World War I

[Gustaf]

Imperialism was mostly still  a good thing by that time, I suspect (with some exceptions - like Congo).

On the issue, I voted it was a good thing. It doesn't seem like anyone here takes an itnerest in the reason for joining the war, which was that a) the Germans renewed their indiscriminate submarine policy of sinking ALL ships, including civilian American ones such as Lusitania, thus killing hundreds of American citizens and b) Germany tried to enter a pact with Mexico, conspiring against the United States. Finally, Germany with their inferiority complex and world domination dreams more or less instigated the war (yeah, it was mostly Austria's fault, but to some extent also Germany's)

Finally, though the war was a silly one America's entrance probably shortened it and prevented a lot of suffering.

[Gustaf]

We should have entered the war on Germany's side

IIRC, all they wanted in a peace treaty was Alasce (sp?) & Lorraine, compared to the Allies' barbaric Treaty of Versailles (sp? darn French place names )

First, I'm going to point out that the bulk of Alsace-Lorraine had been annexed to Germany in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1.  While there were some (relatively minor) claims of French territory by Germany, there were not the subject of annexation.  Luxemburg and Belgium were however being considered for incorporation into the Second Reich.  This was the the sticking point for the British; centuries of strategy of the British were to Keep the low countries out of the hands of any great power.

One reason that the Germans wanted to annex what they did, and not all of France, was that Alsace-Lorraine was German speaking.

Second, Imperial Germany was not all that Imperialistic.  It entered the race for colonies late in the 19th Century.  Bismarck was actually opposed to colonialization and to a large navy to defend them.  What they had was exceptionally underpopulated and not profitable.  Most of Germany's colonies were overrun prior to the American entry.

Third, the Zimmerman note was basically a proposed alliance with Mexico that was predicated on the case of the US declaring war on Germany.  The reason Germany thought it was likely was that they were preparing to restart unrestricted submarine warfare.

The US wanted to be in a position where it send ships to the UK (and sell the cargos) and not enter a battle zone.  We balked at being shot at when we entered a war zone.

Yes, I would have opposed our entry into World War I, the Germans would have won and the Social Democrats (then including German Communists).  There numbers were growing and I would have expected a constitutional crisis in Germany after the war.

Didn't read this page at first. Good to see someone else straightened this out.

I'm sure you're aware of the Spartacist uprising in the early 20s? That might have happened, but in some other form.

I agree on territorial claims. France wanted to retake territories that Germany had taken in a previous war. Germany, on the other hand, wanted to expand further.

[Gustaf]

Wrong. Genocide was never really practiced even by the worst Cecil Rhodes type; it was in some German colonies though. Germany was also imperialist within Europe; the treaty of Brest-Liovsk is a good example...

And however bad the adminstration of India was (and it was dire) it was actually one of the *better* run colonial posessions (as hard as that might be to believe) at the time... much better than (say) the Dutch East Indies or French West Africa.

What German colonies? I don't know much about German colonialism.

And what you say there about the other powers might be true, but since the French are one of them it kind of proves the point that the Allies weren't really much better. And the single worse European colonizer was Belgium, simply because of what happened in the Congo. Now THAT was definite genocide. And they were on the Allies.

Belgium wasn't really part of the allies. They just got overrun by Germany, (despite the fact that German had pledged to defend Belgium against invasions...)

[Gustaf]

To say that people are put in places is just silly. Why don't you give the entire American continent back to the Indians then?