Why does Bernie appeal to conservatives?

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

I think that many rural voters, as I believe other posters have said in the past, prefer "government that works for them" to "small government." That's where Bernie's crossover appeal comes from.

This.

I also think that part of the reason is that he's stuck to the same left wing views his entire life. He's seen as a symbol of honesty; as Henry Rollins said "Whether you agree with him or not, you know he's gonna come in throught the front door."

Not really, though. He has a reputation for it, but he's changed positions for political convienence plenty.

[Morgan Kingsley]

Because unlike Hillary, at least Bernie wasn't annoying about what he said all the time

[TJ in Oregon]

Because a lot of Republican voters are actually opposed to tax cuts for the rich, support the universal aspects of the social safety net (read: Social Security and Medicare), and are angry about mass job losses and the overall hollowing out of rural communities from the deindustrialization caused by the same technological advances and trade agreements that have recently been championed by politicians in both major parties - especially, in the case of the Democratic Party, Hillary Clinton and other exemplars of the Beltway "Establishment." When combined with Hillary having over two decades of being a flashpoint for the American Right's hatred of Democrats, liberals, and feminists, as well as Bernie having been the closest thing to an outsider in DC over the same time period (not technically a Democrat, ideologically and politically very consistent, actually disdains the Money Men rather than court their support), this all becomes easier to understand.

Let's not overstate the case, though; A lot of Republicans do indeed see Sanders and his supporters as Loony Leftists or even dangerous Communist and anarchist America-haters, and things like the Scalise shooting along with some of the people associated with Antifa, Black Bloc, etc. certainly haven't helped weaken that perception.

^This is more or less the answer.

There are a couple other things to add too. One is that Bernie is seen as being a man of principles that seem well-meaning, which, even though we don't agree with his principles, we can often respect the man. A second is that Bernie sells himself in a way that at least gives the appearance of wanting to do things for the people, however misguided they might be. A third is simply that he lost the primary. The way the US media covers presidential campaigns, partisans of both sides pretty much always have an improved opinion of the loser of the other side's primary. Consider the Republicans' view of Hillary in the Obama years or the Democrats' current view of John Kasich. Be wary, though, that much of that goodwill will evaporate during an actual campaign where the opponents' preferred candidate is nominated.

[Mr. Morden]

Because he wasn't the nominee. Conservatives liked Obama in January 2008 because he wasn't Clinton, then started "liking" Clinton when it was clear Obama would win. If Bernie had won the nomination, they would have called him a Communist, and probably become anti-Semites.

Yes, though with Sanders there's also the "anti-establishment" factor.  Unlike both leading Dem. candidates in 2008, Sanders has been rather critical of the Democratic Party as an institution, which again plays well with some conservatives.  But yeah, if he were to actually become the nominee, then he'd become the establishment, just like Trump is now the GOP establishment.  And that means becoming the avatar of the party which the "other side" despises.

[Famous Mortimer]

The reason conservatives vote against welfare isn't because they dislike welfare.

Nobody dislikes welfare. In fact, everyone loves getting welfare.

Conservatives vote against welfare because they are aware that the type of means tested, racially targeted welfare that exists in America does not benefit them at all. They are aware that they will be taxed more and they will continue to get nothing. They will pay money and other people will get the stuff.

Bernie Sanders, and socialists and universalists in general, are advocating a different type of welfare, where EVERYONE gets stuff.

Conservatives are perfectly willing to support welfare, and possibly even pay for it and pay more for it, as long as they actually get a benefit from it.

[This is Eharding, guys]

Bernie did not appeal to "conservatives", he appealed to purists. Please consult the Utah and Mississippi (or Tennessee) Dem primary results for reference.

[Famous Mortimer]

Bernie did not appeal to "conservatives", he appealed to purists. Please consult the Utah and Mississippi (or Tennessee) Dem primary results for reference.

There are no conservative Democrats in Utah. None.

However he did win Dixiecrats in Oklahoma and the Florida panhandle but I think he only did that because anyone who is still a Dixiecrat in 2016 is an extremely low information voter who was just voting against Clinton and had no idea who Sanders was.

[This is Eharding, guys]

Bernie did not appeal to "conservatives", he appealed to purists. Please consult the Utah and Mississippi (or Tennessee) Dem primary results for reference.

There are no conservative Democrats in Utah. None.

However he did win Dixiecrats in Oklahoma and the Florida panhandle but I think he only did that because anyone who is still a Dixiecrat in 2016 is an extremely low information voter who was just voting against Clinton and had no idea who Sanders was.

In that case, Sanders simply did not have any appeal to conservatives. Only purists. Yes, the dixiecrat vote was pure protest vote against the inevitable inheritor of Barack Obama's legacy. More votes were cast in West Virginia's Democratic primary than Clinton got in the general election.

[PragmaticPopulist]

Bernie did not appeal to "conservatives", he appealed to purists. Please consult the Utah and Mississippi (or Tennessee) Dem primary results for reference.

The Mississippi and Tennessee Dem primary voters are almost all African-American, and they broke heavily for Hillary Clinton. In Tennessee, Sanders did best in heavily white counties in eastern Tennessee, while in Mississsippi, he did best in the eastern part of the state, away from the heavily-black Mississippi River area.

[Shadows]

Bernie Sanders has always had reasonable cross-over appeal. In VT he has won many socially conservative areas by trying to unite people for an economic agenda which works for low income people. There is a big chunk of socially moderate/conservative & economically liberal people & Bernie appealed to them by harping less on identity politics, political calculation, through a personal appeal & honesty & an inclusive agenda.

Abortion, Gay Marriage, Guns still tend to be divisive issues in many rural culturally conservative areas & Sanders had a very liberal abortion & gay marriage record but he chose to focus on a uniting economic message.

This is similar to what FDR did, uber lefty & super liberal (way to the left of Sanders) but he consistently won many conservative areas including the south by uniting people around an economic message !

[Shadows]

Some key points from the article -

“Sanders has focused primarily on economic issues on which Americans are not divided,” says Elizabeth Coggins, a professor at Colorado College who studies American political psychology and ideological identification. “There is a strong consensus in agreement with Sanders on many of his core ideas, and his rhetoric has been largely centered on these sorts of issues.”

Others point I saw in the article - Fiery personality, honesty, Economic agenda, Going after the banks, Likeability as a person etc.

As I said, the number of people who are economically liberal are far higher than conservatives (including many conservatives who don't know liberal they are !)

[Dabeav]

Bernie is/was likable. He's not condescending, doesn't have years of "experience" that includes some probably criminal activities.  He's a little too socialist but as just one person, even as president, his more extreme ideas I knew would not come to pass.

[Yank2133]

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This completely wrong.

The biggest benefactors of social programs in the US is the GOP base.

[Mister Mets]

I think a big part of it is that he ran against Hillary, and has had some fights with the Democratic establishment. Republicans will feel differently when it's him versus Trump, rather than him versus Wasserman-Schultz.

[Mr. Smith]

The reason conservatives vote against welfare isn't because they dislike welfare.

Nobody dislikes welfare. In fact, everyone loves getting welfare.

Conservatives vote against welfare because they are aware that the type of means tested, racially targeted welfare that exists in America does not benefit them at all. They are aware that they will be taxed more and they will continue to get nothing. They will pay money and other people will get the stuff.

Bernie Sanders, and socialists and universalists in general, are advocating a different type of welfare, where EVERYONE gets stuff.

Conservatives are perfectly willing to support welfare, and possibly even pay for it and pay more for it, as long as they actually get a benefit from it.

The rich hate it usually.

Also, the ones who do love them some welfare want it for themselves only...or they don't want to pay for it.

[RINO Tom]

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This completely wrong.

The biggest benefactors of social programs in the US is the GOP base.

I'd be careful by that assumtion ... the poorest people in many red states (MS and AL, for example) are heavily Democratic-voting Black Americans who really don't deserve the bolded attitude from their supposed political allies, and even if a state like KY votes 60% GOP, it's perfectly possible that a majority of its citizens on welfare are getting the Democrats up to their 35% or so.

[heatcharger]

Bernie lays out his policies in a way that 'regular people' can digest it easily. Even if you disagree with him, you know what he stands for, and for some people, that alone is a positive attribute. Plus what Mortimer said.

But this really should not be overstated. His inflated favorability numbers will fall if he becomes the frontrunner for the nomination in 2020. He's got a lot of baggage that Clinton's camp was nice enough not to touch.

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This completely wrong.

The biggest benefactors of social programs in the US is the GOP base.

I'd be careful by that assumtion ... the poorest people in many red states (MS and AL, for example) are heavily Democratic-voting Black Americans who really don't deserve the bolded attitude from their supposed political allies, and even if a state like KY votes 60% GOP, it's perfectly possible that a majority of its citizens on welfare are getting the Democrats up to their 35% or so.

I mean, probably not. Check out these maps of government benefits usage. Look at where welfare usage is the highest in Kentucky and then compare it to Trump's vote share there. While the poor Black South is certainly a large recipient of government welfare, so is the poor White South, Appalachia, upper Michigan, and Maine for whatever reason.

[RINO Tom]

Bernie lays out his policies in a way that 'regular people' can digest it easily. Even if you disagree with him, you know what he stands for, and for some people, that alone is a positive attribute. Plus what Mortimer said.

But this really should not be overstated. His inflated favorability numbers will fall if he becomes the frontrunner for the nomination in 2020. He's got a lot of baggage that Clinton's camp was nice enough not to touch.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This completely wrong.

The biggest benefactors of social programs in the US is the GOP base.

I'd be careful by that assumtion ... the poorest people in many red states (MS and AL, for example) are heavily Democratic-voting Black Americans who really don't deserve the bolded attitude from their supposed political allies, and even if a state like KY votes 60% GOP, it's perfectly possible that a majority of its citizens on welfare are getting the Democrats up to their 35% or so.

I mean, probably not. Check out these maps of government benefits usage. Look at where welfare usage is the highest in Kentucky and then compare it to Trump's vote share there. While the poor Black South is certainly a large recipient of government welfare, so is the poor White South, Appalachia, upper Michigan, and Maine for whatever reason.

True, maybe not with KY on federal races ... I'm just saying, your first statement was too broad.  Using that map, the Democratic areas of Arizona and New Mexico are where most welfare users are, so if you lived in AZ you could make some statement like "Democrats use all of the welfare," totally disregarding a state like WV.

[GGover]

Bernie Sanders has always had reasonable cross-over appeal. In VT he has won many socially conservative areas by trying to unite people for an economic agenda which works for low income people. There is a big chunk of socially moderate/conservative & economically liberal people & Bernie appealed to them by harping less on identity politics, political calculation, through a personal appeal & honesty & an inclusive agenda.

Abortion, Gay Marriage, Guns still tend to be divisive issues in many rural culturally conservative areas & Sanders had a very liberal abortion & gay marriage record but he chose to focus on a uniting economic message.

This is similar to what FDR did, uber lefty & super liberal (way to the left of Sanders) but he consistently won many conservative areas including the south by uniting people around an economic message !

I think you hit the nail on the head. As I remember, Sanders' record on guns and race were his weak spots. Clinton even tried to blame the gun problem in New York on the lax gun laws in Vermont. It was a pretty absurd argument, and I recall the debate moderators even calling her out on it, but she was still able to paint him as someone from a white rural state that was too weak on guns and race matters.

[Famous Mortimer]

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This completely wrong.

The biggest benefactors of social programs in the US is the GOP base.

Yeah, most people who are on welfare are White.

Also, most people who get shot by the cops are White.

Stop pretending like you don't understand proportionality.

[Shadows]

Bernie Sanders has always had reasonable cross-over appeal. In VT he has won many socially conservative areas by trying to unite people for an economic agenda which works for low income people. There is a big chunk of socially moderate/conservative & economically liberal people & Bernie appealed to them by harping less on identity politics, political calculation, through a personal appeal & honesty & an inclusive agenda.

Abortion, Gay Marriage, Guns still tend to be divisive issues in many rural culturally conservative areas & Sanders had a very liberal abortion & gay marriage record but he chose to focus on a uniting economic message.

This is similar to what FDR did, uber lefty & super liberal (way to the left of Sanders) but he consistently won many conservative areas including the south by uniting people around an economic message !

I think you hit the nail on the head. As I remember, Sanders' record on guns and race were his weak spots. Clinton even tried to blame the gun problem in New York on the lax gun laws in Vermont. It was a pretty absurd argument, and I recall the debate moderators even calling her out on it, but she was still able to paint him as someone from a white rural state that was too weak on guns and race matters.

Record on race? The guy supported affirmative action, went to jail to protest against segregation. A Goldwater girl who coined the term Super-predators pushing harsher penalties & who campaign started the Obama maybe a Muslim Kenyan talking about race to Sanders?

Anyways it does help that Clinton wanted to pin Sanders as a pro-gun (despite a D- minus record), white rural male candidate with no ties or support of the Democratic establishment, no support from corporations and the business candidate with scant appeal or reach to the black community. She herself painted him as the anti-establishment, outsider candidate with no ties to any of the establishment factions or the Democratic party !

[NOVA Green]

Bernie Sanders has always had reasonable cross-over appeal. In VT he has won many socially conservative areas by trying to unite people for an economic agenda which works for low income people. There is a big chunk of socially moderate/conservative & economically liberal people & Bernie appealed to them by harping less on identity politics, political calculation, through a personal appeal & honesty & an inclusive agenda.

Abortion, Gay Marriage, Guns still tend to be divisive issues in many rural culturally conservative areas & Sanders had a very liberal abortion & gay marriage record but he chose to focus on a uniting economic message.

This is similar to what FDR did, uber lefty & super liberal (way to the left of Sanders) but he consistently won many conservative areas including the south by uniting people around an economic message !

I think you hit the nail on the head. As I remember, Sanders' record on guns and race were his weak spots. Clinton even tried to blame the gun problem in New York on the lax gun laws in Vermont. It was a pretty absurd argument, and I recall the debate moderators even calling her out on it, but she was still able to paint him as someone from a white rural state that was too weak on guns and race matters.

Record on race? The guy supported affirmative action, went to jail to protest against segregation. A Goldwater girl who coined the term Super-predators pushing harsher penalties & who campaign started the Obama maybe a Muslim Kenyan talking about race to Sanders?

Anyways it does help that Clinton wanted to pin Sanders as a pro-gun (despite a D- minus record), white rural male candidate with no ties or support of the Democratic establishment, no support from corporations and the business candidate with scant appeal or reach to the black community. She herself painted him as the anti-establishment, outsider candidate with no ties to any of the establishment factions or the Democratic party !

Yet another cool thread, with a bunch of posters making some pretty solid points...

hcallega, Pragmatic Populist, McGovern4Prez, Ted Bessell, PR, Techno Timmy, GoTfan, Mr. Morden, Shadows, in order of posting.

My thoughts are this:

1.) Bernie was laser focused on economic justice issues in an era where the vast majority of American voters feel abandoned by both political parties. His support in many extremely economically depressed rural areas, including some heavily Republican Counties, was widely received as offering an alternative vision to the two-party consensus.

2.) Authenticity- HRC and Trump both flip-flopped like crazy during the '16 Primary and General Election Campaigns. Even by the standards of flip-flopping in Modern American Political History, this was a mind blowing election.

3.) Rural "Democrat" is a fresh concept, considering how states like New York (Clinton), Illinois (Obama), Massachusetts (Kerry) are viewed in many parts of Middle America. Heck, even Gore was tainted by virtue of being a Veep under Clinton and too many years in Washington cost him Tennessee in '00.

4.) Main Street vs Wall Street--- Many of y'all on the Forum don't necessarily understand how upset average Americans from all regions and political backgrounds are, by the economic collapse and the Great Recession. Although running against Wall Street isn't going to win a ton of votes in NYC/NJ/SE CT, we all know how we got screw** by the collapse of '08.

Most Americans do not support banking deregulation, since that is what caused the s**t to happen in the first place.

Health Care- There are many conservatives that support some variation of government funded health care in the US. Not sure if anyone out here has Senior family members trying to cover the gaps in their Medicare plans rolling through 3rd Party providers, and having to pay through the nose for the cost of their medical care.

5.) Foreign Policy- For all of the NeoCons and Pro-War supporters of regime change out there, the mood of the American public has shifted dramatically within both the Democratic and Republican Parties, as well as "Independent" Voters.

After the flawed war in Iraq that destabilized the region, most Americans have no stomach for elective wars of choice.

Personally, next to economic protectionism, I believe this is why Trump won in '16.

6.) Trade Policy-- Sure studies are all over the map on this one. However what is now crystal clear in light of the Post-Trump election hangover, is that the fundamental concept of rebuilding America, transcends the traditional ideological paradigms and conventional wisdom.

Is it "Conservative", "Liberal", "Socialist" to promote massive investments in American jobs and infrastructure?

7.) Guns- There are many who identify as "conservative" who own firearms for personal protection, hunting, target shooting, etc....

HRC launched a broadsided assault against Bernie hammering him on Guns at a critical debate during the Democratic Primaries...

Bernie stood his ground, and restated common sense items regarding closing gun loopholes and universal background checks (Which 90% of Gun Owners support).

A ton of Conservatives, including many friends, respected Bernie's honesty on the subject, and also as a moderating voice on the hyper-partisan bag where HRC was essentially claiming that anyone who died at the hands of a gun in America, should be able to sue the manufacturer of the Gun!

That is insane, and IMHO played a major reason in the dramatic decline of support between Obama '12/HRC '16. Voters just don't "forget" these statements come GE time.

[GGover]

Bernie Sanders has always had reasonable cross-over appeal. In VT he has won many socially conservative areas by trying to unite people for an economic agenda which works for low income people. There is a big chunk of socially moderate/conservative & economically liberal people & Bernie appealed to them by harping less on identity politics, political calculation, through a personal appeal & honesty & an inclusive agenda.

Abortion, Gay Marriage, Guns still tend to be divisive issues in many rural culturally conservative areas & Sanders had a very liberal abortion & gay marriage record but he chose to focus on a uniting economic message.

This is similar to what FDR did, uber lefty & super liberal (way to the left of Sanders) but he consistently won many conservative areas including the south by uniting people around an economic message !

I think you hit the nail on the head. As I remember, Sanders' record on guns and race were his weak spots. Clinton even tried to blame the gun problem in New York on the lax gun laws in Vermont. It was a pretty absurd argument, and I recall the debate moderators even calling her out on it, but she was still able to paint him as someone from a white rural state that was too weak on guns and race matters.

Record on race? The guy supported affirmative action, went to jail to protest against segregation. A Goldwater girl who coined the term Super-predators pushing harsher penalties & who campaign started the Obama maybe a Muslim Kenyan talking about race to Sanders?

Anyways it does help that Clinton wanted to pin Sanders as a pro-gun (despite a D- minus record), white rural male candidate with no ties or support of the Democratic establishment, no support from corporations and the business candidate with scant appeal or reach to the black community. She herself painted him as the anti-establishment, outsider candidate with no ties to any of the establishment factions or the Democratic party !

I think you're misinterpreting my post... Or maybe I'm misinterpreting yours.

I wasn't disagreeing with your post. I agreed with the premise that Sanders' campaign was primarily focused on economic issues instead of identity politics, which helped him appeal to conservatives. But I think by neglecting social issues, Hillary was able to paint him as someone who wasn't particularly strong on said issues whether it was true or not.

I do disagree on his race record, I really don't believe he was particularly strong. You bring up affirmative action, a policy that most Democrats have supported since LBJ, and some protests he participated in 50 years ago. As far as I'm concerned that doesn't make his record on race not particularly strong or bad, it's just weak. I don't see where Sanders has gone out his way to really fight for civil rights in the way that Al Smith, LBJ, or even Nixon did. If you ask me, I think his record on this topic is average at best.

I'm not comparing Sanders to Clinton, smearing Sanders, or promoting Clinton. I just think she tried to unfairly skew the image voters had of him. He didn't campaign on social issues enough, which created a void that HRC filled with lies.

[UWS]

Another reason of his appeal to conservatives might be his pro-gun stance.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bernie did not appeal to "conservatives", he appealed to purists. Please consult the Utah and Mississippi (or Tennessee) Dem primary results for reference.

Yes, the most popular politician in America clearly only appeals to purists.