Arctic Ice Cap melting

[CARLHAYDEN]

This is no laughing matter, guys. This is an actual serious issue that is effecting thousands of people, and will effect millions in the next century. Any ignorance (and indeed debate) of the subject will only make things worse.

Look, stop listening to Mr. Wierd Science (JFern) and look at the facts.

Global tempratures, including the ice cap, have changed over the centuries.

The major culprit in these changes is solar cycles.

[Giant Saguaro]

Global warming is indeed here, the question is to what degree is humankind contributing to it? To me, that's the big question. There's just too much evidence out there to say the Earth is indeed warming and I believe we are contributing to it, I just don't know how much. I mean all the pollution and garbage that US and world cities produce alone goes somewhere. It's not just absorbed and zapped off into space.

[J. J.]

This is no laughing matter, guys. This is an actual serious issue that is effecting thousands of people, and will effect millions in the next century. Any ignorance (and indeed debate) of the subject will only make things worse.

Look, stop listening to Mr. Wierd Science (JFern) and look at the facts.

Global tempratures, including the ice cap, have changed over the centuries.

The major culprit in these changes is solar cycles.

We have to ask a question.  Why did the ice caps grow over the past century.  They are back to where they were about a century ago.  Something, and we really don't know what, caused them to grow for part of the last century.  If polutants were the cause, why are they not causing it now.  If they were not the cause, are they preventing cooling.  

We don't have the answers.  We could take a course of action to remove polutants and discover that we've made America what it once was, a glacial wasteland.  We don't have the evidence as of yet.

We should be getting that evidence and then make a decision, but we shouldn't as "Mr. Wierd Science" suggests, make that decision without the evidence.  We could actually look at the situation and decide that we have to increase polutants to stabilize the situation.  We need the evidence, and at best, it's contradictory so far.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

A very good read

So you're saying that since it's not "fact" because there isn't enough "evidence", we should ignore the problem? I really hope you opposed the Iraq war. We wouldn't want you to be the world's biggest hypocrite.

I hope you supported it since you seem to be saying here that a lack of evidence means we should act immediately and rashly.

As for the war, I believed the CIA evidence.

I never said we need to act immediately and rashing. You are a pathetic intellectually dishonest hypocrite, Mr. 94% correlation is always insignificant.

I am basing this on previous statements of yours in other threads.

Keep bringing up the correlation stuff.  It really helps your credibility.

Your stance seems to be we have no real world evidence here, so global warming is real.

We had evidence on Iraq, so it must be false.

I'm done though.  Out smarting you is no longer fun and was never challenging.  I'll leave it to other people.

I will move on to more challenging intellectual opponents, like my 6 month old nephew, or my dog.  Or StatesRights™.


P.S.  If you want to do one of those things where you challenge someone to contradict you, wait ten minutes, then post that their lack of response proves that you were right all along, now would be a good time since I won't respond.  I figure your frail, little ego could use a little boosting.

You do realize that you and J.J. were wrong on the statistics? Anyone who know statistics knows that you and J.J. are wrong, 94% heads and a 94% correlation are statistically significant if you have enough data points. You guys have no credibility or intellectual honesty.  Bush lied on Iraq. You are a hypocrite for beliving someone who had already been busted repeatedly for lying, while thinking that global warming is crap.

[KEmperor]

You do realize that you and J.J. were wrong on the statistics? Anyone who know statistics knows that you and J.J. are wrong, 94% heads and a 94% correlation are statistically significant if you have enough data points. You guys have no credibility or intellectual honesty.  Bush lied on Iraq. You are a hypocrite for beliving someone who had already been busted repeatedly for lying, while thinking that global warming is crap.

With the exception of the last 6 words, absolutely none of that has anything to do with the issue of global warming, and none of it disproves his arguments regarding global warming.

[Richard]

What is it with all these f'ing sh**tballs that don't know their basic physics.  Take a cup, fill it 1/2 with water, put 5 ice cubes in it, measure the water level, wait for the ice cubes to melt, and look where the water level is.

What happened?

Thats right folks, it DROPPED.  Yes, yes, yes, the myth is true, ice is less dense than water...

[J. J.]

You do realize that you and J.J. were wrong on the statistics? Anyone who know statistics knows that you and J.J. are wrong, 94% heads and a 94% correlation are statistically significant if you have enough data points. You guys have no credibility or intellectual honesty.  Bush lied on Iraq. You are a hypocrite for beliving someone who had already been busted repeatedly for lying, while thinking that global warming is crap.

With the exception of the last 6 words, absolutely none of that has anything to do with the issue of global warming, and none of it disproves his arguments regarding global warming.

No, but it might be indicitive Jfern's mental state and an exceptionally good argument about why we shouldn't listen to him.  :-)

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You do realize that you and J.J. were wrong on the statistics? Anyone who know statistics knows that you and J.J. are wrong, 94% heads and a 94% correlation are statistically significant if you have enough data points. You guys have no credibility or intellectual honesty.  Bush lied on Iraq. You are a hypocrite for beliving someone who had already been busted repeatedly for lying, while thinking that global warming is crap.

With the exception of the last 6 words, absolutely none of that has anything to do with the issue of global warming, and none of it disproves his arguments regarding global warming.

I am just point out that he has no credibility. Why should I argue things that aren't black and white with him, when he can't accept absolute truth (that 94% correlation can be significant)?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You do realize that you and J.J. were wrong on the statistics? Anyone who know statistics knows that you and J.J. are wrong, 94% heads and a 94% correlation are statistically significant if you have enough data points. You guys have no credibility or intellectual honesty.  Bush lied on Iraq. You are a hypocrite for beliving someone who had already been busted repeatedly for lying, while thinking that global warming is crap.

With the exception of the last 6 words, absolutely none of that has anything to do with the issue of global warming, and none of it disproves his arguments regarding global warming.

No, but it might be indicitive Jfern's mental state and an exceptionally good argument about why we shouldn't listen to him.  :-)

Whatever you say, Mr-94%-heads-and-94%-correlation-are-always-insignificant.

[??????????]

What is it with all these f'ing sh**tballs that don't know their basic physics.  Take a cup, fill it 1/2 with water, put 5 ice cubes in it, measure the water level, wait for the ice cubes to melt, and look where the water level is.

What happened?

Thats right folks, it DROPPED.  Yes, yes, yes, the myth is true, ice is less dense than water...

No it doesn't, it ends up equal to when the ice was first put in there.

[John Dibble]

What is it with all these f'ing sh**tballs that don't know their basic physics.  Take a cup, fill it 1/2 with water, put 5 ice cubes in it, measure the water level, wait for the ice cubes to melt, and look where the water level is.

What happened?

Thats right folks, it DROPPED.  Yes, yes, yes, the myth is true, ice is less dense than water...

While I don't believe in global warming to the extent of the doomsday ranters, I am going to have to correct you here - the ice caps aren't just floating pieces of ice, they are actually on landmass. If the ice was all floating in the ocean, your point would stand, but the fact is that much of the ice that they are talking about actually is on land - meaning that if it all did melt then it would probably increase the ocean depth a bit. (how much I'm not sure)

However, it wouldn't get to that point in all likeliness - the more ice that melts, the more fresh water that is introduced into the oceans. Ice has no salt in it. If you have a tool that measures salinity of water, you can do an experiment by taking some salt water, measuring salinity, then putting it into the freezer for an hour, remove the frozen water, and measure salinity of the remaining water - it'll be greater than before because the ice will have left it's salt behind. Why does this matter? The thermohaline cycle, which moves warm air currents northward, would become weaker when the fresh water is introduced and we'd have an ice age(so the ice would build back up again).

[Hatman 🍁]

What is it with all these f'ing sh**tballs that don't know their basic physics.  Take a cup, fill it 1/2 with water, put 5 ice cubes in it, measure the water level, wait for the ice cubes to melt, and look where the water level is.

What happened?

Thats right folks, it DROPPED.  Yes, yes, yes, the myth is true, ice is less dense than water...

You're an idiot. Not all ice is in the oceans, dumbass.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I think I've made my position on climate change fairly clear on several occasions in the recent past...
Personally I don't like a lot of the arguements from either side... scaremongering or chronic denial... and both founded (up to a point) on dodgy science.
Why can't we all accept that:

1. Climate Change (note *not* "Global Warming"... which is innacurate unless you have a thing for overall global tempreture. And I can't think of a more useless sort of statistic) is real
2. Some is natural
3. Some is the result of human activity
4. In the long run it doesn't matter as the Ice is coming back in a few thousand years
5. It could, however, have some serious short term effects on certain low lying areas
6. Something should be done to cut back on emmisions etc.
7. China fitting it's smokestacks with filters (like everyone else) would be a welcome start

[Richard]

What is it with all these f'ing sh**tballs that don't know their basic physics.  Take a cup, fill it 1/2 with water, put 5 ice cubes in it, measure the water level, wait for the ice cubes to melt, and look where the water level is.

What happened?

Thats right folks, it DROPPED.  Yes, yes, yes, the myth is true, ice is less dense than water...

No it doesn't, it ends up equal to when the ice was first put in there.

Um, NO.

[Richard]

While I don't believe in global warming to the extent of the doomsday ranters, I am going to have to correct you here - the ice caps aren't just floating pieces of ice, they are actually on landmass.

Because of the VAST continent that covers the North Pole.  Right.

Much of the ice is in the water and over water.  The North Pole area is covered in ice and covers the North Sea for many thousands of square miles.

[KEmperor]

While I don't believe in global warming to the extent of the doomsday ranters, I am going to have to correct you here - the ice caps aren't just floating pieces of ice, they are actually on landmass.

Because of the VAST continent that covers the North Pole.  Right.

Much of the ice is in the water and over water.  The North Pole area is covered in ice and covers the North Sea for many thousands of square miles.

Yes, but much of the ice cap covers Greenland.

[Richard]

Q(water) > Q(land)

[Hatman 🍁]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

[??????????]

What is it with all these f'ing sh**tballs that don't know their basic physics.  Take a cup, fill it 1/2 with water, put 5 ice cubes in it, measure the water level, wait for the ice cubes to melt, and look where the water level is.

What happened?

Thats right folks, it DROPPED.  Yes, yes, yes, the myth is true, ice is less dense than water...

No it doesn't, it ends up equal to when the ice was first put in there.

Um, NO.

OK Fill a cup up with ice and then fill it to the VERY top with water. I mean right on the brim of the cup. When the ice melts it will NOT overflow.

[J. J.]

You do realize that you and J.J. were wrong on the statistics? Anyone who know statistics knows that you and J.J. are wrong, 94% heads and a 94% correlation are statistically significant if you have enough data points. You guys have no credibility or intellectual honesty.  Bush lied on Iraq. You are a hypocrite for beliving someone who had already been busted repeatedly for lying, while thinking that global warming is crap.

With the exception of the last 6 words, absolutely none of that has anything to do with the issue of global warming, and none of it disproves his arguments regarding global warming.

No, but it might be indicitive Jfern's mental state and an exceptionally good argument about why we shouldn't listen to him.  :-)

Whatever you say, Mr-94%-heads-and-94%-correlation-are-always-insignificant.

You just illustrated the point, again.

[J. J.]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

I'm not exactly sure that we should change the entire industrial production society of the planet for the sake of the 11,500 residents of Tuvalu. 

I'm sorry, but if I have to make a choice between our current society and the continuence of Tuvalu, Tuvalu loses.

[??????????]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

I'm not exactly sure that we should change the entire industrial production society of the planet for the sake of the 11,500 residents of Tuvalu. 

I'm sorry, but if I have to make a choice between our current society and the continuence of Tuvalu, Tuvalu loses.

Compassionate conservativism at work I see.

[J. J.]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

I'm not exactly sure that we should change the entire industrial production society of the planet for the sake of the 11,500 residents of Tuvalu. 

I'm sorry, but if I have to make a choice between our current society and the continuence of Tuvalu, Tuvalu loses.

Compassionate conservativism at work I see.

If it were Philadelphia versus the rest of the world, call the moving van!

[A18]

Great news!

[John Dibble]

While I don't believe in global warming to the extent of the doomsday ranters, I am going to have to correct you here - the ice caps aren't just floating pieces of ice, they are actually on landmass.

Because of the VAST continent that covers the North Pole.  Right.

Much of the ice is in the water and over water.  The North Pole area is covered in ice and covers the North Sea for many thousands of square miles.

Well, for one thing there are two ice caps - Antartica is pretty vast if you haven't notice. For second, why the hell are you being rude - be intellectually honest: The ice caps aren't just floating pieces of ice, parts of them do cover land. The ice floating in the ocean melting won't increase the ocean levels - I never once disputed that - but if the ice covering land melts then it will. Simple scientific fact.