Macedonia considering renaming itself to end Greek opposition to it joining NATO
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  Macedonia considering renaming itself to end Greek opposition to it joining NATO
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Author Topic: Macedonia considering renaming itself to end Greek opposition to it joining NATO  (Read 1243 times)
Santander
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« on: June 13, 2017, 06:23:22 AM »

https://www.ft.com/content/14cf0f74-4d17-11e7-919a-1e14ce4af89b
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Terry the Fat Shark
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2017, 07:28:04 AM »

paywall, renaming to what?
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Santander
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 07:45:54 AM »

http://www.politico.eu/article/macedonia-nato-nikola-dimitrov-renews-push-for-to-join-nato-under-provisional-name/

Here's another source. They haven't firmly decided on a name yet, they're currently exploring the possibilities. Upper Republic of Macedonia is a possibility.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2017, 08:46:50 AM »

Former Republic of Former Independent Republic of Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FROFIROFYROM)

Problem solved Smiley
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BudgieForce
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2017, 08:53:53 AM »


Greece has suggested Northern Macedonia. Really, any name that differentiate itself from Greek Macedonia would be fine with Greece.
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Santander
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2017, 08:55:31 AM »

If the Greeks spent as much time on getting their own house in order as they did lashing out at countries most of the world could not even find on a map, they wouldn't have become the first country to be downgraded to a developing country.
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Cashew
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 10:32:05 AM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.
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Fubart Solman
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2017, 11:22:38 AM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Dana Rorhabacher, is that you?
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 12:29:18 PM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarian.
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Cashew
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 01:12:31 PM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarian.

And Moldovans are not Romanian.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 02:23:36 PM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.
Ow the edge
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2017, 03:20:37 PM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarian.

And Moldovans are not Romanian.

That isn't a relevant comparison. Ukrainians aren't Russians or Norwegians aren't Swedes would be more like it.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2017, 03:33:21 PM »

I suggest "Severna nacija," and they could be called Severnans.
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Cashew
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2017, 03:56:26 PM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarian.

And Moldovans are not Romanian.

That isn't a relevant comparison. Ukrainians aren't Russians or Norwegians aren't Swedes would be more like it.

What, if anything it's the opposite with Russia trying to assimilate Ukraine, while in the cases of Macedonia and Moldova regional dialectics were exaggerated to the point that people thought they were a seperate ethnic group.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2017, 04:02:31 PM »

Former Republic of Former Independent Republic of Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FROFIROFYROM)

Problem solved Smiley

The Country Formerly Known as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, written as the unpronounceable symbol ☀.
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Zuza
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2017, 07:38:39 PM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarian.

And Moldovans are not Romanian.

That isn't a relevant comparison. Ukrainians aren't Russians or Norwegians aren't Swedes would be more like it.

What, if anything it's the opposite with Russia trying to assimilate Ukraine, while in the cases of Macedonia and Moldova regional dialectics were exaggerated to the point that people thought they were a seperate ethnic group.


There is no strict border between a language and a dialect, and there are several different definitions of "language" and "dialect", and a lot depends on politics and self-identification of language/dialect speakers. Ukrainian was recognized as a dialect 100 years ago in Britannica and other encyclopedias of that time. Sicilian, Sardinian and other languages of Italy were also regarded as dialects then, but now are officially recognized as languages. And what we usually call dialects of Arabic or Chinese are even more different from each other than Venetian from Sicilian.

But at least Ethnologue and other similar sites dedicated to catalogizing language recognize Macedonian as a language but don't recognize Moldovan. Curiously, though, their position coincides with official positions of Macedonian and Moldovan governments. And very likely their position on, say, Moroccan Arabic or Egyptian Arabic would be also very different if the respective nations promoted their varieties of Arabic as separate languages.
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Cory
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2017, 08:20:58 PM »

If the Greeks spent as much time on getting their own house in order as they did lashing out at countries most of the world could not even find on a map, they wouldn't have become the first country to be downgraded to a developing country.

Zing!
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2017, 08:09:51 AM »

No FRYOM should be partitioned between Bulgaria and Albania.

Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarian.

And Moldovans are not Romanian.

That isn't a relevant comparison. Ukrainians aren't Russians or Norwegians aren't Swedes would be more like it.

What, if anything it's the opposite with Russia trying to assimilate Ukraine, while in the cases of Macedonia and Moldova regional dialectics were exaggerated to the point that people thought they were a seperate ethnic group.


There is no strict border between a language and a dialect, and there are several different definitions of "language" and "dialect", and a lot depends on politics and self-identification of language/dialect speakers. Ukrainian was recognized as a dialect 100 years ago in Britannica and other encyclopedias of that time. Sicilian, Sardinian and other languages of Italy were also regarded as dialects then, but now are officially recognized as languages. And what we usually call dialects of Arabic or Chinese are even more different from each other than Venetian from Sicilian.

But at least Ethnologue and other similar sites dedicated to catalogizing language recognize Macedonian as a language but don't recognize Moldovan. Curiously, though, their position coincides with official positions of Macedonian and Moldovan governments. And very likely their position on, say, Moroccan Arabic or Egyptian Arabic would be also very different if the respective nations promoted their varieties of Arabic as separate languages.

The point is that Moldovan is just Romanian written in the cyrillic alphabet. The two countries share the same literary standard (and its called Romanian in Moldovan schools..). That is not comparable to Norwegian/Swedish or Bulgarian/Macedonian where you have two closely related and mutually intelligible languages with a shared dialect continuum, but both significant differences in the standard version (counting Standard East Norwegian as the de facto standard version of Norwegian) and two clearly different literary traditions. The proper parallel to Romanian/Moldovan would be Dutch/Flemish which have the same literary standard (and far less difference in vocabulary than Bulgarian/Macedonian & Norwegian/Swedish). As the literary standard influences the spoken language this is a very important difference.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2017, 12:41:04 PM »

I'm glad that this is going along, but the opposition Greece has been involved in for the last 25 years is remarkably stupid. It's somewhat odd this was even needed in the first place--it's not like Macedonia ever had the ability to invade Greece of reclaim Aegean Macedonia.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2017, 01:02:04 PM »

I'm glad that this is going along, but the opposition Greece has been involved in for the last 25 years is remarkably stupid. It's somewhat odd this was even needed in the first place--it's not like Macedonia ever had the ability to invade Greece of reclaim Aegean Macedonia.

Its the Balkan mentality. They can fight over these things forever.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2017, 06:01:36 PM »

They should double down and rename themselves Sparta or Mycenae.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2017, 06:17:12 PM »

If the Greeks spent as much time on getting their own house in order as they did lashing out at countries most of the world could not even find on a map, they wouldn't have become the first country to be downgraded to a developing country.

100%
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2017, 12:48:40 PM »

Why not triple down and go for North Greece.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2017, 03:55:47 AM »

Could they claim that Pella was their de jure capital?
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