If the source, should Rove be jailed?

[MAS117]

?

[Angel of Death]

What if he makes a deal testifying against higher-ups in return for immunity? I mean, how did Rove end up with this info in the first place?

[The Duke]

I'm not familiar enough with the relevant statutes to say, but I am confident that if there is reason to investigate criminal activity it will be investigated, if there is reason to prosecute, then charges will be filed, if there is reason to imprison, he will be imprisoned, and if this is much ado about nothing then let it go.

We have a justice system for a reason, and the truth will come out.

[A18]

What a non-issue. Even the prosecutor says Rove is not a target.

[The Dowager Mod]

If convicted he should be treated like any other traitor.

[Richard]

If convicted he should be treated like any other traitor.

Like Alger Hiss?  Oddly enough, I don't think the New York Times will idolize him.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

People, you can't be put in jail for saying someone's wife works for the CIA....get a grip.

[Speed of Sound]

People, you can't be put in jail for saying someone's wife works for the CIA....get a grip.

had this been Clinton's right-hand man the reps. would want him sent to the gallows

[Emsworth]

had this been Clinton's right-hand man the reps. would want him sent to the gallows

^^^^^

[A18]

Um, for saying someone's wife works for the CIA? No.

[The Dowager Mod]

had this been Clinton's right-hand man the reps. would want him sent to the gallows

True dat

[TX_1824]

People, you can't be put in jail for saying someone's wife works for the CIA....get a grip.

had this been Clinton's right-hand man the reps. would want him sent to the gallows

It goes both ways. Politics as usual. So I guess you have a point.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

People, you can't be put in jail for saying someone's wife works for the CIA....get a grip.

Do you realize what the purpose of having agents undercover is?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Thing is, even if Rove outed her, the way the law is written the prosecutor will also have to prove that he knew she was an undercover agent as opposed to an open agent.  That likely will prove to be a steep hurdle to climb even if he did it.

Besides, given that she was married to a high-level US diplomat, if I were running a foreign counterintelligence service, I'd be looking real close at any of my nationals she was spending significant time with anyway.

[Sam Spade]

Just as an observation, my own reading of the matter says, and I will be quite honest that I have not read everything concerning the actual laws that deal with this case, is that a case such as the one being presented here against Rove is extremely hard to prove, as the legal standards for such a case are extremely high.  In other words, as of yet there's a lot of smoke, but no fire.  I'll list a couple of the reasons below.

First, you have to prove malicious intent.  In other words was Karl Rove, when mentioning that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA or was an undercover agent, doing this with an intent to out her name for political purposes, such as to get back at Joe Wilson.

Second, and this is an aspect that is not clear when you read various articles, was the fact that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA an unknown secret?  Or was the fact that Valerie Plame was a secret undercover agent working for the CIA an unknown secret?  These are two very different facts and we must not confuse the two when reading possible commentaries.

My bet, more likely than not, is that the chief prosecutor is trying to get one of the reporters or one of the sources in this case (and yes, I do believe there is more than one) on the charge of perjury, for having given false testimony under oath, or on the charge of obstruction of justice.

For those of you who are sharp readers, I hope you notice the apparent similarities with some past cases.

[Sam Spade]

Thing is, even if Rove outed her, the way the law is written the prosecutor will also have to prove that he knew she was an undercover agent as opposed to an open agent.  That likely will prove to be a steep hurdle to climb even if he did it.

Besides, given that she was married to a high-level US diplomat, if I were running a foreign counterintelligence service, I'd be looking real close at any of my nationals she was spending significant time with anyway.

Sort of what I was saying.  Sorry I missed your post.

[Speed of Sound]

Um, for saying someone's wife works for the CIA?

yes

[Jake]

Um, for saying someone's wife works for the CIA?

yes

Point out the illegal part about pointing out an occupation again.

[Speed of Sound]

Um, for saying someone's wife works for the CIA?

yes

Point out the illegal part about pointing out an occupation again.

well, generally CIA agents are undercover for a reason. they arent the most popular people in the world, especially to criminals anterrorists. revealing the name of this person, especially in anger over her husbands anti-war beliefs, is like putting a target on her back.

[Jake]

If it was common knowledge that she was a covert agent, this meaning Rove would know about it, wouldn't her cover already be blown?

[Sam Spade]

Thing is, even if Rove outed her, the way the law is written the prosecutor will also have to prove that he knew she was an undercover agent as opposed to an open agent.  That likely will prove to be a steep hurdle to climb even if he did it.

Going to quote this again, because it's the key point here.

If Rove said that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA, this is not illegal, especially if its "common knowledge", which it seems to have been.  Quite frankly, if Rove said that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA as an agent, it would still not be illegal.  Only if Rove said that Valerie Plame worked as an undercover agent for the CIA could that be illegal, and it would have to be shown to be given under malicious intent.  This is quite hard to prove in court, but it is the standard necessary under law.

Like I said before, my best guess is that the prosecutor is trying to get either one of the reporters or one of the sources under perjury for testimony given to the grand jury or under obstruction of justice.  It's the most obvious answer to the issues raised above by Ernest.

[Speed of Sound]

If it was common knowledge that she was a covert agent, this meaning Rove would know about it, wouldn't her cover already be blown?

well, Rove kind of with the 'in' crowd. plus Rove isnt a terrorist. Most of the time anyway.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Um, for saying someone's wife works for the CIA?

yes

Point out the illegal part about pointing out an occupation again.

well, generally CIA agents are undercover for a reason. they arent the most popular people in the world, especially to criminals anterrorists. revealing the name of this person, especially in anger over her husbands anti-war beliefs, is like putting a target on her back.

not to mention this jepordizes basically every operation they've ever been on. All foreign governments they've had contact with now know tha was a CIA agent, could get quite messy.

[Speed of Sound]

Um, for saying someone's wife works for the CIA?

yes

Point out the illegal part about pointing out an occupation again.

well, generally CIA agents are undercover for a reason. they arent the most popular people in the world, especially to criminals anterrorists. revealing the name of this person, especially in anger over her husbands anti-war beliefs, is like putting a target on her back.

not to mention this jepordizes basically every operation they've ever been on. All foreign governments they've had contact with now know tha was a CIA agent, could get quite messy.

indeed

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

People, you can't be put in jail for saying someone's wife works for the CIA....get a grip.

Do you realize what the purpose of having agents undercover is?

Yes I do.  But you've been watching WAY TOO MUCH tv if you think simply stating someone works for the CIA is a crime in the United States.