American citizens: where do you stand on Israel?

[Devout Centrist]

I am solidly pro-Israel and support its existence wholeheartedly.

Two states. If it isn't two states, Israel will devolve into a system of apartheid should they annex Gaza and West Bank, as these two territories will never be fully integrated into Israel without ethnic cleansing or a miraculous end to decades of hostility.

I suspect Likud and its allies would have to establish an authoritarian state to actually annex both. Netanyahu hasn't the guts to either stop settlement expansion or just annex the areas. What a spineless political coward. Makes you wish you could resurrect Golda Meir and Yitzhak Rabin or at least a leader with the will to do something.

[Frodo]

I am solidly pro-Israel and support its existence wholeheartedly.

Two states. If it isn't two states, Israel will devolve into a system of apartheid should they annex Gaza and West Bank, as these two territories will never be fully integrated into Israel without ethnic cleansing or a miraculous end to decades of hostility.

I suspect Likud and its allies would have to establish an authoritarian state to actually annex both. Netanyahu hasn't the guts to either stop settlement expansion or just annex the areas. What a spineless political coward. Makes you wish you could resurrect Golda Meir and Yitzhak Rabin or at least a leader with the will to do something.

I wonder where we would be today had Yitzhak Rabin not been assassinated. 

[Crumpets]

At this point, I basically have no personal opinion on what "should" happen in Israel. I think the main strategy should basically be one of stabilization and reconciliation. I think the end result of some kind of détente would probably look more like option 3 than option 1 - maybe it's just the American in me who will continue to beat the dead horse of "yay pluralism and multiculturalism" until I go mad. But at this point, any potential peace is so far off in the future that it's impossible to know for sure what it'll look like.

[Fusionmunster]

Israel needs to exist to protect the Jewish people. If that entails it being a Jewish State, so be it. However, I also see the need for a Palestinian state. A two state solution is probably impossible with the current borders. I also don't think Gaza could make it on its own as an independent nation so it really is quite a quandary on how the peace process proceeds from here.

[DavidB.]

Obviously maintaining Israel's Jewish character while keeping control over as much of Eretz Yisrael as possible is the most important of all.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The region should form a confederation of neutral states.

[brucejoel99]

2-state solution where Israel has a right to exist in security, & at the same time the Palestinians have a state of their own.

I believe that Israel & the Palestinians can, & should, peacefully co-exist, & that Palestinians should have a country of their own.

DISCLAIMER: I personally am Jewish, but I don't favor Israel over the Palestinians, nor do I otherwise let my religion influence my position regarding the conflict.

[The Other Castro]

I'm Jewish, and I'll side with Israel over Palestine in extreme situations, but most importantly I'm in favor of a solution that leads to lasting peace. I think there needs to be some kind of place Palestinians can call home for that to happen. I think settlement development hurts the peace process, or whatever little there is. Jerusalem should be officially considered a part of Israel, but with a form of access available to Palestinians without going so far as joint control.

[Tintrlvr]

I reject the presumption of two states as essential or even desirable. I support Israel as a democracy but not as an explicitly Jewish state (i.e., written into law or otherwise with a thumb on the scale in favor of Judaism over other religions/non-religion).

[The Other Castro]

Here's how "The West Wing" dealt with Jerusalem:

KATE
After the Six-day War, the Israelis offered to give the U.N. diplomatic
status and immunities in the holy sights in Jerusalem.

WILL
So?

KATE
So if they were willing to do it in '67, why not now? They give the Muslim
holy sights the status of diplomatic missions. The Israelis can keep all
the sovereignty the want, they still can't enter without permission from
the Palestinians.

BARTLET
So the Palestinians would have a sovereign-like state that was inviolable
like a foreign embassy.

KATE
The Palestinians'll love it because it gives them the same custodial status
over the Haram like the Saudis have over sights like Mecca and Medina. There's
only one catch. When the Israelis offered it the first time they wanted
peacekeepers as part of the deal, in Jerusalem and throughout the West Bank.

ABBEY
The U.N. will cough up peacekeepers if it will solve the Middle-East crisis.

TOBY
It can't be the U.N. U.N. peacekeepers have no credibility with the
Israelis. They let Egypt attack Israel through the Sinai in '67. It's going
to have to be us.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Even assuming the West Wing has its facts correct, this ain't 1967.  Back then Israel was still shocked at how well it did and hadn't yet built up its myth of eternal supremacy over its neighbors. It also hadn't placed hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants into the West Bank.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why is Israel accused of occupying gaza and West Bank . They were attacked 6 times and won a those wars and got that land in part of the agreement in ending the wars . So that is Israel land since they won the war .

[Crumpets]

Why is Israel accused of occupying gaza and West Bank . They were attacked 6 times and won a those wars and got that land in part of the agreement in ending the wars . So that is Israel land since they won the war .

A major part of the reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

Also, I don't think Israel is still accused of "occupying" Gaza, at least in the way they are accused of occupying the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why is Israel accused of occupying gaza and West Bank . They were attacked 6 times and won a those wars and got that land in part of the agreement in ending the wars . So that is Israel land since they won the war .

A major part of the reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

Also, I don't think Israel is still accused of "occupying" Gaza, at least in the way they are accused of occupying the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

Since it was before the 73 war it doesn't count as the defeat of Israel enemies changes the earlier agreement .

[America Needs R'hllor]

Why is Israel accused of occupying gaza and West Bank . They were attacked 6 times and won a those wars and got that land in part of the agreement in ending the wars . So that is Israel land since they won the war .

A major part of the reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

Also, I don't think Israel is still accused of "occupying" Gaza, at least in the way they are accused of occupying the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

Accusing Israel of occupying the Goland Heights is laughable, really, and shows a very ugly double standard, as if there're no countries currently holding lands which once belonged to another country that lost a war (hint: most of Europe). We won the war. We took it. The people there don't want to be part of Syria anymore (unline the West Bank, that wants independence). Done.

[Potus]

The two state solution is outdated. Large majorities of Palestinians believe terrorism against Israel is acceptable. The violence isnt about settlements or borders. The people stabbing Jews and blowing themselves up to kill Jews and fire rockets into Israel to kill Jews, they aren't really motivated by the settlements. Not motivated by want for statehood. The bottom line is they really don't like Jewish people and think they should leave or die. Even the political Palestinians, who try to treat the Temple Mount like it's not part of Israel, know this. They just dog whistle about "1967 borders" because they Israel will never cooperate. It would be very damaging to their authority to actually cement the existence of Israel in an agreement.

Israel is a Jewish nation. Israel will not be safe with a UN-backed Palestinian terror-state on its borders that would no support and abet the anti-Semitic scum of the earth within their new country.

[Shadows]

Why is Israel accused of occupying gaza and West Bank . They were attacked 6 times and won a those wars and got that land in part of the agreement in ending the wars . So that is Israel land since they won the war .

Gaza is under Hamas, although I don't know if Israel still has siege around it.

West bank Israeli occupation is illegal by international standards. After the 6 day war in 67 odd,  The International community revised the earlier border of 47 (where Israel had lesser land area) & divided the area in a way such that only Gaza & West Bank was for Palestine & the rest was for Israel.

So any Israeli settlement of West Bank is illegal as the international community recognizes that land as a future Palestine state (PLO is an observer kind of thing in UN). This idea that you can fight in wars & annex & that part becomes yours is medieval. Any country can annex any part then. The West Bank is the last hope for a future Palestine state.

West Bank is still largely composed of Palestine people - Do you kill millions of Palestine people similar to the Holocaust because there is no way these people can live within Israel & neither will everyone abandon their homeland & flee (many millions have already fled as refugees anyways). This conflict will only blow up. We had 2 Intifadas, we are just sitting on the cusp of a 3rd more horrible one.

This is a Vox video about about the basics of the  Israel-Palestine conflict - But it is sad how moderate Israeli leaders have also been murdered by their own people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYZjOuUnlU&t=8s

[FairBol]

The two state solution is outdated. Large majorities of Palestinians believe terrorism against Israel is acceptable. The violence isnt about settlements or borders. The people stabbing Jews and blowing themselves up to kill Jews and fire rockets into Israel to kill Jews, they aren't really motivated by the settlements. Not motivated by want for statehood. The bottom line is they really don't like Jewish people and think they should leave or die. Even the political Palestinians, who try to treat the Temple Mount like it's not part of Israel, know this. They just dog whistle about "1967 borders" because they Israel will never cooperate. It would be very damaging to their authority to actually cement the existence of Israel in an agreement.

Israel is a Jewish nation. Israel will not be safe with a UN-backed Palestinian terror-state on its borders that would no support and abet the anti-Semitic scum of the earth within their new country.

Well said, Potus.  The only thing I would add to this is that the US' betrayal of Israel in the UN is shameful at best, and disgusting at worst.  I guess it shouldn't be totally shocking, though....what else would you expect from Obama, not to mention John Kerry? And oh BTW....John Kerry is a traitorous and treasonous piece of you-know-what.  If you don't believe me, ask the people of South Vietnam, or the many American soldiers that he ran down in front of the enemy (at a "peace conference" in Vietnam back in the 70s).  I have no respect for Kerry...after January 20th, I hope he goes away, never to be heard from in public again. 

PS: If you don't like what I have to say about John Kerry, "bite me" (thanks Eric Bischoff). 

[Intell]

The two state solution is outdated. Large majorities of Palestinians believe terrorism against Israel is acceptable. The violence isnt about settlements or borders. The people stabbing Jews and blowing themselves up to kill Jews and fire rockets into Israel to kill Jews, they aren't really motivated by the settlements. Not motivated by want for statehood. The bottom line is they really don't like Jewish people and think they should leave or die. Even the political Palestinians, who try to treat the Temple Mount like it's not part of Israel, know this. They just dog whistle about "1967 borders" because they Israel will never cooperate. It would be very damaging to their authority to actually cement the existence of Israel in an agreement.

Israel is a Jewish nation. Israel will not be safe with a UN-backed Palestinian terror-state on its borders that would no support and abet the anti-Semitic scum of the earth within their new country.

Well said, Potus.  The only thing I would add to this is that the US' betrayal of Israel in the UN is shameful at best, and disgusting at worst.  I guess it shouldn't be totally shocking, though....what else would you expect from Obama, not to mention John Kerry? And oh BTW....John Kerry is a traitorous and treasonous piece of you-know-what.  If you don't believe me, ask the people of South Vietnam, or the many American soldiers that he ran down in front of the enemy (at a "peace conference" in Vietnam back in the 70s).  I have no respect for Kerry...after January 20th, I hope he goes away, never to be heard from in public again.  

PS: If you don't like what I have to say about John Kerry, "bite me" (thanks Eric Bischoff).  

 Anyone who supports settlements is supporting an awful racist policy. It is a system of apartheid being set up against the Palestinian People, a two state solution, or a one state solution, with two individual countries, is the only feasible option to peace and equality between Israelis and Palestinians. Israel has an upper hand, and the non-terrorist government of Israel, have killed and wounded much more Palestinian, that Palestinian suicide bombers ever have. This is not to excuse Hamas, leading Palestine, an awful, racist party, with no intention peace of brokering peace, with agenda as awful and even worse than Likuid. 2 wrongs don't make a right mate.

One can support Isreal's right to exist, while opposing the Israeli state as of current, and support a two state solution.

[Blair]

If you're still hung up with Kerry opposing the Vietnam war in the 1970's you have absolutely no right to lecture on US foreign policy

[Shadows]

Vietnam war was a disaster. It got many US people killed & it butchered millions of people in Vietnam, that country turned communist & a huge section of Vietnam hated the US & most countries looked at the war in a negative sense. I don't know how can people justify killing!

Even Bernie Sanders was an objector to that disaster of a war. And a Democrat LBJ who swept to victory in a landslide couldn't even run for re-election due to sinking popularity due to the Vietnam.

LBJ's (a Democrat with War on Poverty & Medicare/Medicaid/Civil rights/Food stamps) approval ratings was directly related to Vietnam & the people hated in the Vietnam war in the end - It was hugely unpopular then!

[Torie]

Personally, I have this feeling that the PA really does not want an independent state in a two state solution. With independence comes responsibility for its actions. The sad thing about it, is that over the decades, almost all Christians, along with most of the middle class, has long since decamped from the place. It's a tragedy really.

So perhaps what was noted above about Jordan plus most of the West Bank becoming a Palestinian state someday, might end up being the end game.

[Person Man]

Personally, I have this feeling that the PA really does not want an independent state in a two state solution. With independence comes responsibility for its actions. The sad thing about it, is that over the decades, almost all Christians, along with most of the middle class, has long since decamped from the place. It's a tragedy really.

So perhaps what was noted above about Jordan plus most of the West Bank becoming a Palestinian state someday, might end up being the end game.

You mean with Arab-majority WB becoming part of Jordon?
And Gaza eventually being annexed by Egypt?

[Frodo]

Option 1: like most Americans, I support(ed) a two-state solution ever since I became fully aware and informed of the issue in high school, with Israel and Palestine living side-by-side as (hopefully) liberal democracies.  

However, beginning with Yasser Arafat basically walking away from the Camp David Summit in 2000, Hamas taking over Gaza in 2007 after Israel dismantled its settlements there, and finally rendering the notion of a contiguous Palestinian state in the West Bank untenable with its expansion of settlements, I have glumly concluded we are likely to end up with a one-state solution, with Israel becoming a Jewish apartheid state, with the Palestinians in the role of the repressed black South Africans prior to 1994.

It won't end well for Israel as it chooses to become a pariah.  

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why is Israel accused of occupying gaza and West Bank . They were attacked 6 times and won a those wars and got that land in part of the agreement in ending the wars . So that is Israel land since they won the war .

Gaza is under Hamas, although I don't know if Israel still has siege around it.

West bank Israeli occupation is illegal by international standards. After the 6 day war in 67 odd,  The International community revised the earlier border of 47 (where Israel had lesser land area) & divided the area in a way such that only Gaza & West Bank was for Palestine & the rest was for Israel.

So any Israeli settlement of West Bank is illegal as the international community recognizes that land as a future Palestine state (PLO is an observer kind of thing in UN). This idea that you can fight in wars & annex & that part becomes yours is medieval. Any country can annex any part then. The West Bank is the last hope for a future Palestine state.

West Bank is still largely composed of Palestine people - Do you kill millions of Palestine people similar to the Holocaust because there is no way these people can live within Israel & neither will everyone abandon their homeland & flee (many millions have already fled as refugees anyways). This conflict will only blow up. We had 2 Intifadas, we are just sitting on the cusp of a 3rd more horrible one.

This is a Vox video about about the basics of the  Israel-Palestine conflict - But it is sad how moderate Israeli leaders have also been murdered by their own people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYZjOuUnlU&t=8s

Illegal by international standards lol what they won the land in 1973 in a war they didn't start which means it's their land period .