Hill: Rising Dem star Tim Ryan splits with party, endorses corporate tax cuts

[Shadows]

Tim Ryan 2020! Corporate tax rates in the US are too high imo. There also are too many loopholes but cutting the most obvious loopholes only gets you to 28% or so which still would be a fairly high rate. To really make a dent in corporate tax rates without increasing the deficit or increasing other taxes you'd need to look at things like the corporate interest deduction or border adjusting them but these measures would trigger a corporate war (and border adjusting corporate taxes likely is illegal under WTO rules).

Technically you could get around that by adopting a broad-based VAT to replace the corporate income tax and employer-side payroll taxes. In essence you would get a border-adjusted VAT with a large tax cut on wages to negate the effect of a VAT which looks a lot like the Ryan corporate tax plan (which looks a lot like a VAT with a wage deduction), and border-adjusting a "normal" VAT is perfectly legal under WTO rules. But doing that would likely hurt ordinary Americans unless it massively grows the economy (which is possible). Theoretically all the benefit of lower employer-side payroll taxes and 20-30% of the benefit of lower corporate taxes should go to households in the form of higher wages, but I'm not sure whether you can sell that to the public (let alone selling the idea that slashing/repealing the corporate income tax would help the economy).

Anyway, I do understand why some Democrats are frustrated by this. The idea of cutting corporate taxes probably doesn't match very well with an American liberal ideology.

Corporate taxes are a small factor. How much difference does a 25% or 30% or 35% rate make. Healthcare costs are a 100 times bigger factor which major countries in the world don't force their companies to cover. That is a huge HUGE cost difference. Healthcare cost is at a ridiculous high of 18% of GDP & is increasing.

It will be consume American businesses. Healthcare should be decoupled from businesses with a single payer plan & then you could with time deregulate some areas, adopt more private insurance etc & get to a more complex plan. Corporate taxes won't help a dime when it comes to employment when people have so low of a disposable income, there is so much concentration of wealth & when corporations are not at all cash starved.

[Gustaf]

The Swedish welfare state runs on a corporate tax of like 22%. Americans obsess way too much over specific taxes.

Reducing loopholes and lowering rates is a good idea either way.

[Coraxion]

And there goes my support for him.

Grijalva for Leader!

Keith Ellison would the most sense if a left-winger were to replace Pelosi, which, of course, would never happen in the first place.

Pelosi is a left-winger.

[Maxwell]

And there goes my support for him.

Grijalva for Leader!

Keith Ellison would the most sense if a left-winger were to replace Pelosi, which, of course, would never happen in the first place.

Pelosi is a left-winger.

I wouldn't go that far, but the sad thing is that, within this sad sack Dem caucus, that's not entirely wrong if you think in terms of that caucus.

[BuckeyeNut]

The Swedish welfare state runs on a corporate tax of like 22%. Americans obsess way too much over specific taxes.

Reducing loopholes and lowering rates is a good idea either way.

Which, to be clear, Ryan also advocated.

[Shadows]

The Swedish welfare state runs on a corporate tax of like 22%. Americans obsess way too much over specific taxes.

Reducing loopholes and lowering rates is a good idea either way.

Which, to be clear, Ryan also advocated.

Which loophole did he talk about? Did he talk about effective tax rates? That idiot was making GOP talking points like you can't be the party of redistribution & business isn't competitive. Part of it is a lie, part just hackish.

Ryan is meeting a lot of donors for his rumored Presidential run. A 30% or 35% or 25% is a not a huge issue.

[BuckeyeNut]

The Swedish welfare state runs on a corporate tax of like 22%. Americans obsess way too much over specific taxes.

Reducing loopholes and lowering rates is a good idea either way.

Which, to be clear, Ryan also advocated.

Which loophole did he talk about? Did he talk about effective tax rates? That idiot was making GOP talking points like you can't be the party of redistribution & business isn't competitive. Part of it is a lie, part just hackish.

Ryan is meeting a lot of donors for his rumored Presidential run. A 30% or 35% or 25% is a not a huge issue.

This is just false. Ryan said you can't just be the party of wealth redistribution and that Democrats also have to focus on the generation of wealth. Which is true.  I think he's wrong to say a corporate tax cut + the closing of loopholes will bring jobs to Youngstown, Detroit, and elsewhere, but he's 100% right that Democrats need to incentive job growth in those areas.

[McGovernForPrez]

The Swedish welfare state runs on a corporate tax of like 22%. Americans obsess way too much over specific taxes.

Reducing loopholes and lowering rates is a good idea either way.

Which, to be clear, Ryan also advocated.

Which loophole did he talk about? Did he talk about effective tax rates? That idiot was making GOP talking points like you can't be the party of redistribution & business isn't competitive. Part of it is a lie, part just hackish.

Ryan is meeting a lot of donors for his rumored Presidential run. A 30% or 35% or 25% is a not a huge issue.

This is just false. Ryan said you can't just be the party of wealth redistribution and that Democrats also have to focus on the generation of wealth. Which is true.  I think he's wrong to say a corporate tax cut + the closing of loopholes will bring jobs to Youngstown, Detroit, and elsewhere, but he's 100% right that Democrats need to incentive job growth in those areas.

I agree, generation of wealth is also very important, maybe not as much as redistribution, but it'll make redistribution easier. I'm not sure whether or not that's what Tim Ryan meant though.

[BuckeyeNut]

The Swedish welfare state runs on a corporate tax of like 22%. Americans obsess way too much over specific taxes.

Reducing loopholes and lowering rates is a good idea either way.

Which, to be clear, Ryan also advocated.

Which loophole did he talk about? Did he talk about effective tax rates? That idiot was making GOP talking points like you can't be the party of redistribution & business isn't competitive. Part of it is a lie, part just hackish.

Ryan is meeting a lot of donors for his rumored Presidential run. A 30% or 35% or 25% is a not a huge issue.

This is just false. Ryan said you can't just be the party of wealth redistribution and that Democrats also have to focus on the generation of wealth. Which is true.  I think he's wrong to say a corporate tax cut + the closing of loopholes will bring jobs to Youngstown, Detroit, and elsewhere, but he's 100% right that Democrats need to incentive job growth in those areas.

I agree, generation of wealth is also very important, maybe not as much as redistribution, but it'll make redistribution easier. I'm not sure whether or not that's what Tim Ryan meant though.

If you look at the full quote -- which I would post instead of link, but there are some strange rules about pulling more than a few sentences from articles -- it's clear he means the Democratic party has to be the party of both wealth redistribution and creation. His conclusion you do the latter through cutting the corporate tax rate while also closing loopholes is a somewhat odd one.

[McGovernForPrez]

The Swedish welfare state runs on a corporate tax of like 22%. Americans obsess way too much over specific taxes.

Reducing loopholes and lowering rates is a good idea either way.

Which, to be clear, Ryan also advocated.

Which loophole did he talk about? Did he talk about effective tax rates? That idiot was making GOP talking points like you can't be the party of redistribution & business isn't competitive. Part of it is a lie, part just hackish.

Ryan is meeting a lot of donors for his rumored Presidential run. A 30% or 35% or 25% is a not a huge issue.

This is just false. Ryan said you can't just be the party of wealth redistribution and that Democrats also have to focus on the generation of wealth. Which is true.  I think he's wrong to say a corporate tax cut + the closing of loopholes will bring jobs to Youngstown, Detroit, and elsewhere, but he's 100% right that Democrats need to incentive job growth in those areas.

I agree, generation of wealth is also very important, maybe not as much as redistribution, but it'll make redistribution easier. I'm not sure whether or not that's what Tim Ryan meant though.

If you look at the full quote -- which I would post instead of link, but there are some strange rules about pulling more than a few sentences from articles -- it's clear he means the Democratic party has to be the party of both wealth redistribution and creation. His conclusion you do the latter through cutting the corporate tax rate while also closing loopholes is a somewhat odd one.

I mean if corporate tax cuts are given as a concession to allow better wealth distribution in other areas I can see that being an alright deal.

[Maxwell]

"closing loopholes" is nice talking point, but a hypothetical that will never get even close to the amount of revenue lost by cutting corporate taxes. The real way to make up that revenue (raising capital gains substantially) won't be enacted in a GOP majority congress.

[Gustaf]

"closing loopholes" is nice talking point, but a hypothetical that will never get even close to the amount of revenue lost by cutting corporate taxes. The real way to make up that revenue (raising capital gains substantially) won't be enacted in a GOP majority congress.

I'm no expert on US tax law but when Sweden cut the corporate tax rate in half (54% to 27% if memory serves) revenue was essentially unchanged. My impression is that the US tax code is riddled with weird loopholes and in dire need of an overhaul. In fact, I have a hard time believing the US could be as economically competitive as it is if companies were actually paying a corporate tax rate that is 50% higher than most comparable Western nations.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Dropping the facade I created five minutes ago, this is the only right wing policy idea with some level of merit.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

I wonder if he should get primaried...

No, that'd be an awful idea.  He's objectively an excellent Congressman and always has been.

Honestly no offence but this is such a stupid statement.