UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem

[EPG]

Even if he were a bigot who's "spreading his hate" why should that be illegal? Hate is an emotion. You can't criminalize emotions.

So, calling to kill all Muslisms should be legal?

You really don't see a difference between these statements?

1. "We all need to hate group X."
2. "We should kill group X."

The second sentence is incitement to violence. It needs to be illegal.

The first sentence may be morally repugnant but it is nevertheless merely an opinion that contains no incitement to violence. Thus the first sentence should not be illegal, and in America it is not illegal (indeed, the US Supreme Court has even defended abstract references to violence as free speech, prohibiting only such speech that incites imminent lawless action).

Historically, 1 leads to 2. Let's get serious for a moment. If there's a free speech argument for 1 it has to be based on philosophy that accounts for the real world post the 1930s.

[Blair]

Worth seeing these tweets from someone who's prosecuted grooming cases... (much like with any criminal trial, without legal knowledge we're all really falling around in the dark)

https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/status/1000120177843941376

[Helsinkian]

So, in the US justice system the 12 jurors are sequestered to keep them from hearing reports on the trial, whereas in the UK justice system 65 million Britons are sequestered from hearing reports so that the 12 jurors would not hear them. Sounds brilliant.

[Silent Hunter]

It's a multi-part trial with other juries yet to start; you can't keep 36 people sequestered for multiple months as it costs a lot of money for the taxpayer.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Lol, this is not about hate speech or something like that. "Tommy Robbinson" wanted to interview Janusz Korwin-Mikke this Sunday as he is currently in the UK (https://www.facebook.com/progreatbritain/posts/1349655191832486) but got arrested to do not let British people be enlightened by Korwin

[EPG]

You have to not under-estimate how contingent British liberties are on the goodwill of the government. After the EU it would be pretty easy, constitutionally, to do away with most rights or even parliamentary government, given a pliant majority.

[Silent Hunter]

Yes, true. But it was also a lot easier for us to enact single-payer healthcare and actual gun control.

[Hnv1]

You have to not under-estimate how contingent British liberties are on the goodwill of the government. After the EU it would be pretty easy, constitutionally, to do away with most rights or even parliamentary government, given a pliant majority.

And still it's constitution by custom, and legal rights held by custom, are and were more stable and kept than in continental Europe with those fancy formal constitution.

[EPG]

Apart from the supremacy and sovereignty of parliament over the entire UK, sovereignty of parliament over EU legislation, parliament as final court of appeal, 1990s human rights legislation, fixed-term parliaments, the hereditary principle in the legislature, male primogeniture, royal prerogatives, yes, the British constitution is stable.  (EDIT: I forgot the dismantling of the position of the Church of England and handicaps against Catholics and non-conformists, albeit only in England and Wales.) Of course it looks stable when it's not written down anywhere. Fully going ahead with the Leveson process (like it or not) would also have been a significant change approaching the constitutional level.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Mary Wilson, widow of the prime minister Harold Wilson, dies aged 102

[Silent Hunter]

Wow. Didn't even know she was still alive.

Rest in Peace.

[Ebsy]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1016087949430218753?s=19

[Filuwaúrdjan]

At 11:30 on a Sunday evening. Totally normal behaviour.

[Ebsy]

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1016096385400279040

[Kingpoleon]

Does Robin Walker take over now?

[Blair]

Insert joke about DD going bust.

He’s been threatening to do this for months; but has effectively shat in the bed just before a very big week for the PM.

Theresa May has a Big Crunch meeting with her backbencher later

[Silent Hunter]

Does Robin Walker take over now?

Announcement due after 9am BST; it's not automatic Walker gets the job.

[Antonio the Sixth]

THE RIDE NEVER ENDS

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Lmao Raab took the job.

[mvd10]

Wasn't Raab supposed to be an ultraconservative? Or am I confusing him with someone else?

But seriously, is Raab even remotely qualified for this lol?

[IceAgeComing]

Talent or qualifications hasn't been the most important factor for Tory cabinet selections for an incredibly long time.

Its all about what faction you are from and how to please a particular brand of Tory backbenchers.

[LabourJersey]

how much does this increase the chances of a Hard Brexit?

[IceAgeComing]

It’s hard to say: the Friday letter seemed to indicate a closer relationship with Europe than earlier indications suggested and the fact that the government are talking to opposition MPs on Brexit suggests that they could be thinking that they might need opposition votes to get their Brexit deal through Parliament since the right of the Tory party could object to it.  However the thread of a no-deal thing is ever present and probably the primary risk of a very hard Brexit at this point and I don’t think that this has affected that risk at all.

[kelestian]

Boris OUT

[Blair]

May had about 15 chances to sack him; will easily go down in History as the worst foreign secretary in British History (which is an achievement in a sense)

Rather than leading to a certain type of Brexit, or a leadership change, this will basically just pour a barrel of sh**te over May, and the Tories heads. It certainly feels like June 2016 again.