WaPo: Russian amb. told Moscow that Jared wanted secret communications w Kremlin

[ProudModerate2]

It also seems dubious Jared would do all this without his father in law knowing, especially given Flynn and Page's extensive Russian contacts and Trump's own business ties to Russia.

Agree.
If this story is true, and if Kushner was doing this to financially aid his own business (as someone here speculated), there is no way that he would do this without trump's knowledge and without the assurance that trump's own companies, would somehow also benefit.

Any speculation that Jared would do this solo, to only benefit him and not the president, is foolish.

[Nyvin]

It also seems dubious Jared would do all this without his father in law knowing, especially given Flynn and Page's extensive Russian contacts and Trump's own business ties to Russia.

Agree.
If this story is true, and if Kushner was doing this to financially aid his own business (as someone here speculated), there is no way that he would do this without trump's knowledge and without the assurance that trump's own companies, would somehow also benefit.

Any speculation that Jared would do this solo, to only benefit him and not the president, is foolish.

Not to mention that theory would completely ignore the Russian contacts with Paul Manafort, Jeff Sessions, Rex Tillerson, Steve Bannon, and Carter Page, and doesn't fully explain all of Mike Flynn's contacts.

To suggest Jared Kushner acted as a rogue agent in this for his own interests requires DEEP rose tinted glasses.

[The_Doctor]

My theory ahead and biased thinking so spoilers ahead so you can skip this if you want.

The honest truth is that I begin to think the real scandal is that Trump received financial and political benefits from Russia during his presidential campaign in return for undertaking a softer line on Moscow. Russia may have outright manipulated the campaign and the campaign went along with it to damage Clinton. That's collusion in a sense but I don't believe intentionally. Had Trump thought he would win I don't think he would've done any of this.

I really think it was incompetence and greed that propelled the communications not a conscious desire to betray the United States. The campaign may have justified itself by thinking that they could later contain Russia if need be, in the event they won. They may have even concluded they were using Russia.

Remember nobody thought Trump would win. Russia probably wanted to damage the incoming Clinton administration and they had several ins with the Trump campaign. They likely used Donald Trump's desire for business ties with Russia, bribed Flynn and Kushner, and then tried to sow chaos with Wikileaks. Trump figured he would go back to the private sector and make millions more.

The mistake may be that they won. I don't think Putin anticipated that or the subsequent investigation. But the chaos right now benefits him too. So he won either way.

It fits with what we know about Russia's interference with other elections. They may in fact be damaging Trump now to sow even more chaos.

[ProudModerate2]

Elmo meme!

KingSweden,
I think that was your cue.

[Maxwell]

The buck has officially been passed to Jared then?

[Wiz in Wis]

By popular demand:

[Technocracy Timmy]

[ProudModerate2]

Isn't this, like, literally treason or espionage? The fact that he's the president elect son-in-law and advisor doesn't seem to change that

I would think so.
Maybe not a high-level offense of treason/espionage, but maybe something in the (law) books where this is a lower-moderate level offense in that category.
? (Possibly)

[Hindsight was 2020]

Just a warning to Jared in jail pretty boys like him eat rings that aren't koshier

[Matty]

Didn't bannon recently make some statement alluding to kushner skeletons coming out?

[ProudModerate2]

Sadly true. If he is convicted of anything while Trump is in office he will be pardoned in less than 24 hours.

I thought I read something here on Atlas, that alluded to the fact that since Congress (or the Supreme Court) formally filed some kind of papers related to the investigation, that the president could not longer pardon anyone related to the entire inquiry.

Not sure if there was much truth to it.
Can anyone add any insight into this.

[KingSweden]

Elmo meme!

KingSweden,
I think that was your cue.

Man I stay away from here for a few hours as I move into my house, and what do I miss...

[emailking]

Sadly true. If he is convicted of anything while Trump is in office he will be pardoned in less than 24 hours.

I thought I read something here on Atlas, that alluded to the fact that since Congress (or the Supreme Court) formally filed some kind of papers related to the investigation, that the president could not longer pardon anyone related to the entire inquiry.

Not sure if there was much truth to it.
Can anyone add any insight into this.

That's not correct. The President can pardon any federal crime or commute or reduce any sentence. The only limitation is that the President cannot stop an impeachment.

[Angrie]

Elmo meme!

KingSweden,
I think that was your cue.

Man I stay away from here for a few hours as I move into my house, and what do I miss...

It is getting a bit crazy having 10-15 nuclear elmos per day. Something has to be done about this. Is there a way it can be made more selective? Maybe there needs to be some kind of new weapon, that is even more powerful than nukes, to find a way to distinguish some things. Maybe like a supernova bomb or something?

[pbrower2a]

This is going to cut into the part of the Right that considers national security important. President Trump cannot promote enough spending on national security to offset the damage that his leaks and collusion have done.

If I wanted a President to do more harm to America's allies, I could hardly think of worse than Trump. Maybe Gus Hall (the late leader of the Communist Party of the United States) would have done worse, but that is really stretching the concept of 'leader'. Even the strawman that Nixon made out of George McGovern could never have done that sort of damage.

OK, even without malign intent, Donald Trump just isn't up to the job. Incompetence can prove as harmful as well-executed malice.

I saw Donald Trump as trouble on issues of national security. Obama might not be a chest-thumping nationalist, but at the least he did nothing dirty to the Armed Forces or the intelligence services; he paid attention to intel; and he kept his mouth shut when something was going on, exposing what was done strictly as a formality when anyone else could have figured out.

What would you rather have?  

[ApatheticAustrian]

Sanchez, I feel if Jared did something illegal his father in law would cover up for him, honestly. He can't cut family loose. Also the President will never cut the family from the White House because frankly that's who he relies on to run the White House.

I agree on obstruction of justice but in the first place we should examine why they went to great lengths to obstruct justice.

I don't see how you can get rid of Jared Kushner without getting rid of Donald Trump. The guy is literally the father of the President's grandchildren.

Sadly true. If he is convicted of anything while Trump is in office he will be pardoned in less than 24 hours.

Oh he'll walk out of the court like Scooter Libby with the pardon in hand. That isn't impossible, but I agree with TD. A pardon is an admission of guilt, and if Kushner endangers the Trump clan, he might be left dangling in the wind. Trump isn't known for being loyal to his aides, as Chris Christie can attest to. I don't view that as a flaw of course (flexibility is fine, as Obama noted to Medvedev) but it is what it is.

A pardon (if it even got to that level) would destroy Trump's presidency, and he knows it.

in which ways, if i may ask?

Isn't it obvious? It would be an implicit admission of guilt and give credence to the Russia stories that 40% of the country is blowing off.

sure - but i don't think that this is enough without massive democratic gains.

[I Won - Get Over It]

From WaPo article:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

1) Trump&Kushner were afraid of leaks. There were totally right.
2) Trump wants to 'get along with Russia'. Especially in Middle East. BREAKING!
2) It is pretty normal in in Business world to have 'back channel'.
3) United Arab Emirates. See 2)

So likely nothingsburger again
As always with Trump it might be very improper and/or stupid, but it is neither strange or illegal.


From NyT
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/us/politics/kushner-talked-to-russian-envoy-about-creating-secret-channel-with-kremlin.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Hindsight was 2020]

I wonder how much further Trumpers will push the "nothingburger" line because I've been hearing that since the news first broke on Flynn

[Brittain33]

I wonder how much further Trumpers will push the "nothingburger" line because I've been hearing that since the news first broke on Flynn

I remember calling the Comey letter a nothingburger here last October.

[Blue3]

A pardon (if it even got to that level) would destroy Trump's presidency, and he knows it.

Just like so many other things have been predicted to "destroy Trump"?

Or maybe his presidency is already destroyed, so why not?

[Virginiá]

A pardon (if it even got to that level) would destroy Trump's presidency, and he knows it.

Just like so many other things have been predicted to "destroy Trump"?

Or maybe his presidency is already destroyed, so why not?

It kind of destroys the narrative that there are/were no crimes being committed. If he's innocent, then the investigators will find nothing, and there is no need for a pardon. The only defense left at that point is maybe something along the lines of "the establishment would have cooked up fake charges anyway," which I really doubt would be bought into by all of Trump's remaining 39% - 41% supporters.

[EnglishPete]

I wonder how much further Trumpers will push the "nothingburger" line because I've been hearing that since the news first broke on Flynn

Because its been true ever since the news first broke on Flynn.

[Horus]

So Kushner is the fall guy. Makes sense if you think about it.

[Beet]

So Kushner is the fall guy. Makes sense if you think about it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a false flag planted by Russia to get rid of Kushner.

[Hindsight was 2020]

I wonder how much further Trumpers will push the "nothingburger" line because I've been hearing that since the news first broke on Flynn

Because its been true ever since the news first broke on Flynn.

Right cause the former NSA director whom Trump had on his vp shortlist going to jail is a nothingburger.