usage has meant anything since 1945.

People in Spain who lived under Franco might disagree with you on that.

     Touche. Would that the Anglophones have considered that before throwing the word fascist around as a cheap insult and making light of the horrors of the fascist regimes.

Probably no more so than those who make a cheap insult of referring to liberals as 'communists' or 'communists/socialists.'

Of course, referring to Trump as an 'aspirational fascist' is not a cheap insult, but is, as I've argued here, a plain statement of fact.

He aspires to lead an ethno-state with society itself organized along militaristic lines and a planned economy geared towards maximizing efficiency? I never would have guessed he had such ideological vision.

He and much of his base would aspire for the bolded part, and planned economies aren't a defining feature of fascist governments.

     Allegedly he aspires. He says a great deal to contradict that notion. It is pretty clear to me that he has no consistent ideology beyond self-promotion (much like Mussolini, actually).

     Sure it's not defining in that other ideologies also embrace central planning (including some to a greater extent, as in communism), though the reasoning typically differs. Fascists were intensely critical of consumerist tendencies in capitalism and pursued strongly authoritarian policies to root out "parasitic" elements. Being a fascist and opposing economic planning as outlined above is a contradiction of terms, as that planning is critical to enacting the fascist program.

I disagree that central planning is a characteristic of fascism.  The economic characteristic of fascism agreed on by most historians is corporatism or crony capitalism.

[Associate Justice PiT]

    No, and the concept implicitly pedalled in this thread that any right-wing nationalist agenda is fascist cheapens the term significantly. Many of these alleged indicators of fascism (e.g. disproportionate focus on the military) are standard policies of the United States government going back decades. He is disturbingly authoritarian, but fortunately this sort of thing is what the Constitution is for.

Cheapens which term 'right wing nationalist' or 'fascist'?

     A valid question, isn't it? To say that it cheapens the word "fascist" would imply that its usage has meant anything since 1945.

People in Spain who lived under Franco might disagree with you on that.

     Touche. Would that the Anglophones have considered that before throwing the word fascist around as a cheap insult and making light of the horrors of the fascist regimes.

Probably no more so than those who make a cheap insult of referring to liberals as 'communists' or 'communists/socialists.'

Of course, referring to Trump as an 'aspirational fascist' is not a cheap insult, but is, as I've argued here, a plain statement of fact.

He aspires to lead an ethno-state with society itself organized along militaristic lines and a planned economy geared towards maximizing efficiency? I never would have guessed he had such ideological vision.

He and much of his base would aspire for the bolded part, and planned economies aren't a defining feature of fascist governments.

     Allegedly he aspires. He says a great deal to contradict that notion. It is pretty clear to me that he has no consistent ideology beyond self-promotion (much like Mussolini, actually).

     Sure it's not defining in that other ideologies also embrace central planning (including some to a greater extent, as in communism), though the reasoning typically differs. Fascists were intensely critical of consumerist tendencies in capitalism and pursued strongly authoritarian policies to root out "parasitic" elements. Being a fascist and opposing economic planning as outlined above is a contradiction of terms, as that planning is critical to enacting the fascist program.

I disagree that central planning is a characteristic of fascism.  The economic characteristic of fascism agreed on by most historians is corporatism or crony capitalism.

     Eh, I suppose it isn't explicitly necessary as it is in communism, but it is distinctly improbable that a fascist state could arise without a significant degree of planning to achieve the desired societal transformation (indeed, fascist corporatism had a much more expansive reach than variants seen in more liberal countries). There's a reason why a lot of the alt-right relies on the conviction that people will "wake up" and agree with them; by abandoning state-direction of the economy as a means to deliver the dialectical change that they seek, they are basically reduced to a form of magical thinking to envision their utopian fantasy.

[Anna Komnene]

I think that several aspects of his personality and worldview are fascist such as his belief in a cutthroat world where only the strong deserve to succeed (e.g. his comments that the architects that he refused to pay for the work they did on his golf courses didn't deserve to be paid or his comment that betting on the housing crisis was "just business" or the way he speaks about "law and order" as if large parts of the country are cesspools that need to be rooted out.

With that said, I don't think that he governs like a fascist and I don't think his presidency is fascist. I think he governs like an idiot. Though he may have some literal fascists advising him.

[Phony Moderate]

Maybe, but not a very effective one.

The thing about Trump is that he is clearly not succeeding in taking the country in his (or his hardcore supporters' I should say) direction, as evidenced by the polls - Americans are probably now more 'liberal' than they have ever been on issues such as healthcare, immigration, LGBT+ rights etc. This makes him vastly different from the likes of Reagan and FDR, and even (to a lesser extent) George W. Bush.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

By the definitions peddled here, one could easily take to calling most monarchies prior to the era of revolutions "fascist". You guys are pulling a vanguard96.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Trumpolini supporters need to acknowledge reality and admit that their guy looks a lot more like a fascist than any prior American government, or than most modern first world nations. Of course, once they let reality get a foot in the door, it'll be hard to avoid coming to terms with just how disconnected their cult leader is from what they want him to be. And Trump cultists are nothing if not good at denying reality.

How could they ever admit that when every right-wing Presudent in modern memory has been labeled a fascist?

And your "by extension" seems to imply that the Islamic Republic of Iran is fascist. The question here is not whether the President or his people are ill-intentioned or incompetent. I'm terribly confused as to how fascism equates with most historical forms of government.

[136or142]

By the definitions peddled here, one could easily take to calling most monarchies prior to the era of revolutions "fascist". You guys are pulling a vanguard96.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Trumpolini supporters need to acknowledge reality and admit that their guy looks a lot more like a fascist than any prior American government, or than most modern first world nations. Of course, once they let reality get a foot in the door, it'll be hard to avoid coming to terms with just how disconnected their cult leader is from what they want him to be. And Trump cultists are nothing if not good at denying reality.

How could they ever admit that when every right-wing Presudent in modern memory has been labeled a fascist?

Modern Republicans have been increasingly adopting fascists tactics such as claiming that anybody who disagrees with them is unpatriotic, disrespects the country or disrespects the military such as we see with these football player protests and the response to them from many Republicans.

Those sorts of tactics have gone back to at least President Reagan and, before that, President Nixon.

Given that, it's understandable that since the United States has such a large population, that at least some people will have stated that "Republicans (or right wingers) are fascists."  

That some people in a nation with a population with 200+ million people going back to the 1970s would say that is neither a surprise nor proves anything.

The difference now is that we are seeing people who actually have an understanding of history and political science seriously asking "Is Donald Trump and/or the Republican Party fascist?"

Similarly, you can go back to at least President Franklin Roosevelt and find non-serious people claiming 'the Democratic Party is communist/socialist.'  So what?  As the saying goes: stupid is as stupid does.

[Badger]

No. Actual fascists are actually competent to some degree.

It's a complete myth that Mussolini was competent and Franco was hopelessly incompetent.

I don't know much about Franco, but with Mussolini it was just that the Italian military was incompetent.

As part of that myth, in fact he did NOT make the trains run on time. Train schedules under Mussolini were his erratic and late running as they ever were under the prior governments.

It's actually a good parallel to Trump's fascist tendencies. He brings all the nastiness and horribleness of authoritarian instincts, but he doesn't have the leadership or organizational skills to organize a picnic.

Also kind of an LOL at the many die-hard no posters here who seems to be saying of course not a fascist. I voted for him and I would never ever vote for a fascist so there.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Trump is NOT a fascist. He is a demagogue.

I would tend to agree with this.  His demogoguery is the part about him I least like.

Trump's rise was, however, very much a product of folks being fed up with the imposition of political correctness in just about every aspect of public life.  Political Correctness was, in a way, the demogoguery of elites. 

I find myself, oddly enough, missing George W. Bush.  He didn't have the cloying political correctness of Obama (at certain times), but he didn't resort to the kind of demogoguery that Trump seemingly can't give up.  Whether or not this absolves Bush 43 of the Iraq War is another question. 

[pbrower2a]

By the definitions peddled here, one could easily take to calling most monarchies prior to the era of revolutions "fascist". You guys are pulling a vanguard96.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Trumpolini supporters need to acknowledge reality and admit that their guy looks a lot more like a fascist than any prior American government, or than most modern first world nations. Of course, once they let reality get a foot in the door, it'll be hard to avoid coming to terms with just how disconnected their cult leader is from what they want him to be. And Trump cultists are nothing if not good at denying reality.

My most concise definition of fascism is the use of Bolshevik methods of terror and propaganda in the service of a reactionary agenda.  Fascist regimes are

1. simultaneously revolutionary and reactionary
2. anti-intellectual and against the independent artist
3. hostile to ethnic and religious pariahs
4. for the big landowner at the expense of the peasant or farm laborer
5. for the plutocrat at the expense of the worker
6. enamored of military shtick
7. paranoid about crime and national security
8. able to corrupt the local religious heritage
9. destructive of democracy locally and hostile to it internationally
10. grossly dishonest in communications
11. intent on controlling all aspects of personal and public life
12. antithetical to liberalism
13. fraudulent in presentation of history
14. brutal, brutal, brutal!

While seeking power a fascist movement calls itself in favor of 'true' democracy as opposed to 'decadent, bourgeois' liberalism; it may rail against 'elites' to which it eventually sells out. It promises national glory (which anyone should recognize as a warning of militarism). Fascism promises work -- indeed it gives people plenty of work. More work, but a smaller paycheck, as a rule. Once in power it quickly shows its cruelty, anger, and corruption.

We had plenty of warning about "Trumpolini" Wake up, Americans! Mussolini is the model.

[TheSaint250]

Why did this thread have to come back

[American2020]

Trump is Caligula's modern version.
We could name him: Donald Caligula Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/26/opinion/sunday/caligula-roman-empire.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caligula

[mgop]

no, but democrats are still racists.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Trump is NOT a fascist. He is a demagogue.

I would tend to agree with this.  His demogoguery is the part about him I least like.

Trump's rise was, however, very much a product of folks being fed up with the imposition of political correctness in just about every aspect of public life.  Political Correctness was, in a way, the demogoguery of elites. 

I find myself, oddly enough, missing George W. Bush.  He didn't have the cloying political correctness of Obama (at certain times), but he didn't resort to the kind of demogoguery that Trump seemingly can't give up.  Whether or not this absolves Bush 43 of the Iraq War is another question. 

I'm sorry but this is the problem right here. Look if you want to be "anti-pc" five you're just one individual that is beholden to anyone else but a politician let alone the freaking president shouldn't because they represent everyone in the country. So when Trump is "anti-pc" he more or less is attacking people is suppose to represent and protect