Are you a member of the 'owning class?'

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Working class. But we don't exist anymore apparently. So I'm obviously A Poor.

[Huckleberry Finn]

Yes and no. I have some shares and funds but definitely not that much that it would make me a member of the "owning class". I voted yes, because it seems that many people here in the similar situation have done so.

[Virginian87]

ive heard him mention that he 'blows' most of his money.

Considering opebo, that phrase might have a double meaning.

[opebo]

I don't believe in silly class definitions.

Those above you do.

Working class. But we don't exist anymore apparently. So I'm obviously A Poor.

Same thing, Al.  Really I should use the term 'working class' as it corresponds so well with 'owning class'. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Same thing, Al.

No, no it isn't.

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In one of your Pseudo-Marxist moods I see...

[opebo]

Same thing, Al.

No, no it isn't.

Yes, I mean precisely the same thing by it.  Care to share what you mean?

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In one of your Pseudo-Marxist moods I see...
[/quote]

Always of course, since that is the way the world works.

[dazzleman]

Always of course, since that is the way the world works.

obebo, you live well outside reality and don't have a clue the way the world works.  It's pretty hilarious that a guy who lives off a trust fund, and blows his money on hookers and probably dope, should be telling people who have had some success in the world how it works.

[Gabu]

Always of course, since that is the way the world works.

Opebo, your entire life has been based around sucking up to your parents to ensure that you won't have to work a day in your life.  The only reason you're not a hobo out on the street is because your parents are too stupid to realize what you really want.  You're a Machiavellian creep with a major inferiority complex for which you compensate by acting as if you're important and as if your life somehow matters because you expect to have money to burn at some later date.  News flash: you're not.  You're a loser, it just so happens to be that you're a loser who expects a big inheritance.  You will likely die alone as a cynical old man who has not one tiny iota in his life that he can look back upon and feel proud of.  Wealth will not bring you any power over those without wealth, nor will it make any impact on anyone's life whatsoever other than the prostitutes that you will likely frequent.  You have a giant, unbelievably inflated self-worth that you present to the world purely because you know very damn well that all the wealth in the world isn't going make your existence any more meaningful than it already is.  You're not likely to ever be truly happy at any point in your life, and frankly, I feel not one bit of sympathy on account of it.

Damn, that felt good.

[??????????]

I don't believe in silly class definitions.

Those above you do.

Good for them but I hate groupthink.

[WalterMitty]

Always of course, since that is the way the world works.

Opebo, your entire life has been based around sucking up to your parents to ensure that you won't have to work a day in your life.  The only reason you're not a hobo out on the street is because your parents are too stupid to realize what you really want.  You're a Machiavellian creep with a major inferiority complex for which you compensate by acting as if you're important and as if your life somehow matters because you expect to have money to burn at some later date.  News flash: you're not.  You're a loser, it just so happens to be that you're a loser who expects a big inheritance.  You will likely die alone as a cynical old man who has not one tiny iota in his life that he can look back upon and feel proud of.  Wealth will not bring you any power over those without wealth, nor will it make any impact on anyone's life whatsoever other than the prostitutes that you will likely frequent.  You have a giant, unbelievably inflated self-worth that you present to the world purely because you know very damn well that all the wealth in the world isn't going make your existence any more meaningful than it already is.  You're not likely to ever be truly happy at any point in your life, and frankly, I feel not one bit of sympathy on account of it.

Damn, that felt good.

exactly.

it gets really old to hear opebo constantly belittle 'workers'

he isnt a member of the owning class.  his parents are owners.  opebo is simply a parasite

the man is in his late 30s and all he does is look for hookers.  he is in no position to belittle anyone.

[opebo]

Always of course, since that is the way the world works.

obebo, you live well outside reality and don't have a clue the way the world works.  It's pretty hilarious that a guy who lives off a trust fund, and blows his money on hookers and probably dope, should be telling people who have had some success in the world how it works.

No, I don't enjoy the dope.

it gets really old to hear opebo constantly belittle 'workers'

I never belittle workers waltermitty!  What an unfair accusation - they're already belittled by society.  I merely remind them of their position in the social heirarchy.

[opebo]

Always of course, since that is the way the world works.

Opebo, your entire life has been based around sucking up to your parents to ensure that you won't have to work a day in your life.  The only reason you're not a hobo out on the street is because your parents are too stupid to realize what you really want.

No, I am pretty sure they know me well, and certainly I'm the most rational product of the circumstances.  They may have preferred more gullible offspring, but one bears one's cross. 

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We all die alone, old Gabu.

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Money has an abosolute tyrranny over those without money.

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Existence is always meaningless, Gabu, for everyone.  Some people have delusions of meaning, but it is of course all subjective.

[/quote]

[angus]

I don't believe in silly class definitions.

I must admit that I'm with StatesRights (and Gandhi) on this one.  And I've never been too keen on groupthink either.  Or "untouchability" for that matter.  It's good to be part of the angus-statesrights-gandhi axis of egalitarianism and rebellious thinking.

In an unrelated matter, anyone seen Saving Silverman?  it's beginning on Comedy Cengral just now.

[opebo]

I don't believe in silly class definitions.

I must admit that I'm with StatesRights (and Gandhi) on this one.  And I've never been too keen on groupthink either.  Or "untouchability" for that matter.  It's good to be part of the angus-statesrights-gandhi axis of egalitarianism and rebellious thinking.

You're simply being unrealistic.  You are willfully avoiding the obvious observation that there is a huge gulf in terms of lifestyle, options, and power between the classes.  I'm not embracing any objective moral view of these two groups, just noting their obvious differences in practical terms.  You may as well criticize an practical observation of gravity's effects as  being 'groupthink'.

[angus]

actually, we have yet to come up with a Unifying Theory in physics, and in fact this a perfect example of your capacity for inadvertently saying something true once in a while.  Gravity may well be a figment of the collective imagination, and you may well be just our collective nightmare.

but back to earth, yeah, I suppose you're right, at least as far as practical observation is concerned.  Classless societies do not exist outside Gene Roddenbury's mind.  And the real world isn't an episode of Star Trek.  So you win by convincing me to vote NO, I am not a member of the owning class.  I still contend, like statesrights, that the classification is as arbitrary as any other you might invent, and I still contend, like Gandhi, that the classification is a greater detriment than benefit to society.

I've never owned land in my life, but I thoroughly enjoy my lifestyle.  Maybe my talents and interests make me just lucky enough to enjoy a reasonably comfortable lifestyle even though I was born Poor White Trash, second-generation American, non-WASP, and general untouchable, by Hindu standards.  Just like those commercials which feature cuts to American after American proudly proclaiming "I am Tiger Woods" in order to sell shoes, I'd like to see one which features the line "I am a Poor" repeatedly.  But more along the lines of those The More You Know public service announcements than corporate advertisements.

Reminds me of a Turk I knew in Guatemala.  We lived next door to each other for about two weeks.  You'd like him.  He was rather easy-going, and a big fan of hiring very young prostitutes and filming his exploits with them and showing the films to anyone who'd watch.  He introduced himself to me as "Ali.  Poor but proud."  I later noticed that he's always introduce himelf that way.  He was quite taken with his own arrogance and freedom.  And when question about why he always referred to himself as "...poor but proud..." he answered me by saying something like "Hey, anyone can be Rich and Proud.  I'm Poor and Proud."  Maybe that's typical Turk hubris, or even what you'd call Working-Class Hubris, but I thought it somewhat profound.

"My name is angus, and I am out and proud and Poor."   stay tuned.

[angus]

Silverman was a bust.  assinine.  and the South Park episode that followed ("Queer Eye for the Straight Guy") was pretty lame as well, and I'd already seen this episode of Will & Grace on channel 8, UPN for northeast MS.  Discovery is doing a Shark Attack show.  As if you had to ask.  oooh, Vertigo is on TCM, but the old lady can't stand 50s movies.  There's a BlockBuster about 7 blocks from here.  I've resisted the temptation to feed that beast for nearly 3 years now, but the temptation is becoming great.  Surely there must be something on TV.  Who's on Tim Russert tonight anyway, anyone know? 

[opebo]

I don't watch TV, nor do I see any connection between poverty or wealth and 'pride', since neither have anything to do with the person himself, but rather larger social forces, economic class, and access to power.  It would be absurd to feel personally responsible, and therefore proude, of one's wealth, or conversely ashamed of ones poverty.

However it is certainly true that a poor is humiliated every day, unlike a rich.

No, a more reasonable emotional responst to poverty is - anger, and I suppose the wealthy should simply feel lucky and perhaps a little afraid.

[DanielX]

Class status is very much arbitrary, at least in capitalist societies. If you want class differentiation, you have to look at feudalist societies; ie. 12th century Britain. And frankly, I'm convinced socialism (particularly communism as it has been practiced in most of the world) is a form of feudalism... only the 'serfs' aren't peasants and the beneficiaries aren't barons.

[Gustaf]

I voted no, though I'm not really sure about my family's financial situation. My mom originates from the owning class (owning mansions and the likes) but I think we're more upper-middle class as of today.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Class status is very much arbitrary, at least in capitalist societies

Rubbish. But it's idealistic rubbish unlike the nasty crap Opebo spouts so that's o.k.

[opebo]

Class status is very much arbitrary, at least in capitalist societies

Rubbish. But it's idealistic rubbish unlike the nasty crap Opebo spouts so that's o.k.

You find my opinions nasty?  I certainly agree that what I observe around me is exceedingly nasty.  But are you denying the importance of class in our society?

[Protect Trans Hoosiers]

I don't own a home, but I could buy one easily on my income.  We're moving in less than a year for my wife's grad school, at which time we'll probably buy a home.

We own two cars outright - no payments.

I voted yes.

[opebo]

I don't own a home, but I could buy one easily on my income.  We're moving in less than a year for my wife's grad school, at which time we'll probably buy a home.

We own two cars outright - no payments.

I voted yes.

Sheesh, man, owning a couple of cars is almost a liability.  You're certainly not in the owning class - you would need assests sufficient to provide a generous income without work in order to be.

[TheresNoMoney]

Opedo, how did your family make their money? Did your parents also come from wealthy families?

[opebo]

Opedo, how did your family make their money? Did your parents also come from wealthy families?

No, they were poors, raised to their current status by Keynesian economics and the Democratic Party during the era 1945-1980.  Luckily for them they had just enough money post-1980 to benefit from the owner-favouring policies since them.

In other words typical hubris-filled ignorant American ingrates.