"Mexico Issues Stamps of Black Caricature"

[minionofmidas]

sorry, I'm ranting.  I'll stop.  all this just seems like misplaced/feigned empathy and severe overreaction to me.

Me too.

[Storebought]

a little chihuahua saying, "Yo quiero Taco Bell" would be a bigger hit. 


"La cucaracha, La cucaracha
 Ya no quiere caminar
 Porque no tiene, porque la falta
 marijuana que fumar"

And they could retaliate with Yosemite Sam and his six shooters firing on some mesopotamian village and destroying statues and temples in the desert.

I think we're all missing the greater point.  We are uptight in many ways.  The thought-police and book-burners of the Politically Correct variety were in with a vengeance in the early 90s, but they've lost a good deal of clout.  Still, a lingering lack of freedom and creativity remains.  What if some well-meaning philatelist wanted to submit to the post office a series of stamps honoring famous americans, or folk heroes, or short-story cartoon characters.  Probably at some point somebody has attempted to honor Al Jolsen, for example, in this way.  But, with our uptight authoritarian leftist contingent, the post office says, no way.  That's a hot potato we don't want anything to do with.  So the stamp never gets made.  Fine.  whatever.  Actually, it's probably of interest to a few esoteric collectors anyway, and I really don't give a damn what's on the stamp, but I have no problem with the USPS honoring all sorts of bits of americana.  For example, Young Elvis or Old Elvis?  More than once I heard bitching and moaning about how putting fat old elvis was tantamount to honoring materialism and glorifying drug abuse.  Give it a rest!  It's just a stamp.

Mexicans just don't seem to have this hang up, and the last thing we ought to be doing right now is pressuring other countries to become more uptight.  Seriously.

Yes, it's all fun and games, so long as it's not your kind that's being degraded. For centuries, no less.

Mexico has all of 1000 black people, but some dude 60 years ago decided that it would be 'cute' to base a little cartoon on their second-hand stereotype.

Really, why did he have to import an already richly-developed caricature of the little pickanninny when 1940s Mexico was chock full of other types: the Indian peon, the shiftless mestizo, the pigheaded peninsularo? I know why: the dude was a hack, and a coward, no less.

That's the same reason why I severely dislike Al Jolson. Not because he was a blackfaced minstrel--The only really funny joke on Saturday Night Live came from a minstrel skit--but because he, a Lithuanian Jew, already had a centuries-long tradition to base his schtick on. Likewise, a hack.

[minionofmidas]

Actually, Al Jolson probably did base his shtick mostly on his own tradition...just not in the most obvious of ways...
I see your point, though. What I'm wondering about is...if this thing is still up and running after 60 years...what's its content now? The drawing style perpetuates all the old racist jokes o/c, but does the content?

[angus]

a little chihuahua saying, "Yo quiero Taco Bell" would be a bigger hit. 


"La cucaracha, La cucaracha
 Ya no quiere caminar
 Porque no tiene, porque la falta
 marijuana que fumar"

And they could retaliate with Yosemite Sam and his six shooters firing on some mesopotamian village and destroying statues and temples in the desert.

I think we're all missing the greater point.  We are uptight in many ways.  The thought-police and book-burners of the Politically Correct variety were in with a vengeance in the early 90s, but they've lost a good deal of clout.  Still, a lingering lack of freedom and creativity remains.  What if some well-meaning philatelist wanted to submit to the post office a series of stamps honoring famous americans, or folk heroes, or short-story cartoon characters.  Probably at some point somebody has attempted to honor Al Jolsen, for example, in this way.  But, with our uptight authoritarian leftist contingent, the post office says, no way.  That's a hot potato we don't want anything to do with.  So the stamp never gets made.  Fine.  whatever.  Actually, it's probably of interest to a few esoteric collectors anyway, and I really don't give a damn what's on the stamp, but I have no problem with the USPS honoring all sorts of bits of americana.  For example, Young Elvis or Old Elvis?  More than once I heard bitching and moaning about how putting fat old elvis was tantamount to honoring materialism and glorifying drug abuse.  Give it a rest!  It's just a stamp.

Mexicans just don't seem to have this hang up, and the last thing we ought to be doing right now is pressuring other countries to become more uptight.  Seriously.

Yes, it's all fun and games, so long as it's not your kind that's being degraded. For centuries, no less.

possibly.  I can't argue with you over what to think.  And if you truly got your feelings hurt over a stamp (from another country!), then it's far beyond the scope of my expertease to give you therapy.  But I do feel compelled to suggest that Mexico has far greater problems than what they're putting on their stamps.  And the people that count on Jesse Jackson to be their mouthpiece (assuming there are any) may have bigger problems as well.  I know I do.  And I do not think that what was probably a genuine attempt to honor a comic-book character should be read as hateful.  I know if you're black, or white, or asian, or from West Virginia, or southern italy, or jewish, or fat, or skinny, or short, or poor, or republican, or democrat, or gay, or have herpes, you're occassionally going to be the butt of a joke.  And such jokes are insensitive.  No doubt about it.  I do not disagree with the statement that any joke about any possible demographic is bound to hurt someone's feelings.  For example, I'm either a misogynistic plutocratic pig, or an uninformed religious nut, or a neoconservative hell-bent on destroying the known universe if I support Bush.  And we hear jokes about Bush supporters all the time.  Insensitive?  yes.  Uninformed?  yes.  Does it hurt me?  no.  I really have better things to worry about.  You can call me an insensitive prick if you want, but I can't pretend that I think this stamp is big deal any more than I can pretend that sponge bob's sexual orientation is.  And those two have quite a bit in common, it seems.  Both cartoon characters, both carrying the weight of a misplaced Kulturkampf on their paper-and-ink shoulders, and both are going to be as big a problem as busybodies want to make them out to be. 

[Storebought]

a little chihuahua saying, "Yo quiero Taco Bell" would be a bigger hit. 


"La cucaracha, La cucaracha
 Ya no quiere caminar
 Porque no tiene, porque la falta
 marijuana que fumar"

And they could retaliate with Yosemite Sam and his six shooters firing on some mesopotamian village and destroying statues and temples in the desert.

I think we're all missing the greater point.  We are uptight in many ways.  The thought-police and book-burners of the Politically Correct variety were in with a vengeance in the early 90s, but they've lost a good deal of clout.  Still, a lingering lack of freedom and creativity remains.  What if some well-meaning philatelist wanted to submit to the post office a series of stamps honoring famous americans, or folk heroes, or short-story cartoon characters.  Probably at some point somebody has attempted to honor Al Jolsen, for example, in this way.  But, with our uptight authoritarian leftist contingent, the post office says, no way.  That's a hot potato we don't want anything to do with.  So the stamp never gets made.  Fine.  whatever.  Actually, it's probably of interest to a few esoteric collectors anyway, and I really don't give a damn what's on the stamp, but I have no problem with the USPS honoring all sorts of bits of americana.  For example, Young Elvis or Old Elvis?  More than once I heard bitching and moaning about how putting fat old elvis was tantamount to honoring materialism and glorifying drug abuse.  Give it a rest!  It's just a stamp.

Mexicans just don't seem to have this hang up, and the last thing we ought to be doing right now is pressuring other countries to become more uptight.  Seriously.

Yes, it's all fun and games, so long as it's not your kind that's being degraded. For centuries, no less.

possibly.  I can't argue with you over what to think.  And if you truly got your feelings hurt over a stamp (from another country!), then it's far beyond the scope of my expertease to give you therapy.  But I do feel compelled to suggest that Mexico has far greater problems than what they're putting on their stamps.  And the people that count on Jesse Jackson to be their mouthpiece (assuming there are any) may have bigger problems as well.  I know I do.  And I do not think that what was probably a genuine attempt to honor a comic-book character should be read as hateful.  I know if you're black, or white, or asian, or from West Virginia, or southern italy, or jewish, or fat, or skinny, or short, or poor, or republican, or democrat, or gay, or have herpes, you're occassionally going to be the butt of a joke.  And such jokes are insensitive.  No doubt about it.  I do not disagree with the statement that any joke about any possible demographic is bound to hurt someone's feelings.  For example, I'm either a misogynistic plutocratic pig, or an uninformed religious nut, or a neoconservative hell-bent on destroying the known universe if I support Bush.  And we hear jokes about Bush supporters all the time.  Insensitive?  yes.  Uninformed?  yes.  Does it hurt me?  no.  I really have better things to worry about.  You can call me an insensitive prick if you want, but I can't pretend that I think this stamp is big deal any more than I can pretend that sponge bob's sexual orientation is.  And those two have quite a bit in common, it seems.  Both cartoon characters, both carrying the weight of a misplaced Kulturkampf on their paper-and-ink shoulders, and both are going to be as big a problem as busybodies want to make them out to be. 

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I suppose the original cartoon series could have been worse: At least little Peguin didn't drink the blood of Christian babies...

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That was precisely my point! Mexico has problems o-plenty. My beef with this caricature is that, rather than trying to use humor to illustrate them, the hack just stole the easiest thing available to him, namely a black simian creature that Theodore Roosevelt and Wilson would call uninspired.

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There's the rub: Bush will be out of office in 2009, so all this LeftWingHate will be simply irrelevant, not just to you, but to every thinking person by 2010. By 2060 Bush, and Clinton, and bin Laden will all be obscure Trivial Pursuit questions.

I will just tell you straight: The particular Mexican cartoon is trivial and ridiculous. The stamp is an irrelevance. But the stereotypes it uses are not (having grown up w/ them back in Louisiana). And I, for one, am damned sick of them.

[angus]

obviously, this is important to you.  If it weren't, you wouldn't have posted the image in the first place.  you've been a very forthright poster.  And my rantings didn't address your points, since I'm a bit preoccupied with my work at the moment.  Still, I know problems when I see them, and this didn't strike me as a particularly problematic stamp issuance.  For example, there are restaurants in Bavaria, and in Southern France, and, yes, in Mexico, where a black won't even get service.  (in particular in the yucatan peninsula.)  That's what I'd call a problem.  In fact, the Lonely Planet Guide series has a policy of discontinuing references to them, if you report elitist habits, and if they can be confirmed.  The good news is that the power of the purse, in a free market, is greater than that of the government.  And I applaud LP for their efforts to ensure equal treatment for all consumers.  But the fact remains that in Mexico black gringos and white gringos are treated differently.  And when I have observed such examples of elitism I have reported them.  Only twice, actually, and I reported both instances to the LP and the Rough Guide series.  The latter being less interested, FYI.  But that's, to me, a far cry from the government issuing a stamp with a cartoon character.   You probably think I'm being rather insensitive (and my guess is that Reverend Dobson would think I'm an insensitive SOB as well).   Anyway, I've gotten myself into the unenviable position of attempting to defend a stamp that I don't much give a damn about one way or the other, and I really don't know much about the Memin Penguin stories.  I appreciate the feeling of being sick of stereotypes, and not entirely unexperienced with being stereotyped (Hey, I'm a registered republican living in manhattan!)  I admit my insensitivity to the experience of being african in a european-dominated world.  Still, it just seems to me that this stamp was issued as a reference to a comic-book series that mexicans would fondly remember, not unlike, say, if the USPS issued a SpiderMan stamp.  I have a hard time thinking that a mexican government would, after the browbeating Fox received at his comments about mexicans taking jobs that "...tanto los negros no las quisierian...", go out of their way to further demeaning stereotypes of people of african descent.

[ThePrezMex]

I think all the episode is pretty ridiculous.
As it has been said, this is a cartoon created back in the 1940's. I don't know who made the drawings, but the lady who used to write the storyline was one of the most respected writer of the famous mexican soap operas; the cartoon was actually created in order to try to get rid of stereotypes. I think you can still buy the comic books, but I think they stopped publishing new ones a long time ago; just re-prints.
In any case, nobody would have noticed the stamps if Vicente Fox had not made those remarks some weeks ago. Having said that, it is quite obvious that it's not the President's job to review every night which new stamps are going to be issued.

PS: in terms of stereotypes, we could also argue against Speedy Gonzalez, but we don't.

[Storebought]

I think all the episode is pretty ridiculous.
PS: in terms of stereotypes, we could also argue against Speedy Gonzalez, but we don't.

Speedy Gonzales isn't the real stereotype; his friend, the enormous rat Slow-Poke Rodriguez is the stereotype.

[ThePrezMex]

I think all the episode is pretty ridiculous.
PS: in terms of stereotypes, we could also argue against Speedy Gonzalez, but we don't.

Speedy Gonzales isn't the real stereotype; his friend, the enormous rat Slow-Poke Rodriguez is the stereotype.

Yes, you're right. I think I was trying to refer to the entire cartoon, not just Speedy

[KillerPollo]

Remind me, what year are we in exactly?

You must remember Al. Mexico is 40-50 years behind the rest of the civilized world.

you should be hanged just for saying that! Let's think about Canadia for a bit, eh!?

And i'm pretty sure you've never been to the REAL mexico itself!

[MaC]

well KillerPollo, you did say their highway system is underdeveloped and it's just starting out now.  I don't think States is too far off in that statement. 

[KillerPollo]

well KillerPollo, you did say their highway system is underdeveloped and it's just starting out now.  I don't think States is too far off in that statement. 

not now, i said the late 70's

[??????????]

Remind me, what year are we in exactly?

You must remember Al. Mexico is 40-50 years behind the rest of the civilized world.

you should be hanged just for saying that! Let's think about Canadia for a bit, eh!?

And i'm pretty sure you've never been to the REAL mexico itself!

If your country is so advanced and great then why the hell are illegals flowing over here by the hundreds of thousands on a yearly basis?

[minionofmidas]

You know the answer.
To spread civilization to areas as yet untouched by civilization, of course.

[Gabu]

you should be hanged just for saying that! Let's think about Canadia for a bit, eh!?

I'm fairly sure that Canada doesn't have any exaggerated caricatures of a black kid on its stamps, so I'm not sure why we're thinking about it.

[KillerPollo]

If your country is so advanced and great then why the hell are illegals flowing over here by the hundreds of thousands on a yearly basis?

THOUSANDS? come on! you know that number is exaggerated by the extremely biased American media that wants you to believe my country is as penniless and backwarded as afganistan or somalia, which is definitely not the case. most ppl who cross the border are either from the southern mexican states, or from central and south america, but are just assumed to be flat-out Mexican. Hell, there's even been iraqis disguised as mexicans attempting to cross the border... so again The reason why there's more border jumping in Mexico is: well look where it's located! look at how many countries are below mexico! are there any heavily populated countries above canada? hmmmmmmm well, by polar bears and penguins maybe!

Most countries below Mexico are way poorer so these inhabitants use Mexico as a bridge! I'm pretty sure that the canadian border, since it's larger, would also leak w/ illegals if there was a hoard of pauper nations above canada! and these jumpers would also be assumed to be Canadian.

[minionofmidas]

If your country is so advanced and great then why the hell are illegals flowing over here by the hundreds of thousands on a yearly basis?

THOUSANDS? come on! you know that number is exaggerated by the extremely biased American media that wants you to believe my country is as penniless and backwarded as afganistan or somalia, which is definitely not the case. most ppl who cross the border are either from the southern mexican states, or from central and south america, but are just assumed to be flat-out Mexican. Hell, there's even been iraqis disguised as mexicans attempting to cross the border... so again The reason why there's more border jumping in Mexico is: well look where it's located! look at how many countries are below mexico! are there any heavily populated countries above canada? hmmmmmmm well, by polar bears and penguins maybe!

There is another reason...Canada already is "The West"...no reason to try and get into the US once you've managed to sneak into Canada.

[KillerPollo]

There is another reason...Canada already is "The West"...no reason to try and get into the US once you've managed to sneak into Canada.

ok ok ok! are you implying that my country is not western? LOL! you gotta be kidding me! we're also part of the western world, It's not like Mexic is in Asia, you kno... or we're like an islamic nation!

[minionofmidas]

There is another reason...Canada already is "The West"...no reason to try and get into the US once you've managed to sneak into Canada.

ok ok ok! are you implying that my country is not western? LOL! you gotta be kidding me! we're also part of the western world, It's not like Mexic is in Asia, you kno... or we're like an islamic nation!

"The First World", whatever...it's not Somalia o/c, nor India, but it's not exactly the US either. That's all I was saying.