If the election of 1988 were held today...

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

...what would a map look like?

Dukakis picks up CA, MD, DE, CT, IL and VT.

Bush picks up IA, MN, WI, and WV (4 of the "Dukakis Five").

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Ron Paul for Prez!!!!

EstA loco.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

beef, didnt you used to be  a libertarian?  or do i have you confused with someone else?

I have some moderate libertarian views - the theory that government exists solely to protect our rights is fundamentally correct in my mind.  And for a while I thought about voting for Badnarik until I heard him on NPR and decided he was too extreme to support.  I also have some populist leanings. 

I just think the idea that Ron Paul could have done any better now than he did in 1988 is loco.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

So what are you doing in the socialist party?

Heh.

I believe that government exists to protect our rights.  Well, one of the rights we have is the pursuit of happiness - we have the right to make a decent living from honest work, and not become the chattle of huge multinational corporations, to be discarded when we no longer fit into the bottom line.

Wake up and look around.  The forces of unbridaled capitalism are taking away the livelihoods of millions of Americans.  Manufacturing in the US is almost dead, because we have to compete with cheap overseas labor, itself abused with attrocious living conditions and miniscule wages.  Our nation is so far in debt that we're being bought up with foreign capital.  So our slavemasters aren't even Americans!  And those of us who can make a decent living live in constant fear of bankruptcy due to lack of or inadequate health insurance.  I make a very nice wage, have no debt, and save about 25% of my income.  But I am one bad illness away from being wiped out financially.

Do you want to go back to the late-19th century?  Do you know what life was like for the common American back then?

You can't escape socialism.  Our schools are socialized.  Our highways are socialized.  Some things just make sense to run collectively.  It's time to re-evaluate our economic ideals and join the rest of the civilized world.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Hey, what do you think about Feingold running for President?

He's twice-divorced and voted against banning partial-birth abortion.  There are Democrats to bring the message of economic revival to the heartland.  Feingold is not one of them.

I really like him, I've always liked him, but there is zero chance of him being elected President.  And his vote on partial-birth abortion really pissed me off.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Why should you be able to pursue happiness, but not the corporation? Surely, the people who run the corporation have the right to pursue happiness by firing you, under your argument?

The rights of the individual do not apply to corporations.  Corporations are a tool to serve individuals.  Not the other way around.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

In any event, the notion of a so-called "right to pursue happiness" is rather arbitrary. If it exists, it does not override another person's right to property.

Well, by that logic we should have no tax whatsoever.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

In any event, the notion of a so-called "right to pursue happiness" is rather arbitrary. If it exists, it does not override another person's right to property.

Well, by that logic we should have no tax whatsoever.

No, not so. The power to tax is absolutely independent of the "right to pursue happiness." Taxation is a justified measure insomuch as it provides for the protection of individual rights and for the general welfare.

In any event, you haven't answered my previous question. Why should your boss not be entitled to "pursue happiness" by firing you? Why should your happiness take precedence over his?

I think you are twisting my original point and trying to get me to defend a straw man.  Of course a company should be able to fire you, or lay you off.  A company has to stay competitive; stay profitable. 

However...

When there is too loose of a state grip on economic activities, the forces of big money and large corporations naturally work to crush the little man.  People lose the ability to gain a fair living through honest work.  And because we've opened the floodgates of globalism, we're competing on an unfair footing with foreign nations with a drastically different business environment and living conditions from our own.

We have a right to have some amount of control of our own lives and our own destinies.  And runaway anarcho-capitalism is taking that freedom away from us.

What's the difference between government taking away our freedom, and Big Business taking away our freedom?  None, I say!