So... where do we, as a country, go from here?

[Green Line]

We need a constitution convention to save the country.  We need a new political system.  We need something fresh, badly.  The current government is rotting.  We need a strong legislature w/ an advisory senate.  Our system is destroying us. No more national elections every freaking 2 years.  Country cant take it.

[GlobeSoc]

Well, a lot of  people like what Trump is doing. Its just the most of left that doesn't. But I believe another civil war is going to happen with-in the next 50 years.

Well, that isn't going to work out well. How are these cocoa drinking snowflakes going to fight real men with guns, including our excellent police and military?

Give it some time and partisan fear will make the democrats even in gun ownership and ability relative to republicans. You are assuming that we will always not be armed.

[pbrower2a]

-Constant protests
-Threats of martial law
-Alienation from the President towards half of the nation (+/-)
-White nationalism gaining ground in some political wings
-No checks on the current President because of party line decision making
-Decreased standing with the international community
-An outstanding lack of transparency from the current administration

None of these are problems other than the protests, which I hope Trump will take care of.

As Nicolae Ceausescu did? bad idea. Really bad idea. 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yeah, yeah. The right of every alienated nut getting a firearm no matter how many people die because that nut chooses to imitate Charles Whitman is sacrosanct, right? Children's lives are more important than the right of loners with mental problems to have their own arsenals.

[Confused Democrat]

Honestly what Trump is planning to do with the full support of the Congress Republicans is sick.  Approving two pipelines that the entire environmental movement and Native Americans all around the country oppose, threats to bring the feds to Chicago, gutting healthcare for a lot of people, building a wall on the border with a friendly neighbor country.  This is all crazy stuff, and I feel that the end of the United States as a country is near.

Is this parody? Other than the Chicago thing which wont happen because its illegal every other position you mentioned is within the political mainstream even if you dont agree with the policy itself. We already have pipelines. We already have barricades on the border. Obama certainly gutted a lot of already insured people's healthcare. The Mexico city policy has flipped 4 times since Reagan. Sometimes other people's opinions prevail over your own.

Mr. Reactionary is right. It's important to remember many of Trump's disgusting and unethical policies are in fact pillars of the Republican platform and have been for decades.

Exactly. This shouldn't be uniquely traumatic for the left.

In case you didn't get it, publicunofficial was accusing Republicans of being disgusting and unethical.

They are. Im not a republican. I dont like them or Trump. I just dont like the blatant dishonesty of the other side either. Trump is most likely going to be a sh**tty president. Every president since ive been alive has been sh**tty. This is not some uniquely apocalyptic situation. Its just typical hackery from both sides. Its 2009 - 2011 with the parties flipped. GOP will unfairly ram stuff through and the Dems will unfairly pretend that doing so is dictatorial.

Is this really comparable to 2009-2011? I was still too young when Obama was first elected to be paying close attention to politics, but this presidency feels exceptionally different in that I truly believe there is a real potential for catastrophic disaster as opposed to when Obama was first elected. Trump is a uniquely terrifying President, and here's a few reasons why:

- No diplomatic or governmental experience.
- No depth of policy knowledge
- Short tempered and easily provoked
- Either extremely gullible or a bold faced liar (maybe both)

These are just the ones I can list off the top of my head, but can you name me a modern president that possessed all of these traits? He's already picking fights with Mexico and China. He's claiming that 3-5 million people voted illegally in the 2016 presidential election. He's playing coy with the prospect of torture. He's putting gag orders on government agencies. He's obsessing over crowd sizes and tv ratings. He's threatening to send the Feds to inner cities. He's being, I believe, overly hostile towards the press. This is not normal behavior.

I hope to god that I'm wrong, but I just don't think you can compare Trump to any other modern president. He is totally unqualified for this job, and I think that's a dangerous thing.

[Xing]

There's not much those of us on the left can do, other than stand our ground and remain in opposition to Trump. Things are going to be ugly for a while, but if even 5-10% of his supporters start to have second thoughts about him, Republicans and him are going to be in for a world of hurt.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Honestly what Trump is planning to do with the full support of the Congress Republicans is sick.  Approving two pipelines that the entire environmental movement and Native Americans all around the country oppose, threats to bring the feds to Chicago, gutting healthcare for a lot of people, building a wall on the border with a friendly neighbor country.  This is all crazy stuff, and I feel that the end of the United States as a country is near.

Is this parody? Other than the Chicago thing which wont happen because its illegal every other position you mentioned is within the political mainstream even if you dont agree with the policy itself. We already have pipelines. We already have barricades on the border. Obama certainly gutted a lot of already insured people's healthcare. The Mexico city policy has flipped 4 times since Reagan. Sometimes other people's opinions prevail over your own.

Mr. Reactionary is right. It's important to remember many of Trump's disgusting and unethical policies are in fact pillars of the Republican platform and have been for decades.

Exactly. This shouldn't be uniquely traumatic for the left.

In case you didn't get it, publicunofficial was accusing Republicans of being disgusting and unethical.

They are. Im not a republican. I dont like them or Trump. I just dont like the blatant dishonesty of the other side either. Trump is most likely going to be a sh**tty president. Every president since ive been alive has been sh**tty. This is not some uniquely apocalyptic situation. Its just typical hackery from both sides. Its 2009 - 2011 with the parties flipped. GOP will unfairly ram stuff through and the Dems will unfairly pretend that doing so is dictatorial.

Is this really comparable to 2009-2011? I was still too young when Obama was first elected to be paying close attention to politics, but this presidency feels exceptionally different in that I truly believe there is a real potential for catastrophic disaster as opposed to when Obama was first elected. Trump is a uniquely terrifying President, and here's a few reasons why:

- No diplomatic or governmental experience.
- No depth of policy knowledge
- Short tempered and easily provoked
- Either extremely gullible or a bold faced liar (maybe both)

These are just the ones I can list off the top of my head, but can you name me a modern president that possessed all of these traits? He's already picking fights with Mexico and China. He's claiming that 3-5 million people voted illegally in the 2016 presidential election. He's playing coy with the prospect of torture. He's putting gag orders on government agencies. He's obsessing over crowd sizes and tv ratings. He's threatening to send the Feds to inner cities. He's being, I believe, overly hostile towards the press. This is not normal behavior.

I hope to god that I'm wrong, but I just don't think you can compare Trump to any other modern president. He is totally unqualified for this job, and I think that's a dangerous thing.

After 2008 pubs thought Obama would suspend the constitution and put people in fema camps for praying. He was going to take our guns, destroy free enterprise, ramp up spying, and institute a dictatorship. Google "gather your armies ad". 2009 and 2010 was heavy heavy heavy into apocalyptic rhetoric on the right. As someone who encountered this and later rejected these views, let me tell you this is the same thing in reverse. If your only evidence is that you dislike the politician and politician "seems" bad or dangerous or unstable or inexperienced or godless or fake, then odds are its just typical partisan fears. Im not saying you shouldn't be upset; the past 8 years upset me, but our system will survive. Its survived worse than a balding egotist with small hands. Hell, I'm only 25 and Trump isnt even the 1st probable rapist president in my lifetime. Between the internet and the constitution there will be no dictatorship.

[Green Line]

There's not much those of us on the left can do, other than stand our ground and remain in opposition to Trump. Things are going to be ugly for a while, but if even 5-10% of his supporters start to have second thoughts about him, Republicans and him are going to be in for a world of hurt.

If your attitude is that the left is angels and you just need to wait this out, you're in for a long wait.  Some soul searching is needed from everyone.

[publicunofficial]

Honestly what Trump is planning to do with the full support of the Congress Republicans is sick.  Approving two pipelines that the entire environmental movement and Native Americans all around the country oppose, threats to bring the feds to Chicago, gutting healthcare for a lot of people, building a wall on the border with a friendly neighbor country.  This is all crazy stuff, and I feel that the end of the United States as a country is near.

Is this parody? Other than the Chicago thing which wont happen because its illegal every other position you mentioned is within the political mainstream even if you dont agree with the policy itself. We already have pipelines. We already have barricades on the border. Obama certainly gutted a lot of already insured people's healthcare. The Mexico city policy has flipped 4 times since Reagan. Sometimes other people's opinions prevail over your own.

Mr. Reactionary is right. It's important to remember many of Trump's disgusting and unethical policies are in fact pillars of the Republican platform and have been for decades.

Exactly. This shouldn't be uniquely traumatic for the left.

In case you didn't get it, publicunofficial was accusing Republicans of being disgusting and unethical.

They are. Im not a republican. I dont like them or Trump. I just dont like the blatant dishonesty of the other side either. Trump is most likely going to be a sh**tty president. Every president since ive been alive has been sh**tty. This is not some uniquely apocalyptic situation. Its just typical hackery from both sides. Its 2009 - 2011 with the parties flipped. GOP will unfairly ram stuff through and the Dems will unfairly pretend that doing so is dictatorial.

Is this really comparable to 2009-2011? I was still too young when Obama was first elected to be paying close attention to politics, but this presidency feels exceptionally different in that I truly believe there is a real potential for catastrophic disaster as opposed to when Obama was first elected. Trump is a uniquely terrifying President, and here's a few reasons why:

- No diplomatic or governmental experience.
- No depth of policy knowledge
- Short tempered and easily provoked
- Either extremely gullible or a bold faced liar (maybe both)

These are just the ones I can list off the top of my head, but can you name me a modern president that possessed all of these traits? He's already picking fights with Mexico and China. He's claiming that 3-5 million people voted illegally in the 2016 presidential election. He's playing coy with the prospect of torture. He's putting gag orders on government agencies. He's obsessing over crowd sizes and tv ratings. He's threatening to send the Feds to inner cities. He's being, I believe, overly hostile towards the press. This is not normal behavior.

I hope to god that I'm wrong, but I just don't think you can compare Trump to any other modern president. He is totally unqualified for this job, and I think that's a dangerous thing.

After 2008 pubs thought Obama would suspend the constitution and put people in fema camps for praying. He was going to take our guns, destroy free enterprise, ramp up spying, and institute a dictatorship. Google "gather your armies ad". 2009 and 2010 was heavy heavy heavy into apocalyptic rhetoric on the right. As someone who encountered this and later rejected these views, let me tell you this is the same thing in reverse. If your only evidence is that you dislike the politician and politician "seems" bad or dangerous or unstable or inexperienced or godless or fake, then odds are its just typical partisan fears. Im not saying you shouldn't be upset; the past 8 years upset me, but our system will survive. Its survived worse than a balding egotist with small hands. Hell, I'm only 25 and Trump isnt even the 1st probable rapist president in my lifetime. Between the internet and the constitution there will be no dictatorship.

When the right thought Obama was going to put people in FEMA camps, it was based off of pure conspiracy theory.

When the left thinks Trump is going to threaten the press or go after classes of people he doesn't like, it's because Trump gives interviews and speeches where he literally says he is going to do those things.

Don't pretend it's the same.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Well, a lot of  people like what Trump is doing. Its just the most of left that doesn't. But I believe another civil war is going to happen with-in the next 50 years.

Well, that isn't going to work out well. How are these cocoa drinking snowflakes going to fight real men with guns, including our excellent police and military?

Is that you?

[Xing]

There's not much those of us on the left can do, other than stand our ground and remain in opposition to Trump. Things are going to be ugly for a while, but if even 5-10% of his supporters start to have second thoughts about him, Republicans and him are going to be in for a world of hurt.

If your attitude is that the left is angels and you just need to wait this out, you're in for a long wait.  Some soul searching is needed from everyone.

I never said that everyone on the left is an angel. And yes, it is going to be a long wait.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Honestly what Trump is planning to do with the full support of the Congress Republicans is sick.  Approving two pipelines that the entire environmental movement and Native Americans all around the country oppose, threats to bring the feds to Chicago, gutting healthcare for a lot of people, building a wall on the border with a friendly neighbor country.  This is all crazy stuff, and I feel that the end of the United States as a country is near.

Is this parody? Other than the Chicago thing which wont happen because its illegal every other position you mentioned is within the political mainstream even if you dont agree with the policy itself. We already have pipelines. We already have barricades on the border. Obama certainly gutted a lot of already insured people's healthcare. The Mexico city policy has flipped 4 times since Reagan. Sometimes other people's opinions prevail over your own.

Mr. Reactionary is right. It's important to remember many of Trump's disgusting and unethical policies are in fact pillars of the Republican platform and have been for decades.

Exactly. This shouldn't be uniquely traumatic for the left.

In case you didn't get it, publicunofficial was accusing Republicans of being disgusting and unethical.

They are. Im not a republican. I dont like them or Trump. I just dont like the blatant dishonesty of the other side either. Trump is most likely going to be a sh**tty president. Every president since ive been alive has been sh**tty. This is not some uniquely apocalyptic situation. Its just typical hackery from both sides. Its 2009 - 2011 with the parties flipped. GOP will unfairly ram stuff through and the Dems will unfairly pretend that doing so is dictatorial.

Is this really comparable to 2009-2011? I was still too young when Obama was first elected to be paying close attention to politics, but this presidency feels exceptionally different in that I truly believe there is a real potential for catastrophic disaster as opposed to when Obama was first elected. Trump is a uniquely terrifying President, and here's a few reasons why:

- No diplomatic or governmental experience.
- No depth of policy knowledge
- Short tempered and easily provoked
- Either extremely gullible or a bold faced liar (maybe both)

These are just the ones I can list off the top of my head, but can you name me a modern president that possessed all of these traits? He's already picking fights with Mexico and China. He's claiming that 3-5 million people voted illegally in the 2016 presidential election. He's playing coy with the prospect of torture. He's putting gag orders on government agencies. He's obsessing over crowd sizes and tv ratings. He's threatening to send the Feds to inner cities. He's being, I believe, overly hostile towards the press. This is not normal behavior.

I hope to god that I'm wrong, but I just don't think you can compare Trump to any other modern president. He is totally unqualified for this job, and I think that's a dangerous thing.

-He took on the establishment and won. Ergo, he's totally qualified for this job.

Barack Obama was hostile to Fox News (the only press that opposed him). Bush actually tortured. Gag orders are remarkably common. Bush I sent Marines into LA. Hillary stupidly picked a fight with Russia before she even came into office.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

We need a constitution convention to save the country.  We need a new political system.  We need something fresh, badly.  The current government is rotting.  We need a strong legislature w/ an advisory senate.  Our system is destroying us. No more national elections every freaking 2 years.  Country cant take it.

You mean a parliamentary system?  That would be worth considering.

[Lincoln Republican]

Has anyone ever heard of Chicken Little?

You know.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Methinks the leftists protesteth too much.

Fear not.  All will be well. 

[Meclazine for Israel]

This is a serious question. Confidence in our system has been absolutely eroded. One side looks at the popular vote:EV discrepancy and sees injustice. The winner from the other side constantly delegitimizes the election that he won.

Journalistic integrity and confidence are at an all time low; furthermore, with terms like "alternative facts" making their way into the political sphere du jour, dialogue has pretty much ceased. There are:

- New jobs
- Business opportunity
- Immigration reform
- Less political red tape
- More business investment
- Alec Baldwin
- A magnificent wall.

So, as someone who is deeply concerned, I am asking everyone, what do we do? How do you see this working out? What kind of long term effects are we looking at?

FIFY.

[Anti-Bothsidesism]

This is the sort of political leader who gets overthrown in a military coup in many countries.

[Agonized-Statism]

Like many here, pro- and anti-Trump, I overestimated the global nationalist/populist wave. Looks like the status quo from here. Continuing slow motion U.S. decline militarily and economically, while maintaining current Middle East presence. Small boost when the Russian government collapses and we're able to steal some of their capital again.

[Kingpoleon]

We have to calm down and settle about. This kind of rhetoric is very damaging to Democrats because Americans don’t like pessimism.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Like many here, pro- and anti-Trump, I overestimated the global nationalist/populist wave. Looks like the status quo from here. Continuing slow motion U.S. decline militarily and economically, while maintaining current Middle East presence. Small boost when the Russian government collapses and we're able to steal some of their capital again.

Don't be so sure we're on that course. Rapid change doesn't need to be instant. Get back to me in late 2023 and we'll see if our trajectory from 2017 has been up, down or mostly flat.

And lets not forget global warming. Climate change isn't going away, it's going to get worse, which will drive large-scale political instability.

As for Russia collapsing... it's certainly possible. China collapsing is possible too. I'm guessing the PRC government's credibility depends in large part on their successful economic foundation. If that goes, then the ball is up in the air.

[ProudModerate2]

Honestly what Trump is planning to do with the full support of the Congress Republicans is sick.  Approving two pipelines that the entire environmental movement and Native Americans all around the country oppose, threats to bring the feds to Chicago, gutting healthcare for a lot of people, building a wall on the border with a friendly neighbor country.  This is all crazy stuff, and I feel that the end of the United States as a country is near.

Is this parody? Other than the Chicago thing which wont happen because its illegal every other position you mentioned is within the political mainstream even if you dont agree with the policy itself. We already have pipelines. We already have barricades on the border. Obama certainly gutted a lot of already insured people's healthcare. The Mexico city policy has flipped 4 times since Reagan. Sometimes other people's opinions prevail over your own.

Mr. Reactionary is right. It's important to remember many of Trump's disgusting and unethical policies are in fact pillars of the Republican platform and have been for decades.

Exactly. This shouldn't be uniquely traumatic for the left.

In case you didn't get it, publicunofficial was accusing Republicans of being disgusting and unethical.

They are. Im not a republican. I dont like them or Trump. I just dont like the blatant dishonesty of the other side either. Trump is most likely going to be a sh**tty president. Every president since ive been alive has been sh**tty. This is not some uniquely apocalyptic situation. Its just typical hackery from both sides. Its 2009 - 2011 with the parties flipped. GOP will unfairly ram stuff through and the Dems will unfairly pretend that doing so is dictatorial.

"trump is going to be a sh**ty president" ? ? ?
going to be ? .....

[ProudModerate2]

... Things are going to be ugly for a while, but if even 5-10% of his supporters start to have second thoughts about him, Republicans and him are going to be in for a world of hurt.

I agree with this about the 2020 presidential election (though I have concerns if the Dem party selects someone that is "too far left").
In The House, I fell the same, where trump hurts Republicans running (Dems hold The House).
But it seems that Senate races are more immune to all the craziness that trump and the GOP have brought to our nation.

[T'Chenka]

As long as these states are willing to adopt Canadian politics - universal healthcare, gun control and multiculturalism - we are willing to adopt several states and tens of millions of Americans when your nation starts seriously nosediving.

We are willing to adopt the west coast (Washington, Oregon, California) and everything north and east of New York (Maine, Massachusetts, Vermot, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New York itself). We would possibly be open to taking the Great Lakes area (Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania), but I'm not sure that those states are liberal enough to want to become Canadian.

[Dr. Arch]

As long as these states are willing to adopt Canadian politics - universal healthcare, gun control and multiculturalism - we are willing to adopt several states and tens of millions of Americans when your nation starts seriously nosediving.

We are willing to adopt the west coast (Washington, Oregon, California) and everything north and east of New York (Maine, Massachusetts, Vermot, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New York itself). We would possibly be open to taking the Great Lakes area (Minnesota, Utah, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania), but I'm not sure that those states are liberal enough to want to become Canadian.

I think you meant Iowa instead of Utah, but yeah, no. MN might be the only one out of those.

[T'Chenka]

As long as these states are willing to adopt Canadian politics - universal healthcare, gun control and multiculturalism - we are willing to adopt several states and tens of millions of Americans when your nation starts seriously nosediving.

We are willing to adopt the west coast (Washington, Oregon, California) and everything north and east of New York (Maine, Massachusetts, Vermot, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New York itself). We would possibly be open to taking the Great Lakes area (Minnesota, Utah, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania), but I'm not sure that those states are liberal enough to want to become Canadian.

I think you meant Iowa instead of Utah, but yeah, no. MN might be the only one out of those.

Yes I did. Cringe-tastic. I knew it was the square state just south of Minnesota, and that it has a two syllable name ending in the sound "ah", but I brain-farted the name.

[Koharu]

"trump is going to be a sh**ty president" ? ? ?
going to be ? .....

This was from January 2017, nearly 3 years ago at this point. Not sure why this thread was pulled from the depths.

[pbrower2a]

This is a serious question. Confidence in our system has been absolutely eroded. One side looks at the popular vote:EV discrepancy and sees injustice. The winner from the other side constantly delegitimizes the election that he won.

Journalistic integrity and confidence are at an all time low; furthermore, with terms like "alternative facts" making their way into the political sphere du jour, dialogue has pretty much ceased. There are:

-Constant protests
-Threats of martial law
-Alienation from the President towards half of the nation (+/-)
-White nationalism gaining ground in some political wings
-No checks on the current President because of party line decision making
-Decreased standing with the international community
-An outstanding lack of transparency from the current administration

So, as someone who is deeply concerned, I am asking everyone, what do we do? How do you see this working out? What kind of long term effects are we looking at?

If impeachment (practically certain) does not result in removal from office, then the most obvious solution is the 2020 election. Should the trial proceed with a curt rejection, then Republicans can sweat the consequences in 2020 and to a lesser extent 2022 and 2024.

Any threat of martial law as a means of suppressing dissent is without Constitutional validity.  Martial law applies to a clear and present danger, and it applies to civilian populations in the aftermath (most frequently) of natural disasters such as storms, fires, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions. A President out of control of the situation? He might as well resign and leave the task to someone else.

Nobody is going to get everything he wants in a democracy, and this is something that we will just have to live with. Benefits come with burdens.

White nationalism? We cannot say that Barack Obama provoked it. If a majority of voters, or even a plurality of voters, vote for someone who doesn't look like them -- tough. All 'racial' minorities have felt that experience at.  It is best that race and ethnicity not be foci of politics. White nationalism is just another scummy idea that can get people killed -- and has.

We have a President acting despotically or dictatorially (take your pick), and it is up to voters to reject any candidate who shows  tendencies in that direction. Too vituperative? Contemptuous of large parts of the population that have done nothing wrong? Seeming not to understand such concepts as due process, rule of law, and separation of powers? Lacking basic decency as a person?

Nobody should be President who has bragged about grabbing women by their "kitty-cats" (such behavior is criminal sexual conduct in some states) or being able to murder people and get away with it. Nobody should get away with disparaging any ethnic group, with lying (as opposed to being wrong), or stiffing subcontractors.

Democracy implies that people have the duty to choose between alternatives, and that when one of the alternatives shows horrible character, then the electorate must reject that person.

We have been getting a harsh lesson in civics, one in which the consequences of voting for an extremist devoid of a moral compass are in plain sight. Yes, character matters more than desired results.