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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2005, 10:03:10 AM »

The deaths of thousands of insects everyday are usually described as "birds circling"... Kiki

So?
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2005, 10:13:00 AM »

The deaths of thousands of insects everyday are usually described as "birds circling"... Kiki

So?
Just pointing out that, in either case, either statement is "correct". Whether it's wise to refer to events in that matter, what it tells about the speaker, etc, is a different matter of course.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2005, 10:34:14 AM »

Just pointing out that, in either case, either statement is "correct". Whether it's wise to refer to events in that matter, what it tells about the speaker, etc, is a different matter of course.

I meant correct as in "is correct behavior to say x". Calling someone of Pakistani origin a "paki" is "correct" in one sense; it clearly isn't in the other sense.
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2005, 10:39:00 AM »

He may. Doesn't mean the guy he hands a nuke off to does.

Consider Hussein. Had the assassination plot against President Bush been successful, he would have been a goner, but he ordered it anyway.

Not neccesarily true. Qaddafi is still alive and well.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2005, 10:45:29 AM »

Just pointing out that, in either case, either statement is "correct". Whether it's wise to refer to events in that matter, what it tells about the speaker, etc, is a different matter of course.

I meant correct as in "is correct behavior to say x". Calling someone of Pakistani origin a "paki" is "correct" in one sense; it clearly isn't in the other sense.
Ah, political correctness. How about "appropriate"?
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WMS
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« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2005, 12:44:13 PM »

Well, whilst impersonal, he's correct, Al.

The US did meddle in the middle east, rightly or wrongly; that meddlingly did, of course, prduce resentment; some of the most extreme of those who resented the US knocked down a couple of buildings. It was a tragedy, but it's not like it came totally out of the blue and for no reason at all. Whether we AGREE with the reason or not doesn't matter; it still existed. Plus maybe things do need to be put into perspective a bit more-more people died in Bhopal, but that hardly changed the world order.

Septmber 11 was a tragedy, sure, but it wasn't the worst thing that's even happenned in the world, and it was at least partially because of US actions. That's fact, like it or not.
I still, however, reserve my right to hold citizens of my own country who root for my country's enemies and care not for the loss of lives of my countrymen in highest contempt. You're still a fuc*ing traitor, Opebo, regardless of any 'perspective' that can be applied to your comments.
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opebo
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« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2005, 10:05:18 PM »

Just putting things in perspective.

Thousands of people DIED in a pretty horrible way

No doubt, but the only reason we hear so much about it is they were americans.  Thousands of foreigners die in horrible ways all the time, sometimes at american hands, and of course we hear nothing about it.

In any event, the point is the way to prevent the death of any more 'little Eichmans' is to stop meddling, not to go kill a bunch of foreigners.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2005, 02:51:44 AM »

No doubt, but the only reason we hear so much about it is they were americans.  Thousands of foreigners die in horrible ways all the time, sometimes at american hands, and of course we hear nothing about it.

Um... you know what news is, right? Most stuff gets reported; not always enough but it gets reported.

Sure, 9/11 was covered a lot in the U.S because it happend in the U.S (the victims came from a lot of different countries though) but that's entirely understandable surely? And anyway, if a plane had been crashed into (say) the Kremlin I *think* it would have got a lot of coverage, don't you?

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minionofmidas
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« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2005, 04:33:14 AM »

Little Eichmanns? Wtf'in hell? Get a grip, Ope. Smiley
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opebo
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« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2005, 06:15:38 PM »

Little Eichmanns? Wtf'in hell? Get a grip, Ope. Smiley

Oh, you remeber that 'Indian' professor that was always paraded about on FOX news to rile the lumpenproletariate?  The one who called the 9/11 victims 'little Eichmans'?  I liked that guy.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2005, 03:48:26 PM »

Little Eichmanns? Wtf'in hell? Get a grip, Ope. Smiley

Oh, you remeber that 'Indian' professor that was always paraded about on FOX news to rile the lumpenproletariate?  The one who called the 9/11 victims 'little Eichmans'?  I liked that guy.
No, I don't, since I don't watch FOX news.
At least I see where you were coming from now.
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Citizen James
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« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2005, 05:51:41 PM »

Yes, as a matter of fact I do.  It was my Sr. year of college (first degree).  I was more or less busy searching for work and dealing with senioritis to pay too much attention to world events at the time - so I checked the wiki year listings to see what rings a bell.

I remember all too well the problems with air safety (a plane lost part of it's roof and several passengers, plus the infamous terrorism on flight 103. 

The tien a mein square massacre is something I remember all too well.  It's somewhat sad how some of the posters here don't realize how ruthless China's regime is - murdering thousands of people in front of numerous reporters and cameras.   Sadly, economic systems are no guarentor of freedom.

The execution of Ceauşescu meant the fall of the last vestages of the iron curtain, and made for a heady optimism for that part of the world.

The Marcos trial captured a fair amount of public attention (anybody want some shoes...)

I remember the beginning of gulf war well.  My first reaction was - damn, there goes my chances at a real job (I was working McJobs at the time).  But there was a massive patriotism which rivals the early post-9/11 days in the air.  Even those who opposed the war went out of their way to be respectful of the troops.   Yellow ribbons were everywhere.  Several songs were associated with the war - from Lee Greenwood's hyperpatriotic "God bless the USA", to Vanessa Williams sentemental "get here" to the semi-protest "praying for time" by George Michael and "from a distance" from Bette Midler.

Bush was seriously considered absolutely unbeatable for reelection.  (Unfortunately, he ran such a lousy campaign he actually managed to convince voters such as myself not to vote for him in the waining days of the campaign).

So in short, that particualar timespan was a fairly heady time for me - with some economic concerns, and terrorism wasn't far from people's minds (nor the brutality of the PRC), but also a strong patriotism (In many ways stronger than the current cult of personallity that surrounds W, because the love was for the USA, not a specific party or politician).  There was a great optimism for the post-war world.

And the idea of danger - vs. the public's perception of danger, are two very different things.  Of course we can look at history with the benefit of hindsite and we know how things turned out.   WW2 was not considered a sure victory in 1942, no matter how much we waved the flag and encouraged optimism.

Probably the biggest difference it that in no other time of history that I am aware of has the government encouraged the people to be fearful.   Vigliant to be sure, hateful even, but not fearful.   And yet fear is very handy when you want to manipulate people.  That's probably the biggest difference in my opinion of the two Bushs - I believe that Bush Sr. honestly cared about the well being of America, I don't think W. cares about anything more than keeping power and the well being of his cronies - and that he sees the people as little more than sheep to be fleeced.

Times are always dangerous.  I think these times are more dangerous than some (the late post war 40's, or the 90's when we took preventing and dealing with terrorism seriously - as a task rather than a political gimmick), but less so than the cuban missile crisis of the 60's, the second world war, or (to make a major contrast) the black plague which killed off about a third of Europe.
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opebo
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« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2005, 06:56:05 PM »

Little Eichmanns? Wtf'in hell? Get a grip, Ope. Smiley

Oh, you remeber that 'Indian' professor that was always paraded about on FOX news to rile the lumpenproletariate?  The one who called the 9/11 victims 'little Eichmans'?  I liked that guy.
No, I don't, since I don't watch FOX news.
At least I see where you were coming from now.

Well, this guy Chapman or something like that liked to call the 9/11 'victims' little Eichmans because as he saw it they were participating in, supporting, and benefiting from the global fascist system that the US has imposed.  At any rate it was refreshing to hear someone puncturing the sanctimonious view of these essentially very ordinary people.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2005, 12:37:19 PM »

You recognize that that's a pretty ridiculous position when you look at just who got killed there mostly, like, you know, window cleaners and such? It was pretty early after all.
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