Mass shooting at LGBT nightclub in Orlando.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I guess Obama doesn't watch the news. If he did he would know that the shooter pledged his allegiance to ISIS and had been on terror watch lists in the past. What the hell does he mean we don't know what motive, if any?  It couldn't be any more obvious.

Because we don't jump to conclusions. It's that kind of rash judgement that results in more horrible things happening. The investigation is underway, let them investigate.

[Mr. Reactionary]

The terror watch list weapon ban would have been unconstitutional, as good of an idea as it is.

Would it, though? Felons can't buy guns, more or less, so what would be wrong with banning people on that list from purchasing firearms? Would the Heller decision have anything to do with this?

If we have people on watch lists, it really doesn't make sense to allow them to purchase guns. The only issue I have with it is that innocent people on the list would have a hassle, so maybe they should have tiers and only ban certain people on that list from owning firearms. Having a quick way to appeal your standing on the list would be good, too.

There are three big issues with the proposed ban. The first is that it denies a constitutionally protected right to citizens without any form of due process. Felons had their day in court. While not as formal as a trial, commitment proceedings still fall within constitutional due process, as there is notice and an opportunity by the person to be heard by a court prior to deprivation of their rights. Same for persons dishonorably discharged from the military. The 5th Amendment requires due process prior to deprivation of liberty, which includes 2nd Amendment rights. Having an unidentified government official place a name onto one of the lists based on who knows what reason is not adequate process. As this is not a final action, it is nominally unreviewable under the APA and agencies will usually not tell persons that they are on one of the lists, even when asked by that person. The lack of notice, opportunity to challenge, or even sue in court through normal means would clearly violate due process, as there is a deprivation of a fundamental right flowing from the governmental act.

The second issue is that there are multiple watch lists, many of them are inaccurate, and usually they only contain a list of names, not a list of identities. Boston Legal had a good critique of this latter argument, in an episode where the name "Denny Crane" was on the no-fly list. Alan Shore filled the gallery with other people named "Denny Crane" who were also facing difficulties despite not being the particular Denny Crane who the government had in mind when they placed the name on one of the lists. Multiple federal agencies have separate lists of terror suspects or their names/aliases; many of these come from leads or unverified tips. These lists then gets compiled into the actual no-fly list, which again is just a list of names and aliases to refuse boarding passes to. There is nothing to ensure that some poor schmuck with the name Muhammad Hezekiah Sharif won't be unfairly punished for having an unlucky name if the list says Muhammad Shariff is a possible alias for a terrorist. If the list was actually limited to verified identities with enough probable cause to warrant them being placed on the list, then it might be a different story. But we're awash in anneccdotes from the ACLU about infants, or Cat Stevens, or Ted Kennedy being mistakenly targeted because of a similar name on the list.

The third issue is that the proposed law possibly undermines active terrorism investigations. Under this law, if I was a terrorist, and I wanted to check to see if the Feds knew about me, I'd try to buy a gun. If I get flagged, then I know someone is watching me. And it wouldn't require me to have to buy  a plane ticket and risk showing up at the airport.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Obama didnt mention radical Islam not once.  He talked about guns instead.   I swear i wonder is this president sympathetic to this faction of Muslims.   

He didn't or couldn't utter the words " radical Islam" .. unbelievable.

Why does the right-wing throw such a hissy fit over a complete non-issue. Let the man do the job he was born to do. Any one of you doing it would mean the end of America..

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I guess Obama doesn't watch the news. If he did he would know that the shooter pledged his allegiance to ISIS and had been on terror watch lists in the past. What the hell does he mean we don't know what motive, if any?  It couldn't be any more obvious.

Agreed, we need a President who throws out every rumour that the news wants to put out there as red meat. We should look into the JFK assassination again.

[Green Line]

I guess Obama doesn't watch the news. If he did he would know that the shooter pledged his allegiance to ISIS and had been on terror watch lists in the past. What the hell does he mean we don't know what motive, if any?  It couldn't be any more obvious.

Agreed, we need a President who throws out every rumour that the news wants to put out there as red meat. We should look into the JFK assassination again.

It's not a rumor. And ok lol, radical islam is just as conspiratorial as the JFK assasination. Did you just wake up from a 15 year coma?

[MK]

I guess Obama doesn't watch the news. If he did he would know that the shooter pledged his allegiance to ISIS and had been on terror watch lists in the past. What the hell does he mean we don't know what motive, if any?  It couldn't be any more obvious.

Agreed, we need a President who throws out every rumour that the news wants to put out there as red meat. We should look into the JFK assassination again.

Give me a break.    This president refuses to acknowledge radical Islam and has done so his entire time.

[ingemann]

It's unlikely that he was a member of a larger organisation, he fit the profile of self radicalised Islamist solo terrorists. They usual declare their allegiance to the most high profile Islamist terror organisation before they commit their act of terror. But they're unlikely to have been contact with the organisation (at most they have been in contact with non-terrorist radicals) and they select the target on their own.

A similar pattern applies to far right terrorism of course (not just Brevik but also e.g. David Copeland or all the sad losers that still get arrested in every six months or so here after trying to buy explosives on the internet).

The main difference is that far-right terrorist usual don't swear allegiance to some organisation, they seem to take pride in the fact, that they're lone wolves.

[SATW]

Prayers to the LGBT community, and prayers to Orlando

[MK]

The Islamic state is now taking responsibility for this attack.

Wow.. not to get too political but this may swing the election.

[publicunofficial]

The Islamic state is now taking responsibility for this attack.

Wow.. not to get too political but this may swing the election.

Try to hide your erection.

[Fusionmunster]

The Islamic state is now taking responsibility for this attack.

Wow.. not to get too political but this may swing the election.

Your kidding, right? It wasn't coordinated, they're just taking credit.

[Gass3268]

The United States hasn't earned a President as amazing as Barack Obama. He truly is the leader we need, but not the one we deserve.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

It won't swing the election, because it just reinforces the ideas everyone already has (whether rightly or wrongly).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Wow.. not to get too political but this may swing the election.

A period of silence on your part would be welcome.

[Blair]

Why did I expect that Atlas would react normally to this issue?

[MK]

Anyone find it odd that the FBI was Johnny on the spot soon as things went down?    They were wacthing this guy imo ,but probably not given the green light to scoop him up from Administration.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The main difference is that far-right terrorist usual don't swear allegiance to some organisation, they seem to take pride in the fact, that they're lone wolves.

More of an emphasis on the idea of the individual's will and so on in their propaganda I suppose.

They're also less likely to realise that trying to buy explosives over the internet is a bit stupid.

[DrScholl]

There are some sick people. 50 people are dead and all some people are worried about is protecting guns. It's more difficult to obtain permits to open a business than it is to get a gun, so it's clear that we have a real problem that needs to be addressed.

And it doesn't matter who the shooter pledged allegiance to. It would be just as bad if he was a viewer of the 700 Club.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Why did I expect that Atlas would react normally to this issue?

I didn't. Not without a reason it appears.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

For what it's worth, I think more attackers might come out of the woodwork. The LA and Orlando incidents have no apparent connection, which is what makes this so scary. Several Lone Wolves might be out there, each unaware of the other, and their only common connection being contact with some figure in ISIS.

[MK]

There are some sick people. 50 people are dead and all some people are worried about is protecting guns. It's more difficult to obtain permits to open a business than it is to get a gun, so it's clear that we have a real problem that needs to be addressed.

And it doesn't matter who the shooter pledged allegiance to. It would be just as bad if he was a viewer of the 700 Club.

Yeah because of course liberals want to take away my rights,but allow radicalized Muslims intent on killing americans into the country no questions asked.

Disarm me and allow the bad guys to come on in.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Remember organizations like ISIS loves to claim any credit, whether deservedly or not.

Just a reminded.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Shootings like this really, really hit home when it's your social community that is the victim of the attack.

I here you.  Way worse than corralling a six year old into a corner with their friends at school and shooting them in the face.

The Islamic state is now taking responsibility for this attack.

Wow.. not to get too political but this may swing the election.

Nothing like 50 dead homosexuals to motivate the fundies to turn out at the polls.

Possibly another self radicalized Muslim .  

One of the reasons I hate going to clubs is they insist on disarmament.  I never feel comfortable in these situations.

Yeah fewer Muslims and more guns would prevent something like this from happening every again... or at least greatly reduce the likelihood.

Guys these mass shootings are terrible.  It doesn't matter who the victims are nor who the shooter is.  The only common theme is America is awash in guns and innocents are dying left and right.  The one thing that is at every one of these crime scenes is a gun.  We can ignore the gun and pray for our own little community and attack whatever religion/race/ideology we don't like but that won't solve the problem.

[Mr. Reactionary]

There are some sick people. 50 people are dead and all some people are worried about is protecting restricting guns.

We should instead be focusing on the criminal and the victims.

[MK]

For what it's worth, I think more attackers might come out of the woodwork. The LA and Orlando incidents have no apparent connection, which is what makes this so scary. Several Lone Wolves might be out there, each unaware of the other, and their only common connection being contact with some figure in ISIS.

Sleeper cells.  Honestly, i feel like these attacks occur every few months on certain events.   I think they are testing our reactions and seeing our weaknesses.      Imagine if they got a small nuclear weapon