DBWI: Bush wins in the 2000 recount and is elected President

[Mike Thick]

Let's suppose that, for whatever reason, a few hundred ballots flip in Florida in 2000 and Bush gets the win. We still go through the same lengthy court cases, but the result is flipped and Bush wins the presidency with Florida's electors. The popular vote margin is the same -- only those few hundred votes are knocked off Bush's MOV, which is consequently just as substantial as it was IRL.

How does Bush's Presidency go? Do the 9/11 attacks still happen? Is he able to win a second term? Discuss with maps.

[Kingpoleon]

I doubt we'd be worse off, considering the Great Recession that began in 2003.

We definitely wouldn't have had the Pataki/Dole ticket even nominated in 2004 or 2008 probably. I don't know that a better ticket would emerge for the Republicans in 2008.

Do you think Dean would have ran against Bush in 2004?

[Mike Thick]

I doubt we'd be worse off, considering the Great Recession that began in 2003.

We definitely wouldn't have had the Pataki/Dole ticket even nominated in 2004 or 2008 probably. I don't know that a better ticket would emerge for the Republicans in 2008.

Do you think Dean would have ran against Bush in 2004?

Considering how effectively he campaigned in 2008 and how big his win was over President Pataki, it's hard to imagine he wouldn't have knocked out an unpopular and very conservative incumbent.

[skoods]

Let's suppose that, for whatever reason, a few hundred ballots flip in Florida in 2000 and Bush gets the win. We still go through the same lengthy court cases, but the result is flipped and Bush wins the presidency with Florida's electors. The popular vote margin is the same -- only those few hundred votes are knocked off Bush's MOV, which is consequently just as substantial as it was IRL.

How does Bush's Presidency go? Do the 9/11 attacks still happen? Is he able to win a second term? Discuss with maps.

I don't understand this. The result is flipped? This is exactly what happened IRL.

[Sir Mohamed]

What does DBWI stand for? Maybe then I understand this thread.

[Captain Chaos]

If Bush won Florida and with it, the 2000 election, we would have been spared the unpopular Pataki administration. Remember when John McCain resigned as Secretary of Defense when he learned that the CIA and Homeland Security Secretary Dick Cheney administered the "enhanced interrogation techniques" (another fancy word for torture) and Pataki would not put a stop to it?

[Mike Thick]

A double-blind what-if. It's speculation about what would have happened in OTL from the point of view of an alternate reality.

[Mike Thick]

If Bush won Florida and with it, the 2000 election, we would have been spared the unpopular Pataki administration. Remember when John McCain resigned as Secretary of Defense when he learned that the CIA and Homeland Security Secretary Dick Cheney administered the "enhanced interrogation techniques" (another fancy word for torture) and Pataki would not put a stop to it?

Yeah, Pataki was a jerk. It's hard to imagine a Bush or a Dean doing the same thing -- they both just seemed so nice.

[rpryor03]

I think the real question is who'd be the nominees in 2016? Because I don't think the Democrats could have nominated anyone better than Secretary Biden (well, they could have, but blue dogs aren't well loved anymore). But I know the Republicans could have done better than Governor Christie. (Admittedly, he's better than the flop that was VP Dole.)

[Devout Centrist]

All I know is there wouldn't have been an Iraq War because Bush disliked nation building.

[Kingpoleon]

If Bush won Florida and with it, the 2000 election, we would have been spared the unpopular Pataki administration. Remember when John McCain resigned as Secretary of Defense when he learned that the CIA and Homeland Security Secretary Dick Cheney administered the "enhanced interrogation techniques" (another fancy word for torture) and Pataki would not put a stop to it?

Yeah, Pataki was a jerk. It's hard to imagine a Bush or a Dean doing the same thing -- they both just seemed so nice.

Dean did help phase it out with the help of Secretary of the Army Chuck Hagel and CIA Director Bob Gates, starting in 2009. It's probably what's helped his popularity.

((OOC: Just to be clear, the TTL list of Presidents is, I think:
2001-2005: Al Gore/Joe Lieberman
2005-2009: George Pataki/Elizabeth Dole
2009-???: Howard Dean/??))

[Mike Thick]

I think the pro-incumbent effect due to the 9/11 attacks in the 2002 midterms might have been flipped, helping Republicans. I think that a lot of people would have lost out, like Kathleen Townsend, Jeanne Shaheen, maybe Brad Henry. There's no way Tom Strickland would won, and therefore make it far enough to be a plausible Presidential contender, let alone Dean's Vice President.

[Faust]

All I know is there wouldn't have been an Iraq War because Bush disliked nation building.

You never know, the presidency changes people. Also Dick Cheney was his VP.

[rpryor03]

I think the pro-incumbent effect due to the 9/11 attacks in the 2002 midterms might have been flipped, helping Republicans. I think that a lot of people would have lost out, like Kathleen Townsend, Jeanne Shaheen, maybe Brad Henry. There's no way Tom Strickland would won, and therefore make it far enough to be a plausible Presidential contender, let alone Dean's Vice President.

Is it wrong that I always seem to forget who Tom Strickland is? I always confuse him with my former Governor, Ted Strickland. (And potentially my next Senator. Grr.) Tom's just SUCH a non-entity in politics now. I mean, say what you like about Vice Presidents Lieberman or Dole, they were at least relatively active in the political sphere! Tom showed up at a rally to help Senator Udall and Governor Hickenlooper in November 2014, and I saw the picture, and I asked myself: who's that other guy on stage? I mean, say what you will about "Oops" Perry, but he would have been a much better VP than Strickland. Perry killed at the VP Debate in 2012. (Until he had the "Oops" moment and killed any and all credibility he had. Can't win 'em all.)

[Mike Thick]

I think the pro-incumbent effect due to the 9/11 attacks in the 2002 midterms might have been flipped, helping Republicans. I think that a lot of people would have lost out, like Kathleen Townsend, Jeanne Shaheen, maybe Brad Henry. There's no way Tom Strickland would won, and therefore make it far enough to be a plausible Presidential contender, let alone Dean's Vice President.

Is it wrong that I always seem to forget who Tom Strickland is? I always confuse him with my former Governor, Ted Strickland. (And potentially my next Senator. Grr.) Tom's just SUCH a non-entity in politics now. I mean, say what you like about Vice Presidents Lieberman or Dole, they were at least relatively active in the political sphere! Tom showed up at a rally to help Senator Udall and Governor Hickenlooper in November 2014, and I saw the picture, and I asked myself: who's that other guy on stage? I mean, say what you will about "Oops" Perry, but he would have been a much better VP than Strickland. Perry killed at the VP Debate in 2012. (Until he had the "Oops" moment and killed any and all credibility he had. Can't win 'em all.)

Tom Strickland is a nebbish. I thought Jeb Bush 2012 was the worst Presidential campaign in modern history, but "Tom! 2K16" really gave him a run for his money.