The Green Thread: Marijuana in the states

[Person Man]

Is there a reason Issue 2 is an initiated statute instead of a constitutional amendment? Ohio has no rules on legislative tampering, and given the GOP's track record on messing with ballot initiatives, this seems like an obvious problem.

My guess is to see if the legislature will try to touch it and force an amendment during an election year. Basically as something that can be used twice.

[politicallefty]

Is there a reason Issue 2 is an initiated statute instead of a constitutional amendment? Ohio has no rules on legislative tampering, and given the GOP's track record on messing with ballot initiatives, this seems like an obvious problem.

I'm assuming it was the result of the disastrous 2015 legalization proposal (which sought to create a marijuana oligopoly in the state constitution). Amendments also require significantly more signatures, so I think it's a less-preferred option unless absolutely necessary. To be honest though, when it comes to the Ohio GOP, I'm not sure a constitutional amendment would necessarily stop them from tampering. They have total control over the courts now too. Generally speaking though, I think most initiatives on marijuana have been statutes rather than constitutional amendments. From a strict sense of good governance, that makes sense. In the abstract, it makes sense that a legislature should be able to tweak a law as necessary. However, that does presuppose a legislature that respects its citizenry, something that you cannot assume with today's GOP.

This proposal was originally supposed to be done in 2020, but the pandemic obviously seriously inhibited petition drives. I think I already mentioned in this topic that it was supposed to be on the 2022 ballot, but there was a technical issue that resulted in a settlement with the state. So, here it is. Assuming it passes, I think the margin of victory will be relevant as to whether and/or what revisions will be made. A 51-49 victory would put a lot at risk. On the other hand, a 60-40 victory would be a powerful mandate. Ohio does also have a veto referendum process (i.e. people's veto), so any alterations could be put to a vote without resorting to a constitutional amendment. (Keep in mind that veto referendums are structured so that No means the law is vetoed/repealed.)

[politicallefty]

Probably the last poll on this initiative, but I haven't seen a single poll where this is even within 20 points. If that holds, it'd be quite striking. Only Arizona, Maryland, and New Jersey have seen recreational legalization get above 60% (with the latter two getting over 67%).

https://twitter.com/USA_Polling/status/1721677632259936354

[Horus]

I live in a state that doesn't even have medical flower (only oils) and sometimes I forget it's illegal. No one cares anymore.

[MasterJedi]

I live in a state that doesn't even have medical flower (only oils) and sometimes I forget it's illegal. No one cares anymore.

Sadly many do, Wisconsin Republicans like to talk about stopping it coming in from IL but we’re basically surrounded now so nothing they can do.

[Mopsus]

Fun Fact: After tonight, states where marijuana is legal hold a majority in the electoral college.



The American people have spoken.

[MasterJedi]

Allegedly the Ohio GOP says they’ll repeal the legalization in the state legislature.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I live in a state that doesn't even have medical flower (only oils) and sometimes I forget it's illegal. No one cares anymore.

Sadly many do, Wisconsin Republicans like to talk about stopping it coming in from IL but we’re basically surrounded now so nothing they can do.

LOL Rock County decriminalized it making it punishable only by a $1 fine and Dane County obviously doesn't do sh!t about it so you basically have a safe path right there where nothing is done. Kenosha and Racine counties aren't doing much either I hear so there's also a pretty obvious easy path into Milwaukee.

[Nhoj]

I live in a state that doesn't even have medical flower (only oils) and sometimes I forget it's illegal. No one cares anymore.

Sadly many do, Wisconsin Republicans like to talk about stopping it coming in from IL but we’re basically surrounded now so nothing they can do.

LOL Rock County decriminalized it making it punishable only by a $1 fine and Dane County obviously doesn't do sh!t about it so you basically have a safe path right there where nothing is done. Kenosha and Racine counties aren't doing much either I hear so there's also a pretty obvious easy path into Milwaukee.

Even the counties up north barely do anything beyond confiscate and fine. I barely saw any cops either heading in from green bay and heading out from ironwood this week. Perhaps they do random stings when they need to hit their end of the month quota but beyond that its just too many people.  I assume it will be the same when stores open next year in minnesota. Maybe st croix/polk county cops will harrass a few people but most other border counties will do token enforcement.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I live in a state that doesn't even have medical flower (only oils) and sometimes I forget it's illegal. No one cares anymore.

Sadly many do, Wisconsin Republicans like to talk about stopping it coming in from IL but we’re basically surrounded now so nothing they can do.

LOL Rock County decriminalized it making it punishable only by a $1 fine and Dane County obviously doesn't do sh!t about it so you basically have a safe path right there where nothing is done. Kenosha and Racine counties aren't doing much either I hear so there's also a pretty obvious easy path into Milwaukee.

Even the counties up north barely do anything beyond confiscate and fine. I barely saw any cops either heading in from green bay and heading out from ironwood this week. Perhaps they do random stings when they need to hit their end of the month quota but beyond that its just too many people.  I assume it will be the same when stores open next year in minnesota. Maybe st croix/polk county cops will harrass a few people but most other border counties will do token enforcement.

There's a legal store closer to Fargo and Grand Forks than most of the population in Minnesota (Red Lake Reservation) and by most accounts the police just gave up and aren't doing anything. North Dakota has so much violent crime now that the court system is so clogged up anyway they're pretty much ignoring everything else. Not sure if Wisconsin is the same though.

[Badger]

Allegedly the Ohio GOP says they’ll repeal the legalization in the state legislature.

Of course they will. Why wouldn't they? The views of the voters have long cease to matter to them so long as they can still hold on to their Trump era nominal political advantage into a gerrymandered supermajority to do what they want.

[politicallefty]

Allegedly the Ohio GOP says they’ll repeal the legalization in the state legislature.

The voters delivered a decisive result, high turnout (close to the 2022 midterm) and over 57% Yes. Right now, it's in fifth place for highest Yes vote. If the margin nudges up just a little bit, it'll actually surpass California. Talk is talk though. I imagine the legislature would rather make some tweaks to the law than invite a constitutional amendment that puts the issue in stone. I don't think voters would hesitate, especially if it was a backlash to a legislature trying to overturn the will of the people.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Allegedly the Ohio GOP says they’ll repeal the legalization in the state legislature.

Ohio GOP really deciding that shooting themselves in the foot once wasn’t enough and wanted to empty the whole magazine.

[Progressive Pessimist]

OHIGHo, welcome to the club!

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Seeing Pennsylvania as a little red dot in that sea of green is so frustrating. We really let Ohio legalize weed before us.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

Hawaii and New Hampshire stick out like sore thumbs on that map.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Allegedly the Ohio GOP says they’ll repeal the legalization in the state legislature.

They must already be smoking the legal weed

[Virginiá]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/08/florida-supreme-court-appears-favorable-to-pot-legalization-initiative-00126081

During the hourlong arguments, the justices pointedly questioned attorneys representing Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody, who claims the language of the initiative fails to explain that marijuana is still prohibited under federal law.

Justice Charles G. Canady said the proposal was clear.

“Where’s the hidden ball?” Canady said, later adding, “I’m baffled by the argument. Maybe it’s just me.”

Five of the state’s seven Supreme Court justices were appointed by DeSantis, including Chief Justice Carlos G. Muñiz, who also said the ballot language did not misled voters.

Chief Deputy Solicitor General Jeffrey Paul DeSousa argued during Wednesday’s hearing that the amendment also deceived voters by saying it will create new licenses to sell and produce pot for recreational use — on top of allowing what the state calls medical marijuana treatment centers to start selling products to anyone age 21 and over.

Muñiz disagreed, saying the proposed amendment explains to voters that the creation of additional licenses would be left up to the Legislature.

Still not entirely convinced this would pass. Aside from Maryland, I don't think any other marijuana legalization initiative has ever gotten more than 60%, and that is what it would take in Florida.

[hurricanehink]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/08/florida-supreme-court-appears-favorable-to-pot-legalization-initiative-00126081

During the hourlong arguments, the justices pointedly questioned attorneys representing Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody, who claims the language of the initiative fails to explain that marijuana is still prohibited under federal law.

Justice Charles G. Canady said the proposal was clear.

“Where’s the hidden ball?” Canady said, later adding, “I’m baffled by the argument. Maybe it’s just me.”

Five of the state’s seven Supreme Court justices were appointed by DeSantis, including Chief Justice Carlos G. Muñiz, who also said the ballot language did not misled voters.

Chief Deputy Solicitor General Jeffrey Paul DeSousa argued during Wednesday’s hearing that the amendment also deceived voters by saying it will create new licenses to sell and produce pot for recreational use — on top of allowing what the state calls medical marijuana treatment centers to start selling products to anyone age 21 and over.

Muñiz disagreed, saying the proposed amendment explains to voters that the creation of additional licenses would be left up to the Legislature.

Still not entirely convinced this would pass. Aside from Maryland, I don't think any other marijuana legalization initiative has ever gotten more than 60%, and that is what it would take in Florida.

IDK, Florida is a weird mix, but I could totally see a large crossover support from Republicans and democrats, young and old alike. I say that based on my parents, aunts, and cousins who would likely support it (including some proud Trumpers). It would likely do poorly among the elderly, but who knows - maybe all that partying in the Villages has spread some interest in more drugs than just Viagra.

[politicallefty]

Still not entirely convinced this would pass. Aside from Maryland, I don't think any other marijuana legalization initiative has ever gotten more than 60%, and that is what it would take in Florida.

As I mentioned several posts above, there have been three states where recreational legalization has broken 60% (including Maryland). After that, everything else is at least a couple points short. This is everything above 55%:

MD (2022): 67.20%
NJ (2020): 67.08%
AZ (2020): 60.03%
OH (2023): 57.19%
CA (2016): 57.13%
MT (2020): 56.90%
OR (2014): 56.11%
MI (2018) 55.89%
WA (2012): 55.70%
CO (2012): 55.32%

Maryland and New Jersey are unique both in their results and that both initiatives were legislatively-referred.

I do share your view that Florida seems like a very difficult state to get recreational legalization over 60%. We've seen time and time again that age is the top factor in terms of level of support. I think the problem is worse in a state like Florida considering a lot of its senior population comes from other states in the South. The Florida amendment seems to have some serious money behind it, though that can be a double-edged sword sometimes. ("Big Marijuana" can be a boogeyman if they're not careful.) It also seems to have some flaws, but I wonder if that's because of the strict standards regarding single subjects. Some states are a lot stricter on that than others and I do recall Florida being one of them.


Looking at the bigger picture, there aren't many more states where this can be done through the initiative process and some states have had bad results (though that certainly doesn't mean future attempts shouldn't be made):

-Florida: Already mentioned above. Requires 60% supermajority.
-Arkansas: Defeated 43.75%-56.25% in 2022.
-Oklahoma: Defeated 38.33%-61.67% in (March) 2023.
-North Dakota: Defeated 40.55%-59.45% in 2018 and 45.06%-54.94% in 2022.
-South Dakota: Passed 54.18%-45.82% in 2020, but struck down. Defeated 47.08%-52.92% in 2022.
-Nebraska: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet. Attempt is possible in 2024.
-Wyoming: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.
-Idaho: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.
-Utah: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.

The last three states only have initiated statutes at their disposal, which would leave them at the mercy of extremely Republican legislatures. Idaho and Wyoming don't even have medical marijuana. With that said, the list above is all that remains as far as any possible attempt to bypass the legislature. Ohio seems like it was the last of the low-hanging fruit in terms of ballot initiatives. All other states not mentioned above without recreational legalization require action by their state legislatures.

[Person Man]

Still not entirely convinced this would pass. Aside from Maryland, I don't think any other marijuana legalization initiative has ever gotten more than 60%, and that is what it would take in Florida.

As I mentioned several posts above, there have been three states where recreational legalization has broken 60% (including Maryland). After that, everything else is at least a couple points short. This is everything above 55%:

MD (2022): 67.20%
NJ (2020): 67.08%
AZ (2020): 60.03%
CA (2016): 57.13%
OH (2023): 56.97%*
MT (2020): 56.90%
OR (2014): 56.11%
MI (2018) 55.89%
WA (2012): 55.70%
CO (2012): 55.32%

*Results are unofficial and obviously will likely change with the official tally.

Maryland and New Jersey are unique both in their results and that both initiatives were legislatively-referred.

I do share your view that Florida seems like a very difficult state to get recreational legalization over 60%. We've seen time and time again that age is the top factor in terms of level of support. I think the problem is worse in a state like Florida considering a lot of its senior population comes from other states in the South. The Florida amendment seems to have some serious money behind it, though that can be a double-edged sword sometimes. ("Big Marijuana" can be a boogeyman if they're not careful.) It also seems to have some flaws, but I wonder if that's because of the strict standards regarding single subjects. Some states are a lot stricter on that than others and I do recall Florida being one of them.


Looking at the bigger picture, there aren't many more states where this can be done through the initiative process and some states have had bad results (though that certainly doesn't mean future attempts shouldn't be made):

-Florida: Already mentioned above. Requires 60% supermajority.
-Arkansas: Defeated 43.75%-56.25% in 2022.
-Oklahoma: Defeated 38.33%-61.67% in (March) 2023.
-North Dakota: Defeated 40.55%-59.45% in 2018 and 45.06%-54.94% in 2022.
-South Dakota: Passed 54.18%-45.82% in 2020, but struck down. Defeated 47.08%-52.92% in 2022.
-Nebraska: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet. Attempt is possible in 2024.
-Wyoming: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.
-Idaho: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.
-Utah: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.

The last three states only have initiated statutes at their disposal, which would leave them at the mercy of extremely Republican legislatures. Idaho and Wyoming don't even have medical marijuana. With that said, the list above is all that remains as far as any possible attempt to bypass the legislature. Ohio seems like it was the last of the low-hanging fruit in terms of ballot initiatives. All other states not mentioned above without recreational legalization require action by their state legislatures.

I think that the Dakotas will eventually pass it and that Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and Wisconsin will eventually get a D trifecta. Especially with liberal courts and a potential Hump presidency.

[Gass3268]

Still not entirely convinced this would pass. Aside from Maryland, I don't think any other marijuana legalization initiative has ever gotten more than 60%, and that is what it would take in Florida.

As I mentioned several posts above, there have been three states where recreational legalization has broken 60% (including Maryland). After that, everything else is at least a couple points short. This is everything above 55%:

MD (2022): 67.20%
NJ (2020): 67.08%
AZ (2020): 60.03%
CA (2016): 57.13%
OH (2023): 56.97%*
MT (2020): 56.90%
OR (2014): 56.11%
MI (2018) 55.89%
WA (2012): 55.70%
CO (2012): 55.32%

*Results are unofficial and obviously will likely change with the official tally.

Maryland and New Jersey are unique both in their results and that both initiatives were legislatively-referred.

I do share your view that Florida seems like a very difficult state to get recreational legalization over 60%. We've seen time and time again that age is the top factor in terms of level of support. I think the problem is worse in a state like Florida considering a lot of its senior population comes from other states in the South. The Florida amendment seems to have some serious money behind it, though that can be a double-edged sword sometimes. ("Big Marijuana" can be a boogeyman if they're not careful.) It also seems to have some flaws, but I wonder if that's because of the strict standards regarding single subjects. Some states are a lot stricter on that than others and I do recall Florida being one of them.


Looking at the bigger picture, there aren't many more states where this can be done through the initiative process and some states have had bad results (though that certainly doesn't mean future attempts shouldn't be made):

-Florida: Already mentioned above. Requires 60% supermajority.
-Arkansas: Defeated 43.75%-56.25% in 2022.
-Oklahoma: Defeated 38.33%-61.67% in (March) 2023.
-North Dakota: Defeated 40.55%-59.45% in 2018 and 45.06%-54.94% in 2022.
-South Dakota: Passed 54.18%-45.82% in 2020, but struck down. Defeated 47.08%-52.92% in 2022.
-Nebraska: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet. Attempt is possible in 2024.
-Wyoming: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.
-Idaho: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.
-Utah: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.

The last three states only have initiated statutes at their disposal, which would leave them at the mercy of extremely Republican legislatures. Idaho and Wyoming don't even have medical marijuana. With that said, the list above is all that remains as far as any possible attempt to bypass the legislature. Ohio seems like it was the last of the low-hanging fruit in terms of ballot initiatives. All other states not mentioned above without recreational legalization require action by their state legislatures.

I think that the Dakotas will eventually pass it and that Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and Wisconsin will eventually get a D trifecta. Especially with liberal courts and a potential Hump presidency.

I would love for someone to challenge marijuana prohibition in Wisconsin to the state Supreme Court.

[Person Man]

Still not entirely convinced this would pass. Aside from Maryland, I don't think any other marijuana legalization initiative has ever gotten more than 60%, and that is what it would take in Florida.

As I mentioned several posts above, there have been three states where recreational legalization has broken 60% (including Maryland). After that, everything else is at least a couple points short. This is everything above 55%:

MD (2022): 67.20%
NJ (2020): 67.08%
AZ (2020): 60.03%
CA (2016): 57.13%
OH (2023): 56.97%*
MT (2020): 56.90%
OR (2014): 56.11%
MI (2018) 55.89%
WA (2012): 55.70%
CO (2012): 55.32%

*Results are unofficial and obviously will likely change with the official tally.

Maryland and New Jersey are unique both in their results and that both initiatives were legislatively-referred.

I do share your view that Florida seems like a very difficult state to get recreational legalization over 60%. We've seen time and time again that age is the top factor in terms of level of support. I think the problem is worse in a state like Florida considering a lot of its senior population comes from other states in the South. The Florida amendment seems to have some serious money behind it, though that can be a double-edged sword sometimes. ("Big Marijuana" can be a boogeyman if they're not careful.) It also seems to have some flaws, but I wonder if that's because of the strict standards regarding single subjects. Some states are a lot stricter on that than others and I do recall Florida being one of them.


Looking at the bigger picture, there aren't many more states where this can be done through the initiative process and some states have had bad results (though that certainly doesn't mean future attempts shouldn't be made):

-Florida: Already mentioned above. Requires 60% supermajority.
-Arkansas: Defeated 43.75%-56.25% in 2022.
-Oklahoma: Defeated 38.33%-61.67% in (March) 2023.
-North Dakota: Defeated 40.55%-59.45% in 2018 and 45.06%-54.94% in 2022.
-South Dakota: Passed 54.18%-45.82% in 2020, but struck down. Defeated 47.08%-52.92% in 2022.
-Nebraska: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet. Attempt is possible in 2024.
-Wyoming: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.
-Idaho: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.
-Utah: No initiative has reached the ballot as of yet.

The last three states only have initiated statutes at their disposal, which would leave them at the mercy of extremely Republican legislatures. Idaho and Wyoming don't even have medical marijuana. With that said, the list above is all that remains as far as any possible attempt to bypass the legislature. Ohio seems like it was the last of the low-hanging fruit in terms of ballot initiatives. All other states not mentioned above without recreational legalization require action by their state legislatures.

I think that the Dakotas will eventually pass it and that Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and Wisconsin will eventually get a D trifecta. Especially with liberal courts and a potential Hump presidency.

I would love for someone to challenge marijuana prohibition in Wisconsin to the state Supreme Court.

Or that the gerrymander will be broken and Democrats will get a trifecta in a Trump midterm.

[politicallefty]

With the results now certified and 57.19% voting Yes, Ohio has officially taken the number four spot away from California in terms of the overall results. I imagine it probably would have done even better in an even year (especially a presidential year). It passed in 42/88 counties, with two counties flipping to Yes when the vote was certified. (I modified my above post listing the states and results.)

The OH Senate wanted to gut the bill (reducing possession from 2.5 ounces to 1 ounce, eliminating home grow, and tripling the tax, among other things), but there was apparently enough of a backlash that they severely reversed course. No bill has passed the legislature yet, but it looks the only significant modifications will be as to where the tax revenue goes (along with a more modest tax increase). According to this article, the Governor wants to speed up when recreational sales can start. Most surprising is that they added a provision for automatic expungement, something that wasn't even in the ballot initiative.

[dead0man]

I thought we had a thread just on NY state's troubles, but maybe not, this will do.

Reason

The Times story, which opens with the stark numerical contrast between those two categories of marijuana suppliers, later takes a stab at a more positive spin: "New York now has more licensed recreational dispensaries than any state on the East Coast except Massachusetts." But even that is not true.

Maine, where voters approved legalization in 2016, has 139 recreational dispensaries, serving a population less than a tenth as big as New York's. New Jersey, with a population less than half as big as New York's, has 101 recreational dispensaries two years after legal sales began.

Connecticut, which legalized recreational marijuana the same year as New York, has 28 dispensaries serving that market—nearly twice as many per capita. Maryland, which legalized marijuana in 2022, has 101 dispensaries that serve recreational consumers as well as patients. Maryland's population is less than one-third the size of New York's. Even tiny Rhode Island—which has a population one-twentieth as big as New York's, legalized marijuana a year later, and has just half a dozen recreational dispensaries—still has more per capita.

New York's population is almost three times as big as the population of Massachusetts,  where legal recreational sales began in November 2018. Massachusetts has nearly 400 licensed dispensaries. That's roughly six authorized retailers per 100,000 residents, compared to about 0.4 per 100,000 in New York.

If you consider the situation in other regions of the country, New York's pitiful number of licensed dispensaries looks even worse. Colorado, where the first recreational outlets opened in 2014, now has 670, or about 11 per 100,000 residents. Oregon, where legal recreational sales began the same year, has more than 800 licensed outlets, about 19 per 100,000 Oregonians.

Both of those states, of course, had a jump on New York, approving legalization in 2012 and 2014, respectively. But New Mexico legalized recreational marijuana the same year as New York, and it has more than 1,000 dispensaries, serving a population one-tenth as big as New York's.

Any way you cut it, New York has done a terrible job of getting licensed dispensaries up and running.

why is it so hard to understand that excessive taxes, regulations and "equity" are bad for, well, everyone and everything?