Maryland

[MaC]

what makes this state so liberal?

It isn't.

bandit, you'd consider SanFancisco to be far-right conservative.

[dazzleman]

what makes this state so liberal?

It isn't.

bandit, you'd consider SanFancisco to be far-right conservative.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

bandit, you'd consider SanFancisco to be far-right conservative.

You're right. I would. Didn't San Francisco start fingerprinting welfare recipients? That itself is nutty.

[TeePee4Prez]

I'm just hoping Dems don't suffer in '06 due to black apathy if the Cardin/Mfume primary gets nasty and Cardin wins.

I can see a situation like this happening in Philadelphia come 2007.  Say Jon Saidel or John Dougherty beats up on Chaka Fattah or Janine Blackwell.  Blacks might stay home and I hate to say it Frank Rizzo Jr. could emerge as victor. The name Rizzo if some may recall is quite a popular name in the white parts of Philadelphia. 

This type of thing is a big part of the reason the Democrats have lost the last 3 mayoral elections in New York, and appear likely to lose their fourth straight one this year.

In my opinion, it serves them right.  Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I'm a Jon Saidel supporter and he is in my sig on the bottom left.  He looks kinda nerdy and has a hairpiece, but is a great man.  I know a lot of white Dems are supporting Johnny Doc because of the unions and the black Dems will be supporting either Fattah or Blackwell.  Michael Nutter could also be in the mix and might do well with conservative Dems both black AND white.  I would like to support an African American at some point but the field of candidates among them is not too impressive.  Nutter is quite a DINO.  The situation here is going to be very hairy. 

It's a shame that race and poltics comes into play so much, but it does.  I hate to say that Republicans are experts at picking African American candidates for various offices and can use it very well in our faces "see, see we pick minorities as well."  Other than Barack Obama or Harold Ford, there are slim pickings on the Dems side.  It seems the black face of our party is Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters and that could be a difficult thing to overcome for us.

[dazzleman]

I'm a Jon Saidel supporter and he is in my sig on the bottom left.  He looks kinda nerdy and has a hairpiece, but is a great man.  I know a lot of white Dems are supporting Johnny Doc because of the unions and the black Dems will be supporting either Fattah or Blackwell.  Michael Nutter could also be in the mix and might do well with conservative Dems both black AND white.  I would like to support an African American at some point but the field of candidates among them is not too impressive.  Nutter is quite a DINO.  The situation here is going to be very hairy. 

It's a shame that race and poltics comes into play so much, but it does.  I hate to say that Republicans are experts at picking African American candidates for various offices and can use it very well in our faces "see, see we pick minorities as well."  Other than Barack Obama or Harold Ford, there are slim pickings on the Dems side.  It seems the black face of our party is Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters and that could be a difficult thing to overcome for us.

The problem is that the Democrats have used the politics of resentment and racial grievance to hang on to large percentages of the black vote.  But now it's considered racist to run a primary campaign against a black candidate, and blacks won't support a white Democrat who beats a black Democrat in the primary.

This racial divide has really hurt the Democratic party in New York City.  Imagine a city as Democratic as New York and Democrats haven't elected a mayor since 1989.

You're right about the public face of the Democrats.  Many of the blacks in the Democratic party are a very sorry lot.  Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters are very good examples.  People like this could never win an election outside of heavily black inner city neighborhoods.  They're poison for anybody else, and their racial dividers.

It's interesting to watch this problem in New York, and now hear about it in Maryland and Philadelphia.  It seems that blacks are going to start demanding more from Democrats in return for 90% of their vote, and Democrats are not going to be able to give it to them without losing much of the white support that they have left.  That is what has happened in the New York mayoral races.

[Gustaf]

Dazzleman, to be fair, wouldn't you say that Republicans have relied on racial resentment too, especially during the period from 1964 till the late 80s/early 90s when they realigned the South? If you look at the Deep South the Republican share of the white vote there is almost as big as the Democratic share of the Black vote (70% or more).

[Virginian87]

Maryland has more Republican and moderate Democrat counties, but the liberal Democratic counties have all the population (Howard, Baltimore, Charles, Prince George's, and Montgomery).  Not surprisingly, these elections control the state.  Moderates could win in Frederick County (which is trending Democratic, due to growing development of Hagerstown, Frederick, Point of Rocks, and Brunswick), Anne Arundel (site of Fort Meade), St. Marys, Calvert, and Allegany (large blue-collar population in Cumberland) Counties.

[TeePee4Prez]

I'm a Jon Saidel supporter and he is in my sig on the bottom left.  He looks kinda nerdy and has a hairpiece, but is a great man.  I know a lot of white Dems are supporting Johnny Doc because of the unions and the black Dems will be supporting either Fattah or Blackwell.  Michael Nutter could also be in the mix and might do well with conservative Dems both black AND white.  I would like to support an African American at some point but the field of candidates among them is not too impressive.  Nutter is quite a DINO.  The situation here is going to be very hairy. 

It's a shame that race and poltics comes into play so much, but it does.  I hate to say that Republicans are experts at picking African American candidates for various offices and can use it very well in our faces "see, see we pick minorities as well."  Other than Barack Obama or Harold Ford, there are slim pickings on the Dems side.  It seems the black face of our party is Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters and that could be a difficult thing to overcome for us.

The problem is that the Democrats have used the politics of resentment and racial grievance to hang on to large percentages of the black vote.  But now it's considered racist to run a primary campaign against a black candidate, and blacks won't support a white Democrat who beats a black Democrat in the primary.

This racial divide has really hurt the Democratic party in New York City.  Imagine a city as Democratic as New York and Democrats haven't elected a mayor since 1989.

You're right about the public face of the Democrats.  Many of the blacks in the Democratic party are a very sorry lot.  Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters are very good examples.  People like this could never win an election outside of heavily black inner city neighborhoods.  They're poison for anybody else, and their racial dividers.

It's interesting to watch this problem in New York, and now hear about it in Maryland and Philadelphia.  It seems that blacks are going to start demanding more from Democrats in return for 90% of their vote, and Democrats are not going to be able to give it to them without losing much of the white support that they have left.  That is what has happened in the New York mayoral races.

This is why I was surprised Philadelphia voted 81% for Kerry especially after last year's racially divisive mayoral election which the white neighborhoods voted overwhelmingly for Republican Sam Katz albeit the end result was 60-40 Street.  I knew when I was pulling for Katz I was going to vote for Howard Dean or whoever then next year.  Yeah I was a Deaniac for Katz.  When you have a mayor that says "the brothas and sistas are running this city, if you don't like it register Republican", I though the Dems were in deep sh!t here with the white voters.  I guarantee if Bush were replaced with McCain, McCain would have creamed Kerry in NE and South Philly.  I can also rest assure you that Philadelphia's Dem nominee will be African American and the GOP one will be Frank Rizzo Jr. 

[Akno21]

I'm just hoping Dems don't suffer in '06 due to black apathy if the Cardin/Mfume primary gets nasty and Cardin wins.

Do you really think M'fume stands a chance of winning a statewide election?  That type of candidate is usually too much even for the latte liberals, who either stay home or vote Republican in that case.

I would regard Maryland as a true toss-up if Mfume ran. There are enough "(D) is enough" voters to give him a chance, and combined with the fact that the GOP doesn't have any great candidates, he wouldn't get killed statewide. He'd do very bad outside of the big 3 counties, losing ones like Howard that Dems need to do well in. I'm not sure about how good voting is in inner city Baltimore, but his best chance would be hoping that Baltimore turns into Chicago in a political sense. He'd need very high black turnout to win.

[Virginian87]

I'm just hoping Dems don't suffer in '06 due to black apathy if the Cardin/Mfume primary gets nasty and Cardin wins.

Do you really think M'fume stands a chance of winning a statewide election?  That type of candidate is usually too much even for the latte liberals, who either stay home or vote Republican in that case.

I would regard Maryland as a true toss-up if Mfume ran. There are enough "(D) is enough" voters to give him a chance, and combined with the fact that the GOP doesn't have any great candidates, he wouldn't get killed statewide. He'd do very bad outside of the big 3 counties, losing ones like Howard that Dems need to do well in. I'm not sure about how good voting is in inner city Baltimore, but his best chance would be hoping that Baltimore turns into Chicago in a political sense. He'd need very high black turnout to win.

Mfume will never even win the nomination simply because no white people will vote for him, and I don't even think that many blacks would vote for him based on his skin color.  He might win Baltimore and Prince Geoge's Counties in the primary.  That's it.  The next senator from Maryland will be, in my opinion, Ben Cardin.

[Keystone Phil]

This is why I was surprised Philadelphia voted 81% for Kerry especially after last year's racially divisive mayoral election which the white neighborhoods voted overwhelmingly for Republican Sam Katz albeit the end result was 60-40 Street.  I knew when I was pulling for Katz I was going to vote for Howard Dean or whoever then next year.  Yeah I was a Deaniac for Katz.  When you have a mayor that says "the brothas and sistas are running this city, if you don't like it register Republican", I though the Dems were in deep sh!t here with the white voters.  I guarantee if Bush were replaced with McCain, McCain would have creamed Kerry in NE and South Philly.  I can also rest assure you that Philadelphia's Dem nominee will be African American and the GOP one will be Frank Rizzo Jr. 

I think Kerry would still win the NE and South Philly against McCain but it would be close.

As for 2007, I wouldn't be too sure that the Dems will nominate a black candidate. Is it likely? Yes (Fattah seems to be the frontrunner right now. He's making his deals with Street. You know what that might mean...Congressman John Street. Ugh...) but it's not a lock. Doc will be the big name of the white candidates. I have a feeling Saidel's campaign won't get far and he might even decide against running. For the GOP, Rizzo is our best shot but, once again, don't be so sure he will be the nominee. Would he win the primary? Probably. However, Rizzo seems to be one to put up fights with the party. He, like Saidel, could end up deciding against a run.

[dazzleman]

This is why I was surprised Philadelphia voted 81% for Kerry especially after last year's racially divisive mayoral election which the white neighborhoods voted overwhelmingly for Republican Sam Katz albeit the end result was 60-40 Street.  I knew when I was pulling for Katz I was going to vote for Howard Dean or whoever then next year.  Yeah I was a Deaniac for Katz.  When you have a mayor that says "the brothas and sistas are running this city, if you don't like it register Republican", I though the Dems were in deep sh!t here with the white voters.  I guarantee if Bush were replaced with McCain, McCain would have creamed Kerry in NE and South Philly.  I can also rest assure you that Philadelphia's Dem nominee will be African American and the GOP one will be Frank Rizzo Jr. 

The racial polarization issue doesn't seem to affect presidential voting the way it affects local voting, unless probably a serious black candidate was defeated in the primary.  Some people argue that Michael Dukakis' defeat of Jesse Jackson in 1988 caused a lack of enthusiasm for Dukakis among blacks that depressed his turnout.  This didn't happen in 2004 with Fat Al Sharpton, but then he didn't turn out to be a serious candidate the way Jackson was, at least in the Democratic primaries.

[A18]

Maryland is yet another state living under unjust urban rule.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Maryland is yet another state living under unjust urban rule.

The United States is yet another country living under unjust exurban rule.

[dazzleman]

Maryland is yet another state living under unjust urban rule.

I would have to agree with you, Philip, though there's no solution.

[Virginian87]

Maryland is yet another state living under unjust urban rule.

I would have to agree with you, Philip, though there's no solution.

I guess you could add Illinois and Delaware to that list.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Maryland is yet another state living under unjust urban rule.

I would have to agree with you, Philip, though there's no solution.

I guess you could add Illinois and Delaware to that list.

How is urban rule any more unjust than any other type of rule? I'm originally from upstate NY, and would gladly take a downstate Democrat over an upstate Republican. Pataki is from upstate NY, and he has a terrible ratings in upstate NY (Hillary's upstate NY rating's margin is something like 35 points better). The fact is, he's always claimed the upstate NY economy is booming. Only Hillary had the balls to call bullsh**t on that. What Pataki says on the economy is such a joke. Once IBM laid off 5,000 engineers, and a Walmart hired 30 people in the same month. Pataki talked about how those 30 jobs proved that upstate NY was turning a corner, never mind that it's been shown that for every 2 new Walmart jobs, 3 others are lost.

[A18]

Because consolidated rule is contrary to the principles of self-government. Better a law be local than state, state than federal.

[dazzleman]

Only Hillary had the balls to call bullsh**t on that.

Well, you're right about one thing.  She sure has balls, literally.

Now we could discuss why the upstate economy is so depressed, but that would be pointless.

[Virginian87]

Only Hillary had the balls to call bullsh**t on that.

Well, you're right about one thing.  She sure has balls, literally.

Now we could discuss why the upstate economy is so depressed, but that would be pointless.

The problem with upstate New York's economy is the same as the problems with most of the Rust Belt cities.  Heavy industry has fallen from grace.  Have you visited upstate New York, recently?  Schenectady, Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo, are full of Old Economy industries that have been in decline due to competition from overseas and have had factories closed due to outsourcing (such as Carrier's air conditioning plant in Syracuse).  Though more and more high-tech industries have been appearing, such as Eastman Kodak and Xerox adding to their large operations in Rochester.  So it might get better eventually.  But for now most of the cities of upstate New York are very blue-collar.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Only Hillary had the balls to call bullsh**t on that.

Well, you're right about one thing.  She sure has balls, literally.

Now we could discuss why the upstate economy is so depressed, but that would be pointless.

The problem with upstate New York's economy is the same as the problems with most of the Rust Belt cities.  Heavy industry has fallen from grace.  Have you visited upstate New York, recently?  Schenectady, Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo, are full of Old Economy industries that have been in decline due to competition from overseas and have had factories closed due to outsourcing (such as Carrier's air conditioning plant in Syracuse).  Though more and more high-tech industries have been appearing, such as Eastman Kodak and Xerox adding to their large operations in Rochester.  So it might get better eventually.  But for now most of the cities of upstate New York are very blue-collar.

Yes, I've been there lately. It never really recovered from the Bush I recession of '91.

[dazzleman]

Only Hillary had the balls to call bullsh**t on that.

Well, you're right about one thing.  She sure has balls, literally.

Now we could discuss why the upstate economy is so depressed, but that would be pointless.

The problem with upstate New York's economy is the same as the problems with most of the Rust Belt cities.  Heavy industry has fallen from grace.  Have you visited upstate New York, recently?  Schenectady, Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo, are full of Old Economy industries that have been in decline due to competition from overseas and have had factories closed due to outsourcing (such as Carrier's air conditioning plant in Syracuse).  Though more and more high-tech industries have been appearing, such as Eastman Kodak and Xerox adding to their large operations in Rochester.  So it might get better eventually.  But for now most of the cities of upstate New York are very blue-collar.

Yes, I've been there lately. It never really recovered from the Bush I recession of '91.

Upstate's problems predate that recession.  It's a structural problem based on the fact that the New York city's dominance of the state imposes a high tax structure on the whole state, and makes it an uncompetitive place to do business.

[Virginian87]

Only Hillary had the balls to call bullsh**t on that.

Well, you're right about one thing.  She sure has balls, literally.

Now we could discuss why the upstate economy is so depressed, but that would be pointless.

The problem with upstate New York's economy is the same as the problems with most of the Rust Belt cities.  Heavy industry has fallen from grace.  Have you visited upstate New York, recently?  Schenectady, Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo, are full of Old Economy industries that have been in decline due to competition from overseas and have had factories closed due to outsourcing (such as Carrier's air conditioning plant in Syracuse).  Though more and more high-tech industries have been appearing, such as Eastman Kodak and Xerox adding to their large operations in Rochester.  So it might get better eventually.  But for now most of the cities of upstate New York are very blue-collar.

Yes, I've been there lately. It never really recovered from the Bush I recession of '91.

Upstate's problems predate that recession.  It's a structural problem based on the fact that the New York city's dominance of the state imposes a high tax structure on the whole state, and makes it an uncompetitive place to do business.

It's not just because of the recession of '91.  It stems from the overall decline in American manufacturing and heavy industry since the stagflation of the 1970s, looser regulations on trade, and increased foreign competition.  Kind of like what happened to the steel industry.