UK General Election, June 8th 2017

[Lachi]

Omg Pete, you excpect us to take THAT sh*t seriously?

[DavidB.]

As recently as 2014 Corbyn wrote in a communist newspaper that he attended a wreath laying for one of the Munich terrorists

Quote "The Sunday Times has a story that Jeremy Corbyn attended a wreath-laying at the grave of a Palestinian terrorist involved in the Munich massacre. Guido can give a little more detail…

In October 2014 Corbyn wrote an article for the communist Morning Star newspaper in which he recounts attending a wreath-laying ceremony. He writes:

“After wreaths were laid at the graves of those who died on that day [at Sabra and Shatila] and on the graves of others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991, we moved to the poignant statue in the main avenue of the coastal town of Ben Arous, which was festooned with Palestinian and Tunisian flags.”
There is no record of any Mossad operation which killed anyone in Paris in 1991. However, Mossad is believed to have carried out an assassination in Paris on June 8, 1992. Atef Bseiso was the PLO head of intelligence and was one of the Palestinian terrorists who carried out the Munich massacre. " End Quote

https://order-order.com/2017/05/28/corbyn-honoured-munich-massacre-terrorist/

It's crystal clear that you can't be a self-respecting Jew and vote for Corbyn's Labour Party. Just impossible, no matter how sensible some of his other stances may be.

[Shadows]

Is this really about Jewish people anymore or a blind support to the extreme Saudi Arabia-Netanyahu brand of human rights abuse? How much of this is total exaggeration & weird irrelevant connections to fuel islamophobia? Especially the treatment of Palestine people as if they should all be treated under the broad umbrella of terrorism & as a dehumanized lot is sad. Corbyn went to visit the graves of PLO members a few years earlier. PLO is the official representative organization of Palestine. He didn't offer any wreaths to the person being highlighted, nor did he endorse or even acknowledge that person.

PLO - It is recognized as the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people" by over 100 states with which it holds diplomatic relations and has enjoyed observer status at the United Nations since 1974.  In 1993, the PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, accepted UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, and rejected "violence and terrorism"; in response, Israel officially recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people.

[Lachi]

Lol, Guido fauxes "blog" is full of conspiracy, and even goes as far to call other labour members "co-conspirators"

[Shadows]

The new Yougov poll is interesting, although Labour seems to have lost 2%, Greens & SNP each have gained 1% each in the new poll suggesting no major ideological shift (SNP, Greens are more similar in broad economic & social policies to Labour than Tortes).


Tory - 43% (0)
Lab - 36% (-2)
Lib-Dem - 9% (-1)
UKIP - 4% (0)
SNP - 5% (+1)
Greens - 2% (+1)

Labour is down as the voting % for 18-24 in this poll is lower.

18-24 - 57% (-6% from last poll), 25-49 - 57% (+2), 50-64 - 66%(-3), 65+ - 75% (-1).


Age                       18-24                      25-49                             50-64                          65+

Tory               12 (-10)                 34  (+3)                        46 (+1)                   66 (-1)
Labour           69 (+10)                44 (-4)                         32 (0)                      16 (-3)
Lib-Dem          8   (-6)                 10 (-1)                          9 (0)                        9 (0)
UKIP              2   (+1)                
SNP/PYC         6   (+3)                  
Greens           3  (+1)                                                                                        


Raw numbers wise, Corbyn keeps most of his votes intact but gains massively among young voters to take a gigantic 69%-12% lead among 18-24. Theresa May is now getting an embarassing 12% & is trailing by a mammoth 57% among 18-24. This huge loss among 18-24 voters is keeping her lead to 7% only.

But this is an ominous sign for Conservatives if the younger generations are so diametrically different to it's core older voters & is so polarized against it ideologically. Tories will face major problems after 4-5 years. This polarization is much worse than in the US !

[EnglishPete]

Lol, Guido fauxes "blog" is full of conspiracy, and even goes as far to call other labour members "co-conspirators"

The Guiido article is quoting the Sunday Times (which I didn't quote directly as its behind a paywall) which is in turn quoting Corbyn's own words in the communist Morning Star newspaper.

Note: Although the Morning Star is owned by the Communist Party of Britain it is not run as a CPB newspaper (the CPG has a separate official publication for party members). It is rather aimed at the far left in general and is effectively the trade paper of far left activists, organisers and union officials of various factions in Britain.

[EnglishPete]

Omg Pete, you excpect us to take THAT sh*t seriously?

Up to you what you take seriously isn't it.

Jeremy Corbyn has spent a lifetime concern trolling Britain, the US, Israel and the West in general. Whenever Britain and the West are facing a violent enemy his prescription is always the same. He will always give words of comfort and apology to the enemy whilst at the same to e telling Brits that he only wants peace but that the best way to get it is to disarm, take away any of our defences and accept the enemy's demand because they're not really an enemy. This prescription, of course, always goes double for Israel.

Its concern trolling as a form of treachery and any British voter thinking of voting for this scumbag of his party needs to take a good hard look in the mirror if they are capable of any sense of shame.

[cp]

Corbyn has spent his entire career in public service, often ridiculed for positions that were subsequently vindicated in the court of public opinion (opposing apartheid and the Iraq War, advocating renationalization of major industries, being skeptical of the EU, just to name a few). His view of the world, what constitutes his country's interests, and who ought to be treated as its enemies may be different than yours, but they are legitimate and mainstream - increasingly so, if the polls are to be believed.

Like it or not, Corbyn is a patriot. Deal with it.

On a semi-related note, it seems there is a reason why the Tories are getting so nervous and desperate with their anti-Corbyn hysteria ... Theresa May to relaunch Conservative election campaign amid fears Labour could take lead in opinion polls.

[Blair]

Corbyn has spent his entire career in public service, often ridiculed for positions that were subsequently vindicated in the court of public opinion (opposing apartheid and the Iraq War, advocating renationalization of major industries, being skeptical of the EU, just to name a few). His view of the world, what constitutes his country's interests, and who ought to be treated as its enemies may be different than yours, but they are legitimate and mainstream - increasingly so, if the polls are to be believed.

Like it or not, Corbyn is a patriot. Deal with it.

On a semi-related note, it seems there is a reason why the Tories are getting so nervous and desperate with their anti-Corbyn hysteria ... Theresa May to relaunch Conservative election campaign amid fears Labour could take lead in opinion polls.

Corbyn has hardly been a public servant- can you name one bill/one activity that the's done in parliament over the last 30 years that's been significant?

He's also held batsh**t crazy views that should be consigned to the wastebin of history- e.g supporting genocide deniers in Serbia, laying wreaths for people who carried out Munich Terror attacks, wanting to get rid of NATO

I have to admit I'm finding it harder and harder to vote Labour when it comes down to the idea that A.) My vote will be used as a figure for inflating Corbynism B.) I'd be voting to put Dianne Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn in COBRA meetings

[Shadows]

English Pete supports UKIP, afd right? He claimed that (the islamophobic anti-semitic white supremacist paper) Breitbart was decent & Guardian was a communist paper when the Republican candidate for Montana's congressional seat was assaulted for asking a question about healthcare & trying to downplay it & pretend like it doesn't matter. I mean you care about Israel & think the anti-semitic Breitbart is great?

He quotes Infowars, a conspiracy theory site which propagated than Obama was a muslim born in Kenya & that Hillary-Clinton are actual demons (they smell of sulphur & what not garbage). He even posted about the garbage Milo guy.

When someone is so far detached from the main-stream, it is obvious that they will find anything that Corbyn does is radical!

[jaichind]

Survation poll

CON           43
LAB            37
LIB              8
UKIP           4

[Shadows]

Corbyn has spent his entire career in public service, often ridiculed for positions that were subsequently vindicated in the court of public opinion (opposing apartheid and the Iraq War, advocating renationalization of major industries, being skeptical of the EU, just to name a few). His view of the world, what constitutes his country's interests, and who ought to be treated as its enemies may be different than yours, but they are legitimate and mainstream - increasingly so, if the polls are to be believed.

Like it or not, Corbyn is a patriot. Deal with it.

On a semi-related note, it seems there is a reason why the Tories are getting so nervous and desperate with their anti-Corbyn hysteria ... Theresa May to relaunch Conservative election campaign amid fears Labour could take lead in opinion polls.

Corbyn has hardly been a public servant- can you name one bill/one activity that the's done in parliament over the last 30 years that's been significant?

He's also held batsh**t crazy views that should be consigned to the wastebin of history- e.g supporting genocide deniers in Serbia, laying wreaths for people who carried out Munich Terror attacks, wanting to get rid of NATO

I have to admit I'm finding it harder and harder to vote Labour when it comes down to the idea that A.) My vote will be used as a figure for inflating Corbynism B.) I'd be voting to put Dianne Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn in COBRA meetings

When did he lay wreath on Munich attackers? Are you inventing stuff now to disparage Corbyn?

About dear English pete

Apart from being a huge supporter of Trump, Englishpete called the Montana assault on a reporter (despite overwhelming proof of audio tape, witness testimony from even conservatives) fake & a set-up to take Trump! His favorite the rebel media runs articles like "10 things I hate about Israel" !

He's peddling in conspiracy theories & Sean Hannity's tweets that DNC murdered it's data guy Seth Rich! He doubts about the whole Nixon scandal was kind of a couple & in various conspiracy theories.

[adma]

Ooohh, this thread's getting "political".

[Blair]

Corbyn has spent his entire career in public service, often ridiculed for positions that were subsequently vindicated in the court of public opinion (opposing apartheid and the Iraq War, advocating renationalization of major industries, being skeptical of the EU, just to name a few). His view of the world, what constitutes his country's interests, and who ought to be treated as its enemies may be different than yours, but they are legitimate and mainstream - increasingly so, if the polls are to be believed.

Like it or not, Corbyn is a patriot. Deal with it.

On a semi-related note, it seems there is a reason why the Tories are getting so nervous and desperate with their anti-Corbyn hysteria ... Theresa May to relaunch Conservative election campaign amid fears Labour could take lead in opinion polls.

Corbyn has hardly been a public servant- can you name one bill/one activity that the's done in parliament over the last 30 years that's been significant?

He's also held batsh**t crazy views that should be consigned to the wastebin of history- e.g supporting genocide deniers in Serbia, laying wreaths for people who carried out Munich Terror attacks, wanting to get rid of NATO

I have to admit I'm finding it harder and harder to vote Labour when it comes down to the idea that A.) My vote will be used as a figure for inflating Corbynism B.) I'd be voting to put Dianne Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn in COBRA meetings

When did he lay wreath on Munich attackers? Are you inventing stuff now to disparage Corbyn?

No I'm not; I really don't need to invent stuff when I've got at least a dozen examples.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/corbyn-attended-ceremony-honouring-munich-terrorist-1.439294

https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/869087783394168832

[parochial boy]

Guys, if you want to carry on this argument somewhere else, I've got a trash can you can use

[cp]

Guys, if you want to carry on this argument somewhere else, I've got a trash can you can used

I'm sorry. It's my fault. I should have known better than to feed the trolls.

As penance, let me share this bit of behind-the-scenes strategy reporting from the guardian.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/29/may-v-corbyn-debate-tactics-explained-by-former-top-tory-aides?CMP=share_btn_tw

[Blair]

Guys, if you want to carry on this argument somewhere else, I've got a trash can you can used

I'm sorry. It's my fault. I should have known better than to feed the trolls.

Yes as someone who's been a Labour member since I was 17, has worked for the party and devoted frankly too much energy to it I'm clearly just a troll

[EnglishPete]

I mean you care about Israel & think the anti-semitic Breitbart is great?

This idea that Breitbart is antisemitic seem to be based on a headline quoted out of context referring to Bill Kristol as a 'Renegade Jew'. If you actually look at the article below the, admittedly provocative, headline you will see that its written by an Orthodox Jewish journalist who is criticising Kristol not for being (as actual antisemites would claim) a 'renegade for the Jews' but rather a 'renegade' against them. A betrayer of Jewish interests by not supporting the pro Israel candidate. Brietbart is far more philosemitic and pro Israel than most major publications.

As for Infowars they publish some great articles but I no more take them as gospel than any other source. I certainly wouldn't go for some of the David Like type stuff they used to go into.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

The smears of Corbyn amount to re-stating that he's on the "hard left" of the Labour Party. I'm not fond of the hard left and I think many of his actions were distasteful but nothing he's done crosses the boundary that lies between being a useful idiot and being actively malicious. The problem of the right is that, as of late, has decided that portraying him as a shadowy and malicious figure is a better tactic than portraying him as a bumbling simpleton. The latter portrayal is accurate and believable. The former portrayal is not.

Corbyn, in many respects, is an unpleasant man and he's clearly a bumbling fool but it's pretty hard to argue that he doesn't have the right intentions or that he doesn't care for the welfare of people. He's clearly not someone who approves of violence and the right's insistence that this is the case comes across as hysterical and deranged.

[EnglishPete]

Guys, if you want to carry on this argument somewhere else, I've got a trash can you can used

I've started a new thread in the International general discussion section of the board.

[EnglishPete]

Corbyn has spent his entire career in public service, often ridiculed for positions that were subsequently vindicated in the court of public opinion (opposing apartheid and the Iraq War, advocating renationalization of major industries, being skeptical of the EU, just to name a few). His view of the world, what constitutes his country's interests, and who ought to be treated as its enemies may be different than yours, but they are legitimate and mainstream - increasingly so, if the polls are to be believed.

Like it or not, Corbyn is a patriot. Deal with it.

On a semi-related note, it seems there is a reason why the Tories are getting so nervous and desperate with their anti-Corbyn hysteria ... Theresa May to relaunch Conservative election campaign amid fears Labour could take lead in opinion polls.

I've replied to this post in the other thread.

[Shadows]

I mean you care about Israel & think the anti-semitic Breitbart is great?

This idea that Breitbart is antisemitic seem to be based on a headline quoted out of context referring to Bill Kristol as a 'Renegade Jew'. If you actually look at the article below the, admittedly provocative, headline you will see that its written by an Orthodox Jewish journalist who is criticising Kristol not for being (as actual antisemites would claim) a 'renegade for the Jews' but rather a 'renegade' against them. A betrayer of Jewish interests by not supporting the pro Israel candidate. Brietbart is far more philosemitic and pro Israel than most major publications.

As for Infowars they publish some great articles but I no more take them as gospel than any other source. I certainly wouldn't go for some of the David Like type stuff they used to go into.

I don't want to derail this thread but Breitbart is a white Supremacist organization which special news on Black on black crime from all over the world, runs articles like women with birth control are unattractive, women should log off in-case of sexual harassment. They have made articles on hoisting the racist & slavery era relic, the Confederate flag & that it should be proudly displayed. Gay rights are dumber, is feminism worse or cancer - And so on!
 
Infowars sold shirts like "Bill Clinton rape", "Hillary Clinton for Prison" & paid people to go with this t-shirts & sound garbage in rallies. Infowars ran fake stories (had to apologize on court multiple times for fake disparaging stories) that Muslims in America were celebrating 9/11, called Clinton was a "Devil worshipper". They ran stories like "Pizzagate" that Hillary Clinton ran a paedophile sex racket (then had to apologize in court for it). He also made a documentary that 9/11 was also a conspiracy theory as jet fuel can't melt steam beams in his words.

Some of other Infowars conspiracy theories - Bill Gates want to get rid of minority ethnicities, Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax, the weather is controlled by the government, Boston bombing was done by the Navy , globalists put Fluoride in the water of Americans! These are fantastic sources !

[Shadows]

Corbyn has spent his entire career in public service, often ridiculed for positions that were subsequently vindicated in the court of public opinion (opposing apartheid and the Iraq War, advocating renationalization of major industries, being skeptical of the EU, just to name a few). His view of the world, what constitutes his country's interests, and who ought to be treated as its enemies may be different than yours, but they are legitimate and mainstream - increasingly so, if the polls are to be believed.

Like it or not, Corbyn is a patriot. Deal with it.

On a semi-related note, it seems there is a reason why the Tories are getting so nervous and desperate with their anti-Corbyn hysteria ... Theresa May to relaunch Conservative election campaign amid fears Labour could take lead in opinion polls.

Corbyn has hardly been a public servant- can you name one bill/one activity that the's done in parliament over the last 30 years that's been significant?

He's also held batsh**t crazy views that should be consigned to the wastebin of history- e.g supporting genocide deniers in Serbia, laying wreaths for people who carried out Munich Terror attacks, wanting to get rid of NATO

I have to admit I'm finding it harder and harder to vote Labour when it comes down to the idea that A.) My vote will be used as a figure for inflating Corbynism B.) I'd be voting to put Dianne Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn in COBRA meetings

When did he lay wreath on Munich attackers? Are you inventing stuff now to disparage Corbyn?

No I'm not; I really don't need to invent stuff when I've got at least a dozen examples.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/corbyn-attended-ceremony-honouring-munich-terrorist-1.439294

https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/869087783394168832

That is incredibly stupid of him. Did he even know that among the dead people in the bombing on whose graves, he was putting wreaths on, 1 or more were connected to the Munich Terror attacks? Surely he did, having been in politics for so long! Regardless of his knowledge, t is incredibly stupid of him & would probably hurt him!

The guy can't even lie properly. In that interview, he couldn't even get himself to say that he now supports the Nuclear Triad whole-heartedly but only that the party has approved it & will goes on.

[DavidB.]

Breitbart is not antisemitic.

Corbyn, in many respects, is an unpleasant man and he's clearly a bumbling fool but it's pretty hard to argue that he doesn't have the right intentions or that he doesn't care for the welfare of people. He's clearly not someone who approves of violence and the right's insistence that this is the case comes across as hysterical and deranged.

He doubtlessly cares about the welfare of his people, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Hugo Chavez probably cared about his people too. As for Corbyn not being someone who approves of violence, surely you could see why some think that him speaking of his "friends of Hamas and Hezbollah" suggests otherwise?

[parochial boy]

Breitbart is not antisemitic.

Corbyn, in many respects, is an unpleasant man and he's clearly a bumbling fool but it's pretty hard to argue that he doesn't have the right intentions or that he doesn't care for the welfare of people. He's clearly not someone who approves of violence and the right's insistence that this is the case comes across as hysterical and deranged.

He doubtlessly cares about the welfare of his people, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Hugo Chavez probably cared about his people too. As for Corbyn not being someone who approves of violence, surely you could see why some think that him speaking of his "friends of Hamas and Hezbollah" suggests otherwise?

It's the old trap that the far left have a habit of falling into, in considering that anyone who stands up to "western imperialism" must be the good guys (and having said that, "both sides do it™" - see Reagan supporting the genocidal Contras, or contemporary US support for brutal dictatorships in Central Asia and the Arab Peninsula).

But can we please get back to talking about the election? not having this stupid "yes he did" "no he didn't" tit for tat?