ME-02: Poliquin in denial

[MAINEiac4434]

I've heard (from Nathan) that LePage needs to certify the election's results? What happens if he refuses to?

That's a far more credible threat than the SCOTUS stepping in, since they need at least the pretense of a coherent legal case and Poliquin hasn't provided that.

Couldn't Mills just certify it once she gets in?

Does she take office before or after the new Congress is seated?

January 2.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Poliquin's arguments aren't just wrong, they're HILARIOUSLY bad. Like on the level of the arguments used by sovereign citizens.

Worst of all is his argument he won with a plurality of first preferences. Even if RCV is illegal, that doesn't mean you can state the election was won under the "correct" rules. The whole election would be nullified.

[Skill and Chance]

The dangerous legal argument here is "RCV should be thrown out because it is unconstitutional to change federal election procedures by voter intiative, because an initiative is not the legislature."  Roberts wrote a 4 Justice dissent based on that a couple years ago.  But it looks like Poliquin's lawyers haven't made this argument at all?  Poliquin almost surely won't be winning this suit on OMOV grounds, because Justice Thomas is on the record that he doesn't believe the Constitution requires OMOV in the first place. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Roberts' dissent was only based on redistricting.

The "one person one vote" argument is not just hilariously flawed, there's a ton of state legislatures, city councils and school boards that use multi member districts and allow for more than one vote. I cast two votes for Minneapolis school board last week. Poliquin's argument there is fundamentally absurd.

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/MESecOfState/status/1062705283569455104

Yet to be counted:
Somerset County (around 19,000 votes)
Waldo County (around 19,000 votes)
Washington County (around 12,000 votes)

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/MESecOfState/status/1062459456318005249

There's around 40K votes left to count

Is this counting the first choice options, or figuring out the whole RCV thing?

The votes have to be certified prior to RCV kicking in, so that the result is verifiable (as opposed to California, where the voting isn't certified for weeks after the election).
So the Secretary of State's office has to account for, and verify every ballot. The legible ballots will be run through a scanner, and the rest hand checked.
Based on progress in previous days, I think they should finish tabulating today.

[MAINEiac4434]

https://twitter.com/brucepoliquin/status/1062715446095474688?s=21

What a baby

[Tintrlvr]

https://twitter.com/MESecOfState/status/1062459456318005249

There's around 40K votes left to count

Is this counting the first choice options, or figuring out the whole RCV thing?

The votes have to be certified prior to RCV kicking in, so that the result is verifiable (as opposed to California, where the voting isn't certified for weeks after the election).
So the Secretary of State's office has to account for, and verify every ballot. The legible ballots will be run through a scanner, and the rest hand checked.
Based on progress in previous days, I think they should finish tabulating today.

This is stupid. Why do you publicize the first-round count before certifying, but not the other counts? There's no logic to it. The only rationale for publishing the first round count and not the other counts is if there is genuine uncertainty about the order of elimination of candidates (say, if there were a very close race between second and third), which is obviously not the case in this election and really isn't a big deal even when there is - you just adjust who is determined to make it to the next round as more votes are counted (which is how Australia handles the issue). Really stupid own goal by the Maine SoS.

[user12345]

https://twitter.com/brucepoliquin/status/1062715446095474688?s=21

What a baby

If he had such an issue with RCV, he should have filed lawsuits and spoken up against it BEFORE the election. Not when it caused him to lose.

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/MESecOfState/status/1062739034391359489

So once they've finished Waldo (19K votes),  there's just Washington County (12K votes) left to count. Nearly there. Still hopeful that we can get RCV results tonight.

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/brucepoliquin/status/1062715446095474688?s=21

What a baby

If he had such an issue with RCV, he should have filed lawsuits and spoken up against it BEFORE the election. Not when it caused him to lose.

Hear, hear. I imagine he'd be singing a different tune if the Independents were right rather than left leaning, and promoted him as their second choice, rather than Golden.

[MAINEiac4434]

https://twitter.com/kevinmillerpph/status/1062748535546937344?s=21

Abolsh Cherryfield

[MAINEiac4434]

https://twitter.com/MESecOfState/status/1062459456318005249

There's around 40K votes left to count

Is this counting the first choice options, or figuring out the whole RCV thing?

The votes have to be certified prior to RCV kicking in, so that the result is verifiable (as opposed to California, where the voting isn't certified for weeks after the election).
So the Secretary of State's office has to account for, and verify every ballot. The legible ballots will be run through a scanner, and the rest hand checked.
Based on progress in previous days, I think they should finish tabulating today.

This is stupid. Why do you publicize the first-round count before certifying, but not the other counts? There's no logic to it. The only rationale for publishing the first round count and not the other counts is if there is genuine uncertainty about the order of elimination of candidates (say, if there were a very close race between second and third), which is obviously not the case in this election and really isn't a big deal even when there is - you just adjust who is determined to make it to the next round as more votes are counted (which is how Australia handles the issue). Really stupid own goal by the Maine SoS.

All the ballots need to be counted and certified to ensure no one received 50% of the vote. The results reported on election night are unofficial. This is Maine Law.

[MAINEiac4434]

For the record, Cherryfield is two-and-a-half hours away from Augusta.

[Tintrlvr]

https://twitter.com/MESecOfState/status/1062459456318005249

There's around 40K votes left to count

Is this counting the first choice options, or figuring out the whole RCV thing?

The votes have to be certified prior to RCV kicking in, so that the result is verifiable (as opposed to California, where the voting isn't certified for weeks after the election).
So the Secretary of State's office has to account for, and verify every ballot. The legible ballots will be run through a scanner, and the rest hand checked.
Based on progress in previous days, I think they should finish tabulating today.

This is stupid. Why do you publicize the first-round count before certifying, but not the other counts? There's no logic to it. The only rationale for publishing the first round count and not the other counts is if there is genuine uncertainty about the order of elimination of candidates (say, if there were a very close race between second and third), which is obviously not the case in this election and really isn't a big deal even when there is - you just adjust who is determined to make it to the next round as more votes are counted (which is how Australia handles the issue). Really stupid own goal by the Maine SoS.

All the ballots need to be counted and certified to ensure no one received 50% of the vote. The results reported on election night are unofficial. This is Maine Law.

That's not the law. Run the extra counts, report them unofficially, and, if someone gets to 50% on the first round in the official results, the extra counts don’t matter. Or just don’t report any results, official or otherwise, precertification, if you’re going to take the moronic position that you can’t do even unofficial second-round counts until it has been certified that no one made it to 50%.

There's no excuse for the idiotic behavior on display by the Maine Secretary of State.

[Torrain]

For the record, Cherryfield is two-and-a-half hours away from Augusta.

This is crazy. A four-five hour delay for under 20 ballots. Looks like another day's wait unless this can be resolved at exceptional pace.
https://twitter.com/KevinMillerPPH/status/1062749513562107904

[MAINEiac4434]

https://twitter.com/MESecOfState/status/1062459456318005249

There's around 40K votes left to count

Is this counting the first choice options, or figuring out the whole RCV thing?

The votes have to be certified prior to RCV kicking in, so that the result is verifiable (as opposed to California, where the voting isn't certified for weeks after the election).
So the Secretary of State's office has to account for, and verify every ballot. The legible ballots will be run through a scanner, and the rest hand checked.
Based on progress in previous days, I think they should finish tabulating today.

This is stupid. Why do you publicize the first-round count before certifying, but not the other counts? There's no logic to it. The only rationale for publishing the first round count and not the other counts is if there is genuine uncertainty about the order of elimination of candidates (say, if there were a very close race between second and third), which is obviously not the case in this election and really isn't a big deal even when there is - you just adjust who is determined to make it to the next round as more votes are counted (which is how Australia handles the issue). Really stupid own goal by the Maine SoS.

All the ballots need to be counted and certified to ensure no one received 50% of the vote. The results reported on election night are unofficial. This is Maine Law.

Which is stupid. Run the extra counts, and if someone gets to 50% on the first round, the extra counts don’t matter. Or just don’t report any results, official or otherwise, precertification, if you’re going to take the moronic position that you can’t do even unofficial second-round counts until it has been certified that no one made it to 50%.

This is not difficult to comprehend. They need every vote before they can start counting the second ballots. Otherwise, some people’s votes won’t be counted.

Individual municipalities do not and cannot run the RCV counts. Only the Secretary of State can. They have to 1) acquire the ballots, 2) Count them and upload the results and 3) run the RCV counts. They need all the ballots, and they need to upload them, before they can run the actual counts. This isn’t hard.

The actual ranking will take less than an hour.

Anyway:

https://twitter.com/stevecollinssj/status/1062743619155705858?s=21
The court won’t as Bruce.

[ON Progressive]

Why does it take a century for Maine towns to do this? It can't be that hard to send ballots to Augusta within a week at least.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Why don't they just immediately publish all of the second and third choices regardless of whether they know if someone has 50% or not?   They don't need a "computer program" to do this, other than whatever computer is used to tally up the results of every single other race people vote on.

[TheSaint250]

https://twitter.com/brucepoliquin/status/1062715446095474688?s=21

What a baby

There's an irony to "standing up for the minority" by fighting an election system passed by the majority, thereby invalidating the "minority" ever selecting the winning candidate again.

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://twitter.com/kevinmillerpph/status/1062748535546937344?s=21

Abolsh Cherryfield

....FFS

So no results until tonight at the earliest?

[MAINEiac4434]

https://twitter.com/kevinmillerpph/status/1062748535546937344?s=21

Abolsh Cherryfield

....FFS

So no results until tonight at the earliest?

This evening EST, yes.

[Torrain]

Nearly there (minus the quest for the missing Cherryfield ballots)

https://twitter.com/MESecOfState/status/1062781476931076098

[ProudModerate2]

I thought Cherryfield was probably some small town at the very top of the State, near the Canada border. But it's location doesn't seem too far from Augusta.

[MAINEiac4434]

I thought Cherryfield was probably some small town at the very top of the State, near the Canada border. But it's location doesn't seem too far from Augusta.

It's two-and-a-half hours away from Augusta, so it'd take nearly five hours to retrieve the ballots and bring them back. I'm assuming they left at 11:45 (right before the first tweets about this were sent), so they should be on their way back now.