Macedonia considering renaming itself to end Greek opposition to it joining NATO (user search)
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  Macedonia considering renaming itself to end Greek opposition to it joining NATO (search mode)
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Author Topic: Macedonia considering renaming itself to end Greek opposition to it joining NATO  (Read 1290 times)
Lord Halifax
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Posts: 2,312
Papua New Guinea


« on: June 13, 2017, 03:20:37 PM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarian.

And Moldovans are not Romanian.

That isn't a relevant comparison. Ukrainians aren't Russians or Norwegians aren't Swedes would be more like it.
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Lord Halifax
Sr. Member
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Posts: 2,312
Papua New Guinea


« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2017, 08:09:51 AM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarian.

And Moldovans are not Romanian.

That isn't a relevant comparison. Ukrainians aren't Russians or Norwegians aren't Swedes would be more like it.

What, if anything it's the opposite with Russia trying to assimilate Ukraine, while in the cases of Macedonia and Moldova regional dialectics were exaggerated to the point that people thought they were a seperate ethnic group.


There is no strict border between a language and a dialect, and there are several different definitions of "language" and "dialect", and a lot depends on politics and self-identification of language/dialect speakers. Ukrainian was recognized as a dialect 100 years ago in Britannica and other encyclopedias of that time. Sicilian, Sardinian and other languages of Italy were also regarded as dialects then, but now are officially recognized as languages. And what we usually call dialects of Arabic or Chinese are even more different from each other than Venetian from Sicilian.

But at least Ethnologue and other similar sites dedicated to catalogizing language recognize Macedonian as a language but don't recognize Moldovan. Curiously, though, their position coincides with official positions of Macedonian and Moldovan governments. And very likely their position on, say, Moroccan Arabic or Egyptian Arabic would be also very different if the respective nations promoted their varieties of Arabic as separate languages.

The point is that Moldovan is just Romanian written in the cyrillic alphabet. The two countries share the same literary standard (and its called Romanian in Moldovan schools..). That is not comparable to Norwegian/Swedish or Bulgarian/Macedonian where you have two closely related and mutually intelligible languages with a shared dialect continuum, but both significant differences in the standard version (counting Standard East Norwegian as the de facto standard version of Norwegian) and two clearly different literary traditions. The proper parallel to Romanian/Moldovan would be Dutch/Flemish which have the same literary standard (and far less difference in vocabulary than Bulgarian/Macedonian & Norwegian/Swedish). As the literary standard influences the spoken language this is a very important difference.
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Lord Halifax
Sr. Member
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Posts: 2,312
Papua New Guinea


« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2017, 01:02:04 PM »

I'm glad that this is going along, but the opposition Greece has been involved in for the last 25 years is remarkably stupid. It's somewhat odd this was even needed in the first place--it's not like Macedonia ever had the ability to invade Greece of reclaim Aegean Macedonia.

Its the Balkan mentality. They can fight over these things forever.
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