Donald Trump Goes All In On Slashing Legal Immigration

[Kamala]

Yep, it's the immigrants destroying labor unions, not right to work laws.

Yep, it's the immigrants who are fighting against raising (and previously, establishing) the minimum wage, not the rich.

Yep, it's easy, real easy, to blame immigrants for everything.
First you break them down into the "other."
Then you dehumanize them.
Then you just dump your problems on the "scary brown invaders," ruining our country's racial purity.

It was all so blissful before the hordes arrived, right?

You guys claim to want to raise the minimum wage or make it easier to form unions, then you look the other way as employers hire illegal labor at sub-minimum wages and without labor protections from a union. Then you guys will cry about how things like vegetables will be too expensive if we don't use a permanent underclass of exploited labor to pick them for us. That sounds dehumanizing to me.

Don't you even try to make it seem like you care about undocumented workers. This is your strategy at work: try to divide people, make them work against each rather than against people like you.

You benefit from immigrants, documented and undocumented. Yet from your ivory tower you deride those beneath you.

You are the bottom of the barrel of the human gene pool. Disgusting, exploitive, ridiculous. You yourself, unless you're a Native American,  are a descendant of immigrants but you spit upon anyone who is making the same process as your family had. You were lucky enough to have ancestors who were born at the right time, had the right resources, and were of the right race. You have no standing, moral or economic, to claim that these new immigrants are worse than the people who were born in the United States. Your relatives destroyed not just the economy of the Native Americans, you destroyed their civilization.

You don't know me, and in fact you don't know sh!t. Everything you said is dead wrong.

I may know nothing, but your beliefs define your character. Your character defines your destiny. I see nothing but hate in your heart.

[Famous Mortimer]

Yep, it's the immigrants destroying labor unions, not right to work laws.

Yep, it's the immigrants who are fighting against raising (and previously, establishing) the minimum wage, not the rich.

Yep, it's easy, real easy, to blame immigrants for everything.
First you break them down into the "other."
Then you dehumanize them.
Then you just dump your problems on the "scary brown invaders," ruining our country's racial purity.

It was all so blissful before the hordes arrived, right?

You guys claim to want to raise the minimum wage or make it easier to form unions, then you look the other way as employers hire illegal labor at sub-minimum wages and without labor protections from a union. Then you guys will cry about how things like vegetables will be too expensive if we don't use a permanent underclass of exploited labor to pick them for us. That sounds dehumanizing to me.

Don't you even try to make it seem like you care about undocumented workers. This is your strategy at work: try to divide people, make them work against each rather than against people like you.

You benefit from immigrants, documented and undocumented. Yet from your ivory tower you deride those beneath you.

You are the bottom of the barrel of the human gene pool. Disgusting, exploitive, ridiculous. You yourself, unless you're a Native American,  are a descendant of immigrants but you spit upon anyone who is making the same process as your family had. You were lucky enough to have ancestors who were born at the right time, had the right resources, and were of the right race. You have no standing, moral or economic, to claim that these new immigrants are worse than the people who were born in the United States. Your relatives destroyed not just the economy of the Native Americans, you destroyed their civilization.

I'm not claiming people born in America are better people than immigrants. I am claiming people born in America have more right to live in America than people who weren't born in America.

Just like people born in Mexico have more right to live in Mexico than people not born in Mexico.

[Kamala]

Yep, it's the immigrants destroying labor unions, not right to work laws.

Yep, it's the immigrants who are fighting against raising (and previously, establishing) the minimum wage, not the rich.

Yep, it's easy, real easy, to blame immigrants for everything.
First you break them down into the "other."
Then you dehumanize them.
Then you just dump your problems on the "scary brown invaders," ruining our country's racial purity.

It was all so blissful before the hordes arrived, right?

You guys claim to want to raise the minimum wage or make it easier to form unions, then you look the other way as employers hire illegal labor at sub-minimum wages and without labor protections from a union. Then you guys will cry about how things like vegetables will be too expensive if we don't use a permanent underclass of exploited labor to pick them for us. That sounds dehumanizing to me.

Don't you even try to make it seem like you care about undocumented workers. This is your strategy at work: try to divide people, make them work against each rather than against people like you.

You benefit from immigrants, documented and undocumented. Yet from your ivory tower you deride those beneath you.

You are the bottom of the barrel of the human gene pool. Disgusting, exploitive, ridiculous. You yourself, unless you're a Native American,  are a descendant of immigrants but you spit upon anyone who is making the same process as your family had. You were lucky enough to have ancestors who were born at the right time, had the right resources, and were of the right race. You have no standing, moral or economic, to claim that these new immigrants are worse than the people who were born in the United States. Your relatives destroyed not just the economy of the Native Americans, you destroyed their civilization.

I'm not claiming people born in America are better people than immigrants. I am claiming people born in America have more right to live in America than people who weren't born in America.

Just like people born in Mexico have more right to live in Mexico than people not born in Mexico.

And why is that? Most people born in America are descendants of immigrants. They have as much "right" to live in America as immigrants do. The only people who have any legitimate "right" to live in America are Native Americans.

[Jeffster]

Yep, it's the immigrants destroying labor unions, not right to work laws.

Yep, it's the immigrants who are fighting against raising (and previously, establishing) the minimum wage, not the rich.

Yep, it's easy, real easy, to blame immigrants for everything.
First you break them down into the "other."
Then you dehumanize them.
Then you just dump your problems on the "scary brown invaders," ruining our country's racial purity.

It was all so blissful before the hordes arrived, right?

You guys claim to want to raise the minimum wage or make it easier to form unions, then you look the other way as employers hire illegal labor at sub-minimum wages and without labor protections from a union. Then you guys will cry about how things like vegetables will be too expensive if we don't use a permanent underclass of exploited labor to pick them for us. That sounds dehumanizing to me.

Don't you even try to make it seem like you care about undocumented workers. This is your strategy at work: try to divide people, make them work against each rather than against people like you.

You benefit from immigrants, documented and undocumented. Yet from your ivory tower you deride those beneath you.

You are the bottom of the barrel of the human gene pool. Disgusting, exploitive, ridiculous. You yourself, unless you're a Native American,  are a descendant of immigrants but you spit upon anyone who is making the same process as your family had. You were lucky enough to have ancestors who were born at the right time, had the right resources, and were of the right race. You have no standing, moral or economic, to claim that these new immigrants are worse than the people who were born in the United States. Your relatives destroyed not just the economy of the Native Americans, you destroyed their civilization.

You don't know me, and in fact you don't know sh!t. Everything you said is dead wrong.

I may know nothing, but your beliefs define your character. Your character defines your destiny. I see nothing but hate in your heart.

You ignore all of my economic arguments and have attacked me personally. You obviously have no legitimate arguments to make on this issue.

[Daniel909012]

Without a point system, immigration is a disaster, such as what happens in Spain

[Famous Mortimer]

I still want to know why immigrants aren't a boon for the economy in their countries of origin.

[Kamala]

Yep, it's the immigrants destroying labor unions, not right to work laws.

Yep, it's the immigrants who are fighting against raising (and previously, establishing) the minimum wage, not the rich.

Yep, it's easy, real easy, to blame immigrants for everything.
First you break them down into the "other."
Then you dehumanize them.
Then you just dump your problems on the "scary brown invaders," ruining our country's racial purity.

It was all so blissful before the hordes arrived, right?

You guys claim to want to raise the minimum wage or make it easier to form unions, then you look the other way as employers hire illegal labor at sub-minimum wages and without labor protections from a union. Then you guys will cry about how things like vegetables will be too expensive if we don't use a permanent underclass of exploited labor to pick them for us. That sounds dehumanizing to me.

Don't you even try to make it seem like you care about undocumented workers. This is your strategy at work: try to divide people, make them work against each rather than against people like you.

You benefit from immigrants, documented and undocumented. Yet from your ivory tower you deride those beneath you.

You are the bottom of the barrel of the human gene pool. Disgusting, exploitive, ridiculous. You yourself, unless you're a Native American,  are a descendant of immigrants but you spit upon anyone who is making the same process as your family had. You were lucky enough to have ancestors who were born at the right time, had the right resources, and were of the right race. You have no standing, moral or economic, to claim that these new immigrants are worse than the people who were born in the United States. Your relatives destroyed not just the economy of the Native Americans, you destroyed their civilization.

You don't know me, and in fact you don't know sh!t. Everything you said is dead wrong.

I may know nothing, but your beliefs define your character. Your character defines your destiny. I see nothing but hate in your heart.

You ignore all of my economic arguments and have attacked me personally. You obviously have no legitimate arguments to make on this issue.

You made dubious economic arguments with extremely spurious correlations. There's no way to refute an illogical debater with illogical arguments.

[Famous Mortimer]

It's not extremely spurious to say that when there are more people looking for work (including millions of people used to a lower standard of living, who would consider even less than minimum wage a lot of money), employers can get away with paying workers less.

[Jeffster]

I still want to know why immigrants aren't a boon for the economy in their countries of origin.

There is also the ignored issue of brain drain. If you simply let every skilled person from a third world country immigrate into the first world, then who will modernize that third world country?

[Jeffster]

Yep, it's the immigrants destroying labor unions, not right to work laws.

Yep, it's the immigrants who are fighting against raising (and previously, establishing) the minimum wage, not the rich.

Yep, it's easy, real easy, to blame immigrants for everything.
First you break them down into the "other."
Then you dehumanize them.
Then you just dump your problems on the "scary brown invaders," ruining our country's racial purity.

It was all so blissful before the hordes arrived, right?

You guys claim to want to raise the minimum wage or make it easier to form unions, then you look the other way as employers hire illegal labor at sub-minimum wages and without labor protections from a union. Then you guys will cry about how things like vegetables will be too expensive if we don't use a permanent underclass of exploited labor to pick them for us. That sounds dehumanizing to me.

Don't you even try to make it seem like you care about undocumented workers. This is your strategy at work: try to divide people, make them work against each rather than against people like you.

You benefit from immigrants, documented and undocumented. Yet from your ivory tower you deride those beneath you.

You are the bottom of the barrel of the human gene pool. Disgusting, exploitive, ridiculous. You yourself, unless you're a Native American,  are a descendant of immigrants but you spit upon anyone who is making the same process as your family had. You were lucky enough to have ancestors who were born at the right time, had the right resources, and were of the right race. You have no standing, moral or economic, to claim that these new immigrants are worse than the people who were born in the United States. Your relatives destroyed not just the economy of the Native Americans, you destroyed their civilization.

You don't know me, and in fact you don't know sh!t. Everything you said is dead wrong.

I may know nothing, but your beliefs define your character. Your character defines your destiny. I see nothing but hate in your heart.

You ignore all of my economic arguments and have attacked me personally. You obviously have no legitimate arguments to make on this issue.

You made dubious economic arguments with extremely spurious correlations. There's no way to refute an illogical debater with illogical arguments.

Do you deny that wages have stagnated for working Americans over the same period we increased the number of immigrants in this country? You can't see how increasing the supply of labor at a time when  the demand for labor due to automation is decreasing will cause downward pressure on wages?

[Famous Mortimer]

Yep, it's the immigrants destroying labor unions, not right to work laws.

Yep, it's the immigrants who are fighting against raising (and previously, establishing) the minimum wage, not the rich.

Yep, it's easy, real easy, to blame immigrants for everything.
First you break them down into the "other."
Then you dehumanize them.
Then you just dump your problems on the "scary brown invaders," ruining our country's racial purity.

It was all so blissful before the hordes arrived, right?

You guys claim to want to raise the minimum wage or make it easier to form unions, then you look the other way as employers hire illegal labor at sub-minimum wages and without labor protections from a union. Then you guys will cry about how things like vegetables will be too expensive if we don't use a permanent underclass of exploited labor to pick them for us. That sounds dehumanizing to me.

Don't you even try to make it seem like you care about undocumented workers. This is your strategy at work: try to divide people, make them work against each rather than against people like you.

You benefit from immigrants, documented and undocumented. Yet from your ivory tower you deride those beneath you.

You are the bottom of the barrel of the human gene pool. Disgusting, exploitive, ridiculous. You yourself, unless you're a Native American,  are a descendant of immigrants but you spit upon anyone who is making the same process as your family had. You were lucky enough to have ancestors who were born at the right time, had the right resources, and were of the right race. You have no standing, moral or economic, to claim that these new immigrants are worse than the people who were born in the United States. Your relatives destroyed not just the economy of the Native Americans, you destroyed their civilization.

You don't know me, and in fact you don't know sh!t. Everything you said is dead wrong.

I may know nothing, but your beliefs define your character. Your character defines your destiny. I see nothing but hate in your heart.

You ignore all of my economic arguments and have attacked me personally. You obviously have no legitimate arguments to make on this issue.

You made dubious economic arguments with extremely spurious correlations. There's no way to refute an illogical debater with illogical arguments.

Do you deny that wages have stagnated for working Americans over the same period we increased the number of immigrants in this country? You can't see how increasing the supply of labor at a time when  the demand for labor due to automation is decreasing will cause downward pressure on wages?

As best I can tell, his argument is: because immigration isn't the ONLY cause of stagnating wages, that means it can't be a cause at all, even partially.

This is, of course, not logical at all.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I still want to know why immigrants aren't a boon for the economy in their countries of origin.

You need a good system to work in. Do you think a Venezuelan has better prospects for doing well here than they would in Maduroland or not?

[Jeffster]

Yep, it's the immigrants destroying labor unions, not right to work laws.

Yep, it's the immigrants who are fighting against raising (and previously, establishing) the minimum wage, not the rich.

Yep, it's easy, real easy, to blame immigrants for everything.
First you break them down into the "other."
Then you dehumanize them.
Then you just dump your problems on the "scary brown invaders," ruining our country's racial purity.

It was all so blissful before the hordes arrived, right?

You guys claim to want to raise the minimum wage or make it easier to form unions, then you look the other way as employers hire illegal labor at sub-minimum wages and without labor protections from a union. Then you guys will cry about how things like vegetables will be too expensive if we don't use a permanent underclass of exploited labor to pick them for us. That sounds dehumanizing to me.

Don't you even try to make it seem like you care about undocumented workers. This is your strategy at work: try to divide people, make them work against each rather than against people like you.

You benefit from immigrants, documented and undocumented. Yet from your ivory tower you deride those beneath you.

You are the bottom of the barrel of the human gene pool. Disgusting, exploitive, ridiculous. You yourself, unless you're a Native American,  are a descendant of immigrants but you spit upon anyone who is making the same process as your family had. You were lucky enough to have ancestors who were born at the right time, had the right resources, and were of the right race. You have no standing, moral or economic, to claim that these new immigrants are worse than the people who were born in the United States. Your relatives destroyed not just the economy of the Native Americans, you destroyed their civilization.

You don't know me, and in fact you don't know sh!t. Everything you said is dead wrong.

I may know nothing, but your beliefs define your character. Your character defines your destiny. I see nothing but hate in your heart.

You ignore all of my economic arguments and have attacked me personally. You obviously have no legitimate arguments to make on this issue.

You made dubious economic arguments with extremely spurious correlations. There's no way to refute an illogical debater with illogical arguments.

Do you deny that wages have stagnated for working Americans over the same period we increased the number of immigrants in this country? You can't see how increasing the supply of labor at a time when  the demand for labor due to automation is decreasing will cause downward pressure on wages?

As best I can tell, his argument is: because immigration isn't the ONLY cause of stagnating wages, that means it can't be a cause at all, even partially.

This is, of course, not logical at all.

Yeah, they want to ignore one of the factors in declining wages because they benefit from it politically. I have no problems increasing taxes on the wealthy and increasing the minimum wage, and introducing card check to make it easier to form unions, and adjusting our trade deals so they don't allow the exploitation of labor and the environment in the third world. Let's do an all of the above approach to the issue. Instead most Democrats only want to focus on part of those ideas and some Trump Republicans focus on the other, while nothing ever gets done. That's why I'm so fed up with all of them.

[Famous Mortimer]

I still want to know why immigrants aren't a boon for the economy in their countries of origin.

You need a good system to work in. Do you think a Venezuelan has better prospects for doing well here than they would in Maduroland or not?

So you are admitting what I said originally, that immigration is charity. They are coming here to have access to our better institutions and infrastructure. I understand why they would want it. I don't blame them. I would want it too. I don't think it should be required for the US government to give it to them though. The US government should take care of its own citizens first.

If we try to take care of everyone in the world, we're not going to provide very good care, and that's why standards of living have declined since we started taking in massive numbers of immigrants in 1965.

[AtorBoltox]

Mortimer has obviously never set foot outside the United States if he actually thinks NYC is a third world city

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I still want to know why immigrants aren't a boon for the economy in their countries of origin.

You need a good system to work in. Do you think a Venezuelan has better prospects for doing well here than they would in Maduroland or not?

So you are admitting what I said originally, that immigration is charity. They are coming here to have access to our better institutions and infrastructure.

No, I'm not. The things that really make America great, our justice, compassion, and rule of law aren't finite. Economics is not a zero-sum system. Indeed, economics is based upon the premise that by interacting with others, both parties are better off.

[Famous Mortimer]

I still want to know why immigrants aren't a boon for the economy in their countries of origin.

You need a good system to work in. Do you think a Venezuelan has better prospects for doing well here than they would in Maduroland or not?

So you are admitting what I said originally, that immigration is charity. They are coming here to have access to our better institutions and infrastructure.

No, I'm not. The things that really make America great, our justice, compassion, and rule of law aren't finite. Economics is not a zero-sum system. Indeed, economics is based upon the premise that by interacting with others, both parties are better off.

Yes, intangible concepts are not finite. Stuff that actually makes America nice to live in though, material resources, are finite though.

Again, just having a lot of people does not make an economy strong, if that was the case, India would have the best economy in the world.

[AtorBoltox]

I still want to know why immigrants aren't a boon for the economy in their countries of origin.

You need a good system to work in. Do you think a Venezuelan has better prospects for doing well here than they would in Maduroland or not?

So you are admitting what I said originally, that immigration is charity. They are coming here to have access to our better institutions and infrastructure.

No, I'm not. The things that really make America great, our justice, compassion, and rule of law aren't finite. Economics is not a zero-sum system. Indeed, economics is based upon the premise that by interacting with others, both parties are better off.

Yes, intangible concepts are not finite. Stuff that actually makes America nice to live in though, material resources, are finite though.

Again, just having a lot of people does not make an economy strong, if that was the case, India would have the best economy in the world.

There's a reason India and China will overtake the USA as the world's largest economies by 2050. Hint- it begins with p and ends with opulation

[Devout Centrist]

To be fair, we should probably deport a WillipsBrighton for every immigrant we receive. Best of both worlds.

[Kingpoleon]

Isn't this similar to the Australian and Canadian systems?

Unfortunately, yes. This is a necessary tradeoff leftists who want a welfare state must accept.

[Devout Centrist]

Isn't this similar to the Australian and Canadian systems?

Unfortunately, yes. This is a necessary tradeoff leftists who want a welfare state must accept.

Not really, no.

Merits based systems are not necessary for a welfare state. Especially as we move into the automation age.

[JA]

Attention

Due to the amount of thinly veiled, if not explicitly, bigoted comments being made repeatedly for 7 pages of this thread, I am closing it. I understand immigration is a hot button issue and there is a lot of passion on both sides, but this is my thread and I will not allow it to become a platform for hate. Thank you to every poster here who has defended the disadvantaged and vulnerable by rebuking, refuting, and opposing the xenophobia and other assorted -isms being espoused by the forum's misguided members. Your contributions have been greatly appreciated. But I do not have to tolerate hate speech of certain members, nor will I.

Thread Closed