Did Appalachians vote their economic interests?
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  Did Appalachians vote their economic interests?
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Question: Did Appalachians vote their economic interests?
#1
Yes, and wisely so.
 
#2
Yes, but they are probably regretting it now.
 
#3
Yes, but other factors were involved.
 
#4
No.
 
#5
Other
 
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Total Voters: 89

Author Topic: Did Appalachians vote their economic interests?  (Read 5728 times)
Asenath Waite
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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2020, 12:36:50 PM »

Some did, some didn't. I think that West Virginia was trending Republican as it was for a mix of economic and cultural reasons but that Hillary saying she wanted to put the coal industry out of business gave Trump a wider margin then he otherwise would have had.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2020, 01:01:51 PM »

I think they voted for the candidate who they believed respected them, their family and their communities MUCH more.  Whether or not you agree with that is another thing, but I think many of these people didn't have to infer all that much to come to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats in other areas of the country thought VERY little of them (I mean, just look at a lot of the posts here), and they felt the only dignified thing to do was not vote for them ... kind of like a New York Republican who might have liked Ted Cruz's views refusing to vote for him after the "New York values" thing.

This is to say nothing *better* about the GOP platform for Appalachia, but it IS my opinion that Trump signaled a bit more dignity their way than Clinton or any past Republican or Democrat of the past twenty years.  So, they didn't "vote their economic interests," but I think a lot of them would readily admit that.

Because Donald Trump is nothing else if not all about dignity.

it would be much more accurate to say that trumps campaign wasn't so much about extending dignity or respect towards such voters, but rather demonizing their perceived enemies and "the other".
There was obviously a strong element of this, but one needs to remember why Trump rallies are such a potent weapon: if your town has been in economic decline for decades, and losing population as the young people move away to find jobs, it means something when Donald Trump, whose name is synonymous with wealth, gold, and success, is coming to your town to hold a rally. There's a reason why people take his "forgotten man" schtick seriously and think he's a man of the people, even though when you look at actual policy, Trump clearly doesn't give a rat's ass about improving their lives and has governed indistinguishably from a generic R president, aside from rhetoric and some stuff on immigration.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2020, 02:40:49 PM »

I think they voted for the candidate who they believed respected them, their family and their communities MUCH more.  Whether or not you agree with that is another thing, but I think many of these people didn't have to infer all that much to come to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats in other areas of the country thought VERY little of them (I mean, just look at a lot of the posts here), and they felt the only dignified thing to do was not vote for them ... kind of like a New York Republican who might have liked Ted Cruz's views refusing to vote for him after the "New York values" thing.

This is to say nothing *better* about the GOP platform for Appalachia, but it IS my opinion that Trump signaled a bit more dignity their way than Clinton or any past Republican or Democrat of the past twenty years.  So, they didn't "vote their economic interests," but I think a lot of them would readily admit that.

Because Donald Trump is nothing else if not all about dignity.

it would be much more accurate to say that trumps campaign wasn't so much about extending dignity or respect towards such voters, but rather demonizing their perceived enemies and "the other".

I was trying to analyze what I thought to be these peoples' rationale for their vote - not internet posters' opinion of why they voted that way.  I DO believe most Trump voters in this region saw things in a similar way to what I typed, and I don't think most thought of themselves as going to the polls to stop "the other," even if YOU think they did.

If you want to call them stupid for thinking like that, that's your right.  You'd certainly find friends ready to jump in here.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2020, 08:51:44 PM »

Trump Digs Coal
He helped them dig the hole
And now they'll die in the hole
Cause Trump Digs Coal
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Hope For A New Era
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« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2020, 05:49:09 PM »

They voted for their short-term economic interests (coal) instead of their long-term economic interests (the future post-coal world).

Of course, that's far from the entire reason they voted so strongly Republican, but it's part of it.
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2020, 08:26:16 PM »

I think to a degree there may be a vote in the Appalachians that votes its perceived economic interests, that the nebulous promise that coal mining will come roaring back if only we abolish the EPA or roll back environmental regulations. Of course, that's a completely false premise; even if every Republican promise or ambition on undoing environmental regulation came to fruition, coal mining would continue its decline because it simply isn't economically viable any more.

There may be slightly more economic argument as it relates to fracking, but, even then, the long-term economic benefits of fracking seem pretty minimal: the main benefits to existing stakeholders accrue to just a few large landowners who often don't live locally (or leave once they make fracking money); it's not at all labor-intensive so doesn't create many jobs; it's highly cyclical and subject to major busts every few years lately, sustained only by cheap debt; and long-term it has a tough future as the price of renewables and battery storage look to inevitably decline and compete more and more with fracking gas, even without government weight on the side of renewables.

Even if fracking were a net positive for Appalachian communities, it's not at all clear that the trade-off is worth other policies the Republicans implement that are clearly and unquestionably contrary to the economic interests of Appalachia, such as cuts in public healthcare or welfare.

And you can't just ignore the social issue aspects, which drive a lot more passion, whether it's abortion, immigration, LGBT rights or other topics.
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Chester County Anti-populist
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« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2020, 08:51:03 PM »

I agree with the original poster here
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anthonyjg
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« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2020, 10:06:41 PM »

I mean, of course I think that they did, and I'm sure a number of Appalachians recognize this (Bevin's loss was in no small part due to his union busting). But as others have noted, Appalachians backed the candidate they thought respected them and their way of life. It is such an insular culture and the Democratic party doesn't seem sure how to speak to localism at the moment.
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SInNYC
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« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2020, 01:09:04 PM »

Yes they did, but not in the way normally assumed. In their eyes, Ds offer nothing other than 'we will offer you training to become coders' while Rs offer nothing other than 'we will eliminate regulations and reduce taxes on your employers'. Given this choice, social issues become more important even though the Appalachians aren't really super religious (especially adjusted for age), certainly less religious than the south.
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Sol
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« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2020, 02:23:06 PM »

Is there a universal Appalachian economy? Some of you people talk as if the entire Appalachian range were Mingo County. The factors that make the Shenandoah Valley Republican are incredibly different from coal country.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2020, 02:43:20 PM »

I think they voted for the candidate who they believed respected them, their family and their communities MUCH more.  Whether or not you agree with that is another thing, but I think many of these people didn't have to infer all that much to come to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats in other areas of the country thought VERY little of them (I mean, just look at a lot of the posts here), and they felt the only dignified thing to do was not vote for them ... kind of like a New York Republican who might have liked Ted Cruz's views refusing to vote for him after the "New York values" thing.

This is to say nothing *better* about the GOP platform for Appalachia, but it IS my opinion that Trump signaled a bit more dignity their way than Clinton or any past Republican or Democrat of the past twenty years.  So, they didn't "vote their economic interests," but I think a lot of them would readily admit that.

Because Donald Trump is nothing else if not all about dignity.

it would be much more accurate to say that trumps campaign wasn't so much about extending dignity or respect towards such voters, but rather demonizing their perceived enemies and "the other".

I was trying to analyze what I thought to be these peoples' rationale for their vote - not internet posters' opinion of why they voted that way.  I DO believe most Trump voters in this region saw things in a similar way to what I typed, and I don't think most thought of themselves as going to the polls to stop "the other," even if YOU think they did.

Except they absolutely did. And that's not just my opinion, or his opinion, or anyone else's. It is a fact. Study after study has shown strong links between racial resentment, right-wing authoritarianism, and voting for Trump. The TL;DR of it is "More prejudiced views make you more likely to vote for Trump." Shocking, I know. And it applies to Appalachia at least as well as anywhere else.

The main reason these places voted Democratic in the past, longer than the Deep South, are that Democrats were not yet seen as anti-coal and the unions were more powerful. These economic concerns were more important than social issues, which also weren't as significant a part of party platforms then, to many Appalachian voters. That's how you get Walter Mondale winning a number of Appalachian counties even as he was blown out nationwide.

However, once the Democrats turned on coal and the unions were diminished, that went away. Now all that's left to them are social issues, and the Democrats have gone farther left socially while the culture wars have blown up. Meanwhile, the Republicans have been fear-mongering to them by not only playing on their fears of "the other" (just why do you think Trump's xenophobic rhetoric was so effective exactly?) but also making them think both Democrats and immigrants are going to "take their jobs." Hillary didn't help with her talk of "putting a lot of coal miners out of business." But if they actually listened to her in context, she wanted job retraining programs for them that would phase out coal -- a dangerous, dirty job that has wrecked many of their lungs and killed many of them for generations while they've been screwed over and stuck economically -- and implement safer, higher-paying clean energy jobs. While also protecting their healthcare and economic aid.

I'm going to have to say that their failure to listen to that nuance because they'd rather listen to a con artist who s--ts on a golden toilet tell them fairy tales about how coal is going to last forever and he's going to build a wall keeping the scary brown people out makes them... ignorant, at best. Howard Stern has it right:

https://www.newsweek.com/howard-stern-tells-trump-supporters-he-hates-you-so-do-i-1503621

It's not all their fault. The education system in these areas is abysmal. They've basically been brainwashed by right-wing media. And the Democrats haven't exactly been great at messaging in these areas in recent years. But still, there is an element of bigotry there that is impossible to ignore. I've lived in this state long enough to know that. Some of the things you hear when there are no minorities around and they assume you're "one of them" can be quite shocking.

Obviously this does not apply to all people in Appalachia. Many are truly great people. And others are not bigoted but simply misguided. But it would be naive to pretend there aren't a number of genuine bigots there, who DO want to stick it to "the other" (remember the Trump supporter who said "He's not hurting the right people?"), and that doesn't play a significant role in Trump's appeal to them. There is a reason only socially conservative Democrats have a chance to compete in these areas. It's not really the economy, stupid, anymore. Coal is obviously a major factor, but these days I'd say social issues are perhaps even bigger factors and certainly contributed to how Trump was able to run up the score so much. Race is also a major reason why many of these counties didn't sharply turn on Democrats until they nominated a black man.
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Lechasseur
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« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2020, 02:49:28 PM »

Yes they did, but not in the way normally assumed. In their eyes, Ds offer nothing other than 'we will offer you training to become coders' while Rs offer nothing other than 'we will eliminate regulations and reduce taxes on your employers'. Given this choice, social issues become more important even though the Appalachians aren't really super religious (especially adjusted for age), certainly less religious than the south.


I think this is basically right.
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Asenath Waite
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« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2020, 02:54:44 PM »

I think they voted for the candidate who they believed respected them, their family and their communities MUCH more.  Whether or not you agree with that is another thing, but I think many of these people didn't have to infer all that much to come to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats in other areas of the country thought VERY little of them (I mean, just look at a lot of the posts here), and they felt the only dignified thing to do was not vote for them ... kind of like a New York Republican who might have liked Ted Cruz's views refusing to vote for him after the "New York values" thing.

This is to say nothing *better* about the GOP platform for Appalachia, but it IS my opinion that Trump signaled a bit more dignity their way than Clinton or any past Republican or Democrat of the past twenty years.  So, they didn't "vote their economic interests," but I think a lot of them would readily admit that.

Because Donald Trump is nothing else if not all about dignity.

it would be much more accurate to say that trumps campaign wasn't so much about extending dignity or respect towards such voters, but rather demonizing their perceived enemies and "the other".

I was trying to analyze what I thought to be these peoples' rationale for their vote - not internet posters' opinion of why they voted that way.  I DO believe most Trump voters in this region saw things in a similar way to what I typed, and I don't think most thought of themselves as going to the polls to stop "the other," even if YOU think they did.

Except they absolutely did. And that's not just my opinion, or his opinion, or anyone else's. It is a fact. Study after study has shown strong links between racial resentment, right-wing authoritarianism, and voting for Trump. The TL;DR of it is "More prejudiced views make you more likely to vote for Trump." Shocking, I know. And it applies to Appalachia at least as well as anywhere else.

The main reason these places voted Democratic in the past, longer than the Deep South, are that Democrats were not yet seen as anti-coal and the unions were more powerful. These economic concerns were more important than social issues, which also weren't as significant a part of party platforms then, to many Appalachian voters. That's how you get Walter Mondale winning a number of Appalachian counties even as he was blown out nationwide.

However, once the Democrats turned on coal and the unions were diminished, that went away. Now all that's left to them are social issues, and the Democrats have gone farther left socially while the culture wars have blown up. Meanwhile, the Republicans have been fear-mongering to them by not only playing on their fears of "the other" (just why do you think Trump's xenophobic rhetoric was so effective exactly?) but also making them think both Democrats and immigrants are going to "take their jobs." Hillary didn't help with her talk of "putting a lot of coal miners out of business." But if they actually listened to her in context, she wanted job retraining programs for them that would phase out coal -- a dangerous, dirty job that has wrecked many of their lungs and killed many of them for generations while they've been screwed over and stuck economically -- and implement safer, higher-paying clean energy jobs. While also protecting their healthcare and economic aid.

I'm going to have to say that their failure to listen to that nuance because they'd rather listen to a con artist who s--ts on a golden toilet tell them fairy tales about how coal is going to last forever and he's going to build a wall keeping the scary brown people out makes them... ignorant, at best. Howard Stern has it right:

https://www.newsweek.com/howard-stern-tells-trump-supporters-he-hates-you-so-do-i-1503621

It's not all their fault. The education system in these areas is abysmal. They've basically been brainwashed by right-wing media. And the Democrats haven't exactly been great at messaging in these areas in recent years. But still, there is an element of bigotry there that is impossible to ignore. I've lived in this state long enough to know that. Some of the things you hear when there are no minorities around and they assume you're "one of them" can be quite shocking.

Obviously this does not apply to all people in Appalachia. Many are truly great people. And others are not bigoted but simply misguided. But it would be naive to pretend there aren't a number of genuine bigots there, who DO want to stick it to "the other" (remember the Trump supporter who said "He's not hurting the right people?"), and that doesn't play a significant role in Trump's appeal to them. There is a reason only socially conservative Democrats have a chance to compete in these areas. It's not really the economy, stupid, anymore. Coal is obviously a major factor, but these days I'd say social issues are perhaps even bigger factors and certainly contributed to how Trump was able to run up the score so much. Race is also a major reason why many of these counties didn't sharply turn on Democrats until they nominated a black man.

Even if everything you say is true one thing I despise about the modern face of liberalism is celebrating a multi-millionaire talking about how much he hates poor people, especially one who has a history of racism himself.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2020, 09:30:49 AM »

Is there a universal Appalachian economy? Some of you people talk as if the entire Appalachian range were Mingo County. The factors that make the Shenandoah Valley Republican are incredibly different from coal country.

Well, the Shenandoah actually was never part of the Appalachian Regional Commission (which was a political construct anyway)

https://www.arc.gov/research/MapsofAppalachia.asp?MAP_ID=149

I think when Atlas says "Appalachia" they are defaulting to the coal mining, or increasingly, the former coal mining areas.  Besides coal mining, there are remnants of the lumber industry here and it's been a magnet for the prison industry (which has been hurt by the sentencing reform movement).

As for what their alternative development might involve, well the potential workforce here has poor education levels, poor health, they're older than average.  The infrastructure is substandard in part because it's hard to maintain given the terrain and declining population and tax base, like Detroit, it once had a much larger population, so there is abandoned everything here--industrial, residential, commercial, coal waste, scarred landscape.  It all works against redevelopment, even for recreational opportunities as they're looking for more pristine locales.

So, after three more bad years for coal and a currently disastrous one, what is their economic interest?  Four years with fewer people and the people left getting even older.  There's been a wave of hospital closures in the region.  The prison gravy train seems to have ended.  So, what is there to vote for now?
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Wazza [INACTIVE]
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« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2020, 09:21:05 AM »

I think they voted for the candidate who they believed respected them, their family and their communities MUCH more.  Whether or not you agree with that is another thing, but I think many of these people didn't have to infer all that much to come to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats in other areas of the country thought VERY little of them (I mean, just look at a lot of the posts here), and they felt the only dignified thing to do was not vote for them ... kind of like a New York Republican who might have liked Ted Cruz's views refusing to vote for him after the "New York values" thing.

This is to say nothing *better* about the GOP platform for Appalachia, but it IS my opinion that Trump signaled a bit more dignity their way than Clinton or any past Republican or Democrat of the past twenty years.  So, they didn't "vote their economic interests," but I think a lot of them would readily admit that.

Because Donald Trump is nothing else if not all about dignity.

it would be much more accurate to say that trumps campaign wasn't so much about extending dignity or respect towards such voters, but rather demonizing their perceived enemies and "the other".

I was trying to analyze what I thought to be these peoples' rationale for their vote - not internet posters' opinion of why they voted that way.  I DO believe most Trump voters in this region saw things in a similar way to what I typed, and I don't think most thought of themselves as going to the polls to stop "the other," even if YOU think they did.

Except they absolutely did. And that's not just my opinion, or his opinion, or anyone else's. It is a fact. Study after study has shown strong links between racial resentment, right-wing authoritarianism, and voting for Trump. The TL;DR of it is "More prejudiced views make you more likely to vote for Trump." Shocking, I know. And it applies to Appalachia at least as well as anywhere else.

The main reason these places voted Democratic in the past, longer than the Deep South, are that Democrats were not yet seen as anti-coal and the unions were more powerful. These economic concerns were more important than social issues, which also weren't as significant a part of party platforms then, to many Appalachian voters. That's how you get Walter Mondale winning a number of Appalachian counties even as he was blown out nationwide.

However, once the Democrats turned on coal and the unions were diminished, that went away. Now all that's left to them are social issues, and the Democrats have gone farther left socially while the culture wars have blown up. Meanwhile, the Republicans have been fear-mongering to them by not only playing on their fears of "the other" (just why do you think Trump's xenophobic rhetoric was so effective exactly?) but also making them think both Democrats and immigrants are going to "take their jobs." Hillary didn't help with her talk of "putting a lot of coal miners out of business." But if they actually listened to her in context, she wanted job retraining programs for them that would phase out coal -- a dangerous, dirty job that has wrecked many of their lungs and killed many of them for generations while they've been screwed over and stuck economically -- and implement safer, higher-paying clean energy jobs. While also protecting their healthcare and economic aid.

I'm going to have to say that their failure to listen to that nuance because they'd rather listen to a con artist who s--ts on a golden toilet tell them fairy tales about how coal is going to last forever and he's going to build a wall keeping the scary brown people out makes them... ignorant, at best. Howard Stern has it right:

https://www.newsweek.com/howard-stern-tells-trump-supporters-he-hates-you-so-do-i-1503621

It's not all their fault. The education system in these areas is abysmal. They've basically been brainwashed by right-wing media. And the Democrats haven't exactly been great at messaging in these areas in recent years. But still, there is an element of bigotry there that is impossible to ignore. I've lived in this state long enough to know that. Some of the things you hear when there are no minorities around and they assume you're "one of them" can be quite shocking.

Obviously this does not apply to all people in Appalachia. Many are truly great people. And others are not bigoted but simply misguided. But it would be naive to pretend there aren't a number of genuine bigots there, who DO want to stick it to "the other" (remember the Trump supporter who said "He's not hurting the right people?"), and that doesn't play a significant role in Trump's appeal to them. There is a reason only socially conservative Democrats have a chance to compete in these areas. It's not really the economy, stupid, anymore. Coal is obviously a major factor, but these days I'd say social issues are perhaps even bigger factors and certainly contributed to how Trump was able to run up the score so much. Race is also a major reason why many of these counties didn't sharply turn on Democrats until they nominated a black man.

You know, I see you come in here and claim again and again that “study after study finds appalachians vote Trump because they hate minorities.” (which you interestingly lever cite) but that’s not what the data Harvard’s project implicit shows us:


This is negative bias against Black people amongst white Americans by US state. As you can see, WV and KY don’t score particularly high. They show as much prejudice against blacks as people in NY and MD and less than whites in PA, CT, DE and NJ. In fact the data shows little correlation with education, income or voting patterns, rather it seems to correlate most with the ratio of blacks and whites within a state. WaPo did and article on it here: https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/12/19/the-troubling-reason-why-whites-in-some-states-may-show-more-hidden-racial-bias/%3foutputType=amp

As to why bias correlated with the white-black ratio in a state is a whole other topic, but what the data does show is that the narrative pushed by many American Liberals that Appalachia is “A region filled with crypto-klansmen who spend their time seething about minorities because they’re stupid and uneducated and all the info they have on blacks is dictated to them by Grand Wizard Rush Limbaugh” is clearly inaccurate.
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Wazza [INACTIVE]
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« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2020, 09:27:46 AM »

It’s also worth mentioning that for parts of Appalachia, voting overwhelmingly Republican has been the norm since the Civil War. Owsley County which appeared in many Democratic memes as a prime example of “stupid poor hicks voting against their own interests” has voted GOP since the civil war and has only given 2 Democrats (LBJ and Bubba Bill) more than 30% of the vote.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2020, 10:47:43 AM »

It’s also worth mentioning that for parts of Appalachia, voting overwhelmingly Republican has been the norm since the Civil War. Owsley County which appeared in many Democratic memes as a prime example of “stupid poor hicks voting against their own interests” has voted GOP since the civil war and has only given 2 Democrats (LBJ and Bubba Bill) more than 30% of the vote.

Really, until coal mining commenced on a large scale, Appalachia from TN/NC northward was virtually all Republican.
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« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2020, 12:23:02 PM »

There are a lot of bigoted posts directed towards the Appalachians by people I suspect never even laid a food in the Appalachia.  
To answer the question "did Appalachian vote their economic interests"?
First let's check voter turnout:
West Virginia:
2000: 46.6%
2004: 55.5%
2008: 51.2%
2012: 46.3%
2016: 50.2%
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data

I thought about adding Kentucky, however, the Appalachian parts of Kentucky make up around 18% of Kentucky's population. With been said, voter turnout on average was lower in eastern Kentucky when compared to other parts of the state. The same goes for the Appalachian counties of Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, and Ohio. Turnout in Appalachian parts of the state is almost always lower.  

But let take West Virginia as the prime example. For the past 20 years turnout been around (46% to 51%), with 2004 as an exception to the rule. The higher turnout in 2004 might be due to both Bush and Kerry campaigning in West Virginia, although it wasn't highly contested.
So let's get to the point, almost half of Appalachians don't vote, and the other half that does bother to vote are more likely to vote GOP.

Like many people already mentioned here, Appalachians aren't as religious as people portray them. And from the people I've come across they tend to be distrustful of all politicians.

The Appalachia is really poor, the levels of poverty are shocking. I drove more than 10 times from Massachusetts to Tennesse back and forth to visit a good friend of mine, and each time I drive-through the Appalachia I'm amazed by the sheer level of poverty. Whenever I'm visiting my friend I drive through a new route to experience and enjoy the views and it's just more poverty.    

Back when I used to serve in the Navy, I've come across many sailors, soldiers, marines, etc who come from the Appalachia region. Most of them didn't join the military because patriotism but rather because they wanted to go to college, their parents couldn't afford to pay for their school, so they joined the military because if you serve you're entitled to free college after your service, many did serve because of patriotism and to serve their country but many more because of paid college fees afterward. Of course, it's not only Appalachian do that, many guys do that from all over the country. In the ship that I served at, there were a lot Appalachians, I don't know if people from Appalachia are more likely to serve than other parts of the US, but it certainly felt like it when I used to serve.

Inside a Life-Saving Rural Clinic in Appalachia
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vdx5j8/watching-lives-get-saved-and-teeth-get-pulled-at-a-remote-medical-clinic-in-appalachia-ang

Left out of health debate, Appalachian poor seek free care
https://apnews.com/865c6779fa90457bbb6cb62dc4d54e73



Americans lining up for hours to get free medical, dental help, and free prescriptions. Great acts of kindness, but these events shouldn't be necessary.

The nation trusts the Democrats more than the GOP on poverty, education, and healthcare. which logically means those communities should be Democratic voters, Yet they aren't.
Democrats shouldn't be whining why those people are voting Republicans, because most of them don't even vote. They should be deeply embarrassed for not making some real effort to reach out to those people. LBJ went to visit the Appalachia, while the great society didn't really succeed, he at least tried to help them.
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Green Line
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2020, 01:21:40 AM »

There are a lot of bigoted posts directed towards the Appalachians by people I suspect never even laid a food in the Appalachia.  
To answer the question "did Appalachian vote their economic interests"?
First let's check voter turnout:


Effort posts like these are what originally drew me, and many others, to Atlas.  Nice!
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Badger
badger
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« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2020, 12:50:16 PM »

I think they voted for the candidate who they believed respected them, their family and their communities MUCH more.  Whether or not you agree with that is another thing, but I think many of these people didn't have to infer all that much to come to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats in other areas of the country thought VERY little of them (I mean, just look at a lot of the posts here), and they felt the only dignified thing to do was not vote for them ... kind of like a New York Republican who might have liked Ted Cruz's views refusing to vote for him after the "New York values" thing.

This is to say nothing *better* about the GOP platform for Appalachia, but it IS my opinion that Trump signaled a bit more dignity their way than Clinton or any past Republican or Democrat of the past twenty years.  So, they didn't "vote their economic interests," but I think a lot of them would readily admit that.

Because Donald Trump is nothing else if not all about dignity.

it would be much more accurate to say that trumps campaign wasn't so much about extending dignity or respect towards such voters, but rather demonizing their perceived enemies and "the other".
There was obviously a strong element of this, but one needs to remember why Trump rallies are such a potent weapon: if your town has been in economic decline for decades, and losing population as the young people move away to find jobs, it means something when Donald Trump, whose name is synonymous with wealth, gold, and success, is coming to your town to hold a rally. There's a reason why people take his "forgotten man" schtick seriously and think he's a man of the people, even though when you look at actual policy, Trump clearly doesn't give a rat's ass about improving their lives and has governed indistinguishably from a generic R president, aside from rhetoric and some stuff on immigration.

110% absolutely agree.

I will also say, as I've noted in other threads, that to the degree that the Appalachian economy relies not only on cold, but natural gas fracking as well, Trump is very much in their economic interest. Yes, the percentage of Appalachians actually employed as coal miners is quite small to the overall population nowadays, but once you take into account all the support Industries hutches machine manufacturing and repair, Transportation, Etc, plus the significant support all those combined Industries and jobs have on everyday businesses in those communities, everything from diners to car dealerships Etc, it overall is a significant chunk of the Region's economy which Clinton explicitly promised to sink.

Even to the degree that there are Appalachians whose jobs have little or no connection to the fossil fuels industry even indirectly, there are still economic interests who would support Trump. If we consider all Appalachians is stereotypical toothless Hillbillies living in shacks and single wide trailers, that's missing the fact that mini Appalachians even outside the energy images Stree have decent middle-class and upper-middle-class jobs who probably vote Republican on that basis anyway. If you combine that with those individuals who incomes are at least indirectly related to the fossil fuel industry, you're now possibly not far from half of Appalachians who didn't necessarily vote against their economic interest.

On the third hand, is unquestionable when it comes to issues like lacking health insurance and poverty over all that a bunch of Appalachians voted decidedly against their economic interest. What was that necessarily because of Trumps particular brand of demagoguery? Owsley County Kentucky an example where probably didn't make any difference. The county has been hardcore Republican since the Civil War, and yet it has I believe the second highest poverty rate in the entire country. Maybe Democratic voters are concentrated among the portion of the County under the federal poverty line oh, no one can't ignore that it's one hard to Trump even from its usual solid Republican base. Even Beyond those who are officially in poverty, there have to be scads of County residents lacking health insurance who nevertheless voted for Trump.

This also begs the question whether or not poor Appalachians voted against their economic interest substantially more than poor and working-class whites elsewhere in the country all right I got to get to work I have no goofing let's
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