The South will rise again.
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 08:19:37 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  The South will rise again.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21
Author Topic: The South will rise again.  (Read 28315 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #475 on: March 26, 2019, 12:48:52 AM »

Quote
1. All present healthcare exchanges are abolished as of January 1, 2018.
2. Three new exchanges will be created and administered by the Health & Human Services (H&HS) Sub-Department, within the Department of Internal Affairs, with jurisdictions matching those of the three Regions. The H&HS Sub-Department will coordinate with regional officials during the setup and implementation process, and hand over administration and regulation of the new exchanges on January 1, 2018, to the respective Regional Government
3. All Federal restrictions on the access to these markets will be abolished as of January 1, 2018, including but not limited to the sale of insurance across regional lines.
4. On that date, the Regions will become the primary regulator of access onto their market and responsible for determining the nature and structure of healthcare providers allowed onto the exchange to compete, provided all terms of this act and federal law are complied with.
5. Should a region’s legislature fail to act by the above date, the H&HS Sub-Department will continue to administer the exchange until such time as the Regional Government is able to assume control.

Great. The issue for me is having to cover things that I don't think ought to be covered. Regional insurance is better than federal stuff, but it honestly doesn't matter if the regionals are still forcing us to cover things like puberty blockers, etc.

You know ever since Jbrase suggested it and I picked up the push to bring back regional parties successfully, I have envisioned the Regional level Parties having a great role in the battles that occur at the regional level. I envisioned the Federalist Party has being a guardian nationally that brought together a pro-region coalition. People would vote for downsize the Federal Government, people who would block attempts to usurp regional authority and would general protect and preserve the right for regions to make their own decisions.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Federalist Party Platform was designed around that basis, a similar basis to how PiT designed the RPP. That means there are people who are not "traditional conservatives" in the Federalist Party. My expectation was that pro-market regional level party's like the Southern Liberty Coalition would fill the vacuum and push for less spending, market based solutions at the regional level, fight it out with the left to ensure market competition on the exchanges and/or even opt out of Atlascare (The South actually did opt-out).

I didn't make too much of an issue about it in terms of betraying our values when AZ as I recall tried to repeal Paygo (Though I did raise hell and blocked the attempt on a policy basis, you can bet your ass on that one), or when Fhtagn raised the Carbon tax and so forth. Ironically, both were violations of our platform, but at the end of the day, what I care about is the downsizing of the Federal government, the transfer of powers to the regions that rightfully belong to them and safeguarding the checks and balances that protect their powers and the liberties of the people.

If a pro-regional socialist wants to help advance that agenda, as far as I am concerned, they are a conservative when it comes the power of the Federal government relative to the regions. Would I oppose and disagree with them when it came time to actually implement their agenda at the regional level, yes! And I have. I have done so on guns, on health care and on many other issues.

But in terms of the national focus, in terms of manning the front lines in the battlefield against centralism and centralization of power, which yes is and has always been my priority. Such people are fragment, tiny percentage of the Party. Most are standard conservatives, who agree largely on the need to control spending, protect our constitution (including right to bear arms) and the unborn.

Back when ASV was here the first time and he pushed to try and encourage the Federal Gov't to act on certain things, including guns, I and many others pushed back hard on that being contrary to our party's philosophy and he left. I have not heard of him pushing the same since returning.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #476 on: March 26, 2019, 01:04:57 AM »

Quote
Walk into your wheelhouse? More like walk into mine. I know very well about Peter Stolypin, and his policies, and yes they were working and yes they were cut short by his assassination. Do you know why he was assassinated though, for the same reason Alexander II was.

This is speculation. He had over 10 assassination attempts prior to the one that killed him. Stolypin had a lot of enemies. Asserting that he was assassinated by revolutionaries or the Bolsheviks is not something that we can confidently assert.

Saying that we should not try to fix a broken system because you might get assassinated by those who benefit under the present system is no different then telling Lincoln that he should not have signed the emancipation proclamation.

Didn't say we shouldn't fix things Ben, that is precisely my point. Revolutionaries don't want things fixed by reasonable people because it lets the winds out of the sail of the revolution. They want the kettle to be super heated so it boils over, and the resulting chaos is how they take power.

And you are right, it is a theory of mine that I think has merit but it could have easily been reactionary elements also. Even if it was though, they ended up serving the interests of the Revolutionaries and the Bolsheviks, whether they intended to help them or not, again by allowing the kettle to boil over and the system to collapse.

Quote
I never said Laissez faire was the culprit behind the revolution. The war, government incompetence and societal collapse because of those problems were the cause of the revolution.

Then you need to stop tarring laissez faire with a revolution that they had nothing to do with (on either side), and a revolution that laissez faire (and laissez faire alone), could have solved. Stolypin and his reforms were succeeding. The Communists eliminated them in 1920.

If a gov't official is actively implementing an market based system with Gov't policy, is it really lassiez faire? There is a difference between Free Market, Capitalism, and Lassiez-Faire, all three mean something different.

I never said Lassiez Faire caused the Bolshevik Revolution, I said that Soviet KGB (decades later) in the 1960's was actively encouraging the spread of libertarian economic thought because they thought (THEY THOUGHT) it would help cause chaos, piss people off and cause them to look towards socialism for answer.

Young people today are becoming socialists in record numbers because of the instability in the economy caused by an unregulated financial sector. Some sectors need regulation. I will fight to the death against regulation in most any sector, especially the railroads. But when it comes to finance, you need some basic disclosure, accountability, and limits and the size and reach of a single firm. Very easy to slide down the slippery slope to corporatism with a monopolitistic banking sector, and I opposed Dodd-Frank because it was too complex even while support Glass-Steagal. Dodd-Frank has regulatory capture written all over it.

Quote
What I said was that Communists love having extremes on the opposite side as foils. Nazi Germany comes to mind. The same goes for the USSR and Randian academic thought, because they "Soviet Intelligence" believed that if they succeeded in deregulating the economy and especially finance, it would lead to excesses of poverty, recession and decline of society, that would create the backdrop for a successful revolution.

Uh, the National Socialists were not foils anymore than the Mensheviks were foils for the Bolsheviks. The truth is that Communism does need a foil, but that if the Communists don't have a natural foil that they will create one. Which is why you see divides between Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, Trotskyites and Stalinists.

Hitler and Stalin both used each other as foils to justify their actions until the Non-Aggression Pact was signed in 1939.


Quote
I would point out the record levels of support for socialism we are seeing today, which is a direct result of the recession, which in turn was caused in part by deregulation of Mortgage Backed Securities in the 1990's.

Right, and has nothing to do with the fact that most children in school are taught everything about socialism. Looking at the curriculum, the only surprise is that we have some children who aren't socialist. Hammer it into them for fifteen years and we are surprised when they exit with socialist ideals?

Among the more astute maybe, but I will tell you for a fact, most of the average people (ie people who don't come on this website), don't pay attention to history or politics. I get to be that nerd who face palms every time someone twists something you say into someone stupid, sexual or otherwise mind numbing.

What is making these types socialist isn't indoctrination, it is the economy and lack of opportunity, internet chat boards stoking extremism of all stripes and peer pressure.

Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #477 on: March 26, 2019, 01:32:50 AM »

Quote
Federal deficit not regional.

And? We still have Feds pushing for deficits.

And I think it is disingenuous to push a real life model as superior, when it has trillion dollar deficits and keeps adding to it. We made a decision to two years ago to enact paygo, over the objections of some of the people now in the ACP and this made very bill have to be funded or killed because it couldn't be funded. This has enabled us to stop the bleeding and start reducing the deficit by going back and funding programs, by eliminating and consolidating those we don't need and by growing the economy as well.

Is there more work to be done, yes, but I never said it wouldn't be hard and wouldn't take time.

Quote
I know of almost no federalists who is seriously pushing for single payer at the national level. I also know of two feds that are/were working to implement market competition on the Lincoln exchange. It is unfair to cherry pick things you don't like and write off the hard work of others as chopped liver.

Almost (!) = none. I know a former president of Atlasia who served as a Federalist, who as a Federalist pushed for single payer.

DFW? He sat back and let me dictate health care policy, hardly "pushing it". Roll Eyes Tongue
 
Quote
I don't know what you are talking about. We passed a law easing constraints curriculum, called "Return Education to the Regions", that was sponsored by a member of another party initially. Perhaps you are writing that off because of personal issues with one of the original sponsors in question, Peebs.

It doesn't matter how you divide things up so long as they are teaching the same things. Having regional clones doesn't address (and in fact bypasses) fundamental freedoms on education, like Charter Schools and Homeschooling.


I support homeschooling and fought TNF for years to protect it, as did the Federalists in the Senate at the time. Again, not sure what you are talking about it.

Quote
How is letting the regions decide their drug policies, forcing anything?

The fact that any restrictions on the drug policies would be shut down by the federal laws. As for the policy of the Federalists, it was a Federalist President that pushed for laws supporting legalization of cocaine and heroin. Where are folks who don't want to see any drugs at all supposed to go?

You made it quite clear that you support hard drugs being legal. Fine. Why then are you surprised when socons decide that they are unhappy with a party like this?

Politics is about setting priorities and building a coalition that can win around those priorities, it is not about "I get everything I want". For many years any kind of conservatism existing at all on any basis was an accomplishment in itself and winning a Presidential election was pure fantasy. Federalists prioritized the social issues of life and guns because those we could achieve progress on, and we did.

Quote
So all of the hard work that Mr. Reactionary, Lt, myself and others have put into passing Dumb regulations Repeals is meaningless because one regulation went the other way on your pet issue of hating LGBT people? 

And this is why you have lost people like me. This is no different than Hillary calling people who disagree with her as deplorables. Puberty blockers are no different than injecting your child with poison. They render a child, who is not capable of making the decision, sterile. They will destroy their ability to function normally and they are irreversible.

And yet, because of an agenda that demands that all kneel to it, it is not only legal but paid for by our taxpayer dollars. And we have the leader of the Federalists demanding that we kneel to the policy too.

The natural response to this madness is to simply leave the party and go our own way. Puberty blockers are horrible from a medical standpoint and horrible from a psychological standpoint. We have an obligation to protect children from malicious human experimentation, particularly that which has already been shown to have deleterious effects.

And you are going to stand here and label my stance as hate. Wow. I guess you've really drank the Woka Cola.


I have never demanded you kneel to anything Ben. In fact the reason the ACP exists right now is because I didn't force ASV to kneel enough, even though he gave up on centralism, gave up on guns, etc. It wasn't enough. Nobody would ever give me what I asked, the concrete steps for him to correct his ways issue wise. I asked Fhtagn that very same question, she left the server. Instead, I got endless complaints about him with no concrete recommendations to follow and then get mad at me for not doing enough. This is same line that Lumine aggravated me with for so long about the need to do things different, but never any concrete answers.

I am a methodical person, if you want something happened, give me the basis for the problem and the concrete steps to correct it, especially if I ask directly. This has never happened in any such instance where the Federalist Party has had a blow up in the last two years.

Expulsion was illegal until very recently. You might say, don't endorse him, well how can I force no one out of 80 people to not endorse someone? If you don't want someone endorsed, challenge them in a primary that was the most logical answer I could come up with and I said it then, but no that requires people to do more than just complain and put unreasonable demands on other people to address their problems. I find it especially galling when many of these complaints are being voiced by certain people whose own deviations from the platform run long enough to make it oose maroon labor red.

I will say this Ben, I do have a lot of respect for you even though I disagree with you on a few issues and more generally on strategy, priorities and tactics. I actually think that ACP would be better off if you had decided to stay in this game, because I would much rather be hashing out political issues here on the AFE board with you, than the pesonality driven bs that dominates discord.

Logged
FairBol
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,807
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #478 on: March 26, 2019, 07:53:38 PM »

Hello All!

I wanted to wait before doing so, but I guess this is the best time now.

Some of you have wondered why I came back after six months away. I want to thank fhtagn for inviting me back.

However, I am not going to stay. My real life commitments have not abated. Before I go, I have some important business.

First off, I want to transfer leadership of the ACP officially to fhtagn. It is her party and the party will reflect whatever policies she and the rest of you have chosen to implement. I am rather touched that so many of you have chosen to revive the ACP. I would not have dreamed such a thing.

You really brought a smile to my face. Thank you all of you, particularly Mr. R, fhtagn, and PiT.

I also want to thank Yankee again. You have helped me many times in the past. You are a good man, and I wish you the best of your endeavours.

I will still try to reply to inquiries made in my box, but I am not going to be, nor planning to be active in running for office again.

Thank you all for your consideration!

Godspeed.

Have you officially de-registered yet? I was going to look into your case (being that the Southern Region seems to be a party to it), but if you don't intend to stay, the point is moot. 
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #479 on: April 17, 2019, 05:54:57 AM »

Quote
Have you officially de-registered yet? I was going to look into your case (being that the Southern Region seems to be a party to it), but if you don't intend to stay, the point is moot.  

At present I have no desire to de register. I also do not plan on returning to the CoD so I will just be a peasant again.

I think the case should be resolved on its own merits as it will come up again with other members.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #480 on: April 17, 2019, 05:56:54 AM »

Quote
Back when ASV was here the first time and he pushed to try and encourage the Federal Gov't to act on certain things, including guns, I and many others pushed back hard on that being contrary to our party's philosophy and he left. I have not heard of him pushing the same since returning.

Yes, the Federalists have been quite strong on guns. No issues there. Healthcare the record has been mixed. Some good, some bad.
Logged
Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)
Muaddib
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,024
Australia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #481 on: April 17, 2019, 06:07:36 AM »

Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #482 on: April 17, 2019, 06:09:15 AM »

Quote
If a gov't official is actively implementing an market based system with Gov't policy, is it really lassiez faire? There is a difference between Free Market, Capitalism, and Lassiez-Faire, all three mean something different.

I would argue based on the content and intent of Stolypin's reforms that they were laissez faire, and needed the backing of the state due to the Mir. Collectivization could only be reversed through government intervention.

Quote
I never said Lassiez Faire caused the Bolshevik Revolution, I said that Soviet KGB (decades later) in the 1960's was actively encouraging the spread of libertarian economic thought because they thought (THEY THOUGHT) it would help cause chaos, piss people off and cause them to look towards socialism for answer.

Interesting comment. I have nothing further to add.

Quote
Young people today are becoming socialists in record numbers because of the instability in the economy caused by an unregulated financial sector. Some sectors need regulation. I will fight to the death against regulation in most any sector, especially the railroads. But when it comes to finance, you need some basic disclosure, accountability, and limits and the size and reach of a single firm. Very easy to slide down the slippery slope to corporatism with a monopolitistic banking sector, and I opposed Dodd-Frank because it was too complex even while support Glass-Steagal. Dodd-Frank has regulatory capture written all over it.

You are quite wrong. The root of the instability at present has quite a bit to do with fiscal policy but it isn't because of the lack of regulations, but rather the excess of regulations. Currently the way the market works is that it is very tough to break into, as competition is regulated away and oligarchies have formed in many American industries. American fiscal policy is geared towards cheap debt and debt slavery, with low interest rates coupled with fewer opportunities.

The solution to the problems is deregulation, not more regulation. The state protects the price of houses because it collects taxes on the purported value of the houses, not their actual market value. Falls in housing prices will reduce the taxes paid to the state so the state has a vested interest in the maintenance of housing prices. This is why there are so many subsidies for mortgages, and why lenders were regulated into providing more and cheaper credit for buyers who were not otherwise qualified. This had the effect in the temporary expansion of the housing market, but because it was not based on the strength of the economy, this increased instability in the long term as these houses came back into foreclosure.

The best turnaround for the American economy would be to eliminate regulations, cutting taxes and spending to pay down the debt and letting the market take advantage of these actions. We saw this in 1920 under Mellon. We haven't seen it in the American economy since. The 1950s had demographic and competitive advantages that the US does not possess today.  
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #483 on: April 17, 2019, 06:22:52 AM »

Quote
And I think it is disingenuous to push a real life model as superior, when it has trillion dollar deficits and keeps adding to it. We made a decision to two years ago to enact paygo, over the objections of some of the people now in the ACP and this made very bill have to be funded or killed because it couldn't be funded. This has enabled us to stop the bleeding and start reducing the deficit by going back and funding programs, by eliminating and consolidating those we don't need and by growing the economy as well.

True. Work has been done to reduce the problems, but the point of being a conservative is to work towards the ultimate solution. Deficits can be eliminated.

Is there more work to be done, yes, but I never said it wouldn't be hard and wouldn't take time.

Quote
DFW? He sat back and let me dictate health care policy, hardly "pushing it".   

Meanwhile I had to put out papers explaining why this was a bad idea. Again, he was not only a Federalist but our president for awhile. Part of the frustration stems from bad policy being pushed out by a few prominent folks within the Federalist party, while the rest of us had to clean up their messes.
 
Quote
I support homeschooling and fought TNF for years to protect it, as did the Federalists in the Senate at the time. Again, not sure what you are talking about it.

You did, sure, which is why my beef isn't with you but with other party members who sought and seek to reduce it.

Quote
Politics is about setting priorities and building a coalition that can win around those priorities, it is not about "I get everything I want".

Given that we have five parties that support drugs, I think there should be at least one that does not.

Quote
For many years any kind of conservatism existing at all on any basis was an accomplishment in itself and winning a Presidential election was pure fantasy. Federalists prioritized the social issues of life and guns because those we could achieve progress on, and we did.

Agreed, and in office I happily did the same. That doesn't mean that then is now though or that a party that is opposed to pot and hard drugs is electorally untenable given the political climate of today. We don't expect the Federalists to take up that mantle, but I can't see why the ACP should not be able to do so.

Quote
I have never demanded you kneel to anything Ben.

Hagrid did and so did TM. So this is hardly a new issue between me and the federalists in particular.

Quote
the concrete steps for him to correct his ways issue wise.

I have given you concrete steps that you have chosen not to undertake with Young Texan. You could have asked him to resign his position in the House at the time. There are ways to discipline folks without kicking them out of the party. Complaining that concrete actions weren't given to you when you have chosen not to take said actions when they are politically inconvenient is a demonstration of priorities, which is also why I left and why I am happy now.

I don't expect the Federalist party to sacrifice it's electoral viability for me, but I am also not going to stay with a party that doesn't protect me. Thus, me joining the ACP is the best solution for all involved.

Quote
I am a methodical person, if you want something happened, give me the basis for the problem and the concrete steps to correct it, especially if I ask directly. This has never happened in any such instance where the Federalist Party has had a blow up in the last two years.

You received concrete actions from me and chose not to undertake them.

Quote
I will say this Ben, I do have a lot of respect for you even though I disagree with you on a few issues and more generally on strategy, priorities and tactics. I actually think that ACP would be better off if you had decided to stay in this game, because I would much rather be hashing out political issues here on the AFE board with you, than the pesonality driven bs that dominates discord.

I was happy as the ACP leader and working with you. I think that was a very productive time for both of us. But my life has changed to the point where I have to focus on other things. I want to get married, and thus the Atlas will take on a smaller role. It may come and is likely to come fairly soon where I won't be on at all.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #484 on: August 15, 2019, 06:03:48 PM »
« Edited: August 15, 2019, 06:43:42 PM by IDS Ex-Speaker Ben Kenobi »

Speech! Speech!



Well, I have to say this wasn't something I expected to see. I've been quite happy sitting out in the ranch and enjoying my retirement from Atlasian politics. It seems like YoungTexan has gotten himself in a bit of a sticky wicket.

I'm not sure why. The purpose of this game is that people can vote on things and people and see them enacted. We've had all manner of rather radical and poorly thought out votes which have succeeded, some of which have been very deleterious to the game. Some of which also attracted considerable controversy.

However, sirs, it's the liberals ox that is being gored today. Ohoho! We can't have that you see. Progress is like a millstone, it only grinds one way. You can't lift it up or turn the crank the other way and have it be 'democratic', or the 'will of the people'. Oh no. The people all know what is best for them and it's a good thing that we have people like our erstwhile Bliar to tell them what they ought to believe or think.

We are, at least last I checked, a representative democracy. What that means is that many of us, once elected, are, theoretically, representing a wide swathe of views and constituents, many of whom share opinions that are not our own. One could make the argument that this means that one must often vote against one's own personal conscience because that is what the will of the people that you represent want.

Now, I haven't even shrunk away from controversy, but I knew and understood my role was to be a voice for people who otherwise weren't getting much respect, recognition, and yes, representation. That means supporting their beliefs and working hard to see that things get passed and that they feel heard and respected.

There's that word again, respect. When's the last time you ever heard a liberal saying that they respect you? Probably just before he raises your taxes and claims that it's for your own benefit. I suppose he'd also tell you that the piss running down your leg is because it's raining.

Now, if you talk to Bliar, or any of them, they'll tell you that we've 'moved beyond' racism into a world in which the only racists are the same Southern Whites who never owned slaves, never owned their own land, who worked damn hard for a living and never got a break. Why is it always that the sins of the world have to be visited on you? Only somethng like the 1 percent, the 2 percent actually owned slaves, many of these were northerners who came to the south because of the ownership. Apparently, money talks more than democracy. Why should the 1 and the 2 percent, especially in the party supposedly representing the working man, speak for you?

People ask me about the southern flag. I often ask them. "Why do you think that the stars and bars is a saltire cross of St. Andrew and St. Patrick? Crickets. Why is it the blue and the white on the field of red? Crickets. They couldn't explain the heraldry but they damn sure know that it's racist. Well, that's because it represents the Scots (in St. Andrew's cross), and the Irish (in St. Patrick). In opposition to the Crown which has the cross of St. George later emblazoned by the same crosses in a similar manner.

The south was largely settled and ran by the Scotch and the Irish and the Stars and Bars represents that and represents them. Rather than a flag of racism it is a core part of Southern culture. But I guess we'll have to let Bliar explains what it really means, "white nationalism". But ask Bliar if he supports Black Lives Matter, and he'll bend over and tell you that he's woke af.

So why is it that every other culture every other region can be proud of their heritage and not the South? And not white people? Because some white people did bad things in the past? Sins aren't specific to the white man, and to say that is no different than the racism that northerners are apparently immune from due to the contribution of those who died decades before their ancestors came to the country. We do have a term for that, stolen glory. Why should those who immigrated in the 20th century get credit for the sacrifices of the 19th?

In any case I'm sorry I didn't see the bill. I would have gladly voted for it. I'm surprised the proponents didn't contact me beforehand. I am happy to see that the South is rising once again.

God bless all of you!
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #485 on: September 20, 2019, 12:09:12 AM »

I just wanted to reply to Lumine here, since I'm not permitted to actually speak my case here.

Quote
Your case opens up accusing the RG of "personal animosity" (a case that is on shaky ground at best).

Opinion.

Quote
You going out of your way to refer to her by the incorrect gender pronouns is, actually, a very obvious case of "personal animosity."

Opinion.

Quote
It is therefore relevant to the case as it paints it as hypocritical and most likely charged with personal bias. I doubt you would be so eager to get rid of the RG if they were, say, Wulfric.

Even if both of your presuppositions were true, the conclusion does not follow. That would be like saying that the plaintiff's behavior were relevant to the outcome of the case. That's obviously not true. Say someone was known for being a ne'er do well, and had spent some time in jail. If someone else assaulted him on the street, would that mean that the assault on him was justified? No.

It is yours, Peebs, and quite a few other people's 'opinion' that calling people by a different pronoun constitutes prima facie hatred. But that assumes a few things.

One, you're imputing motivation. If someone sincerely believes that x is true, and they express that x is true, is it necessarily so that when they state that x is true that they intend animosity?

That's where you've missed the plot.

If a commie states to me that he believes Capitalism oppresses the people, I don't regard that as a personal opinion charged against me. Why, because I know it has nothing at all to do with me personally, but everything to do with the state of his beliefs.

Quote
(Also "facts, not feelings" is bullsh!t. In no way is that synonymous with "sound, intelligent reasoning" to disregard other people, and frankly such a paradigm should be understood as much more synonymous with "sociopathic behavior.")

Facts, not feelings *is* very important in court. We might want people to do xyz but that does not make it right to compel them to do xyz under force of Law.

But what do I know? Apparently I'm just one of those libertarians...
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #486 on: September 20, 2019, 01:02:26 AM »

Go back to your moose commune, Justin.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #487 on: September 20, 2019, 01:42:33 AM »

Quote
"Did you ever hear such innocent prattle?" said its father. And one person whispered to another what the child had said, "He hasn't anything on. A child says he hasn't anything on."
"But he hasn't got anything on!" the whole town cried out at last.

The Emperor shivered, for he suspected they were right. But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all.
Logged
President of the civil service full of trans activists
Peebs
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,926
United States



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #488 on: October 04, 2019, 10:45:27 PM »

Logged
Goldwater
Republitarian
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,063
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.55, S: -4.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #489 on: October 04, 2019, 10:55:03 PM »

Logged
Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)
Muaddib
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,024
Australia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #490 on: October 05, 2019, 06:48:55 AM »

The right to freedom of expression should be absolute.
What do you define as hate speech? Do people have the right to say whatever they want? What if anything should government, society and other individuals do to prevent, respond to and or combat hate speech?

"Hate speech" can be and is interpreted in a few different ways depending on who you ask. I'm not gonna bother trying to come up with a definition for it, because the right to free speech should be absolute, no buts and no matter how hateful or offensive it may be. Sure, there are plenty of things people would be better off not saying, but unless actual crimes are committed there's no reason to restrict it.
I agree with Representative MB 100%.

Reopening old wounds however isn't necessarily the best course of action. Sometimes one should let sleeping dogs lie.

Quote from:  1 Corinthians 10:23 (New International Version)
"I have the right to do anything," you say--but not everything is beneficial. "I have the right to do anything"--but not everything is constructive.

I don't expect to win anyone over. But people really need to harden up a little. You will never get along with everyone. Maybe not responding to sh!t might be the best course of action in some cases. Maybe you can say "okay so and so is a 'so and so', and therefore because so and so is a 'so and so' they can just be a 'so and so' I don't give a flying continental what they say."

Now i'm sure I've offended everyone who want to read into what I've just written as some kind of personal attack or whatever, they are the ones who are looking to be offended. I am not here to police speech. I am here to play a game.

I've seen Fhtagn called a C-Bomb. You know what? She doesn't give a flying continental. She's got more personal resilience than 90% of the blokes and most likely every woman in this game.



Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #491 on: October 05, 2019, 09:52:27 AM »

You're southern speaker, Muaddib. What have you done to assist one of your constituents with his ballot issues?

Did you ever PM said constituent? Did you ever make an attempt to resolve the issue to everyone's satisfaction?

Or did you just sit there with your thumb up your butt? This is what's called, 'accountability'. I know you're not happy that I'm not just giving you a pass and electing you because well, "you're apparently on my team".

You didn't vote to put me back on the ballot, so why on earth should I make the effort to put you on said ballot?

I figure that since you did nothing for six months that warrants me treating your sudden "interest" in me the same way.

You might not think that's right or fair, but that's on you, not me.
Logged
fhtagn
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,521
Vatican City State


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #492 on: October 05, 2019, 10:31:59 AM »
« Edited: October 05, 2019, 10:35:24 AM by The C Word »

tfw Ben doesn't realize that the only people that could have resolved his ballot issues would be the Supreme Court, and a lawsuit should have been filed as soon as his registration wasn't where he intended.

That's not entirely his fault, there's a couple other people to blame as well:
1. ASV for being annoying and making a big deal out of something that was edited within 5 minutes and literally no one cared about.
2. Peebs for knowing she had the authority to allow the intended registration and choosing not to simply to piss Ben off (which there is a significant amount of evidence to back)


Southern regional officials cannot do anything about federal registration. You know this, Ben. But for some reason you choose to ignore this fact. At the federal level, the most Congress can do is pass a bill after the fact to allow your situation to be resolved in the future. Sure, there was a clause for Congress to override the SoFE and change your registration, but you can blame the left for choosing not to do so, since it was on them to ensure that could pass.

So that brings it back to my first point. The only way you could have resolved this was bring it to the Supreme Court at the time your registration was not filed the way you intended. Not 6 months later when you fixed it, and not in a way that focuses on the gender of the SoFE. Whether you see Peebs as male or female is irrelevant, and not something I'm particularly interested in arguing about. However, there was no reason to go on about it when it wasn't relevant to your case. I told you this numerous times, and you kept pressing it anyway. 
Logged
Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)
Muaddib
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,024
Australia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #493 on: October 05, 2019, 11:38:25 AM »

You're southern speaker, Muaddib. What have you done to assist one of your constituents with his ballot issues?

Did you ever PM said constituent? Did you ever make an attempt to resolve the issue to everyone's satisfaction?

Or did you just sit there with your thumb up your butt? This is what's called, 'accountability'. I know you're not happy that I'm not just giving you a pass and electing you because well, "you're apparently on my team".

You didn't vote to put me back on the ballot, so why on earth should I make the effort to put you on said ballot?

I figure that since you did nothing for six months that warrants me treating your sudden "interest" in me the same way.

You might not think that's right or fair, but that's on you, not me.

Ben, I have no wish to get in a public slanging match. I've DM you. We're both blokes. We don't need to air our proverbial dirty laundry out in public. I'll be happy to have a robust discussion via DM. Fair enough?
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #494 on: September 11, 2020, 02:03:57 AM »
« Edited: September 11, 2020, 02:12:06 AM by IDS Ex-Speaker Ben Kenobi »



Well, well, well. It seems like pretty much everything I've warned about has come to pass. We've got the crazy left destroying all the statues from everyone they consider racist including the founders of this country.

Yes, sir, there's nothing like being patriotic by posting methods to topple the monuments erected in honour of Washington and Abraham Lincoln! Obviously a HUGE racist. Of course, you need not point out that destroying monuments just because they depict white people is racist in and of itself, but that's another matter entirely.

Next we have the whole Burn, Loot, Murder movement... oh wait, Black Lives Matter. I'm sorry. I got a bit carried away there... with all the peaceful protesting that's been going down here. Can't say I've seen anything like it since '68. Only this time they are trying to burn down other people's neighborhoods rather than their own.

In any case, folks are probably wondering why I've decided to give this another shot. Well, why not? It's obvious that the solution to radical lefties is even more radical lefties.  Because this time communism just might work.

From what I can see the Left believes that if they steamroll all the opposition that they can finally have their one true utopia where everyone thinks the same. Well. all I have to say is they need to hold on.

We're not done yet. Smiley

All I can offer is the same as always, to roll up the sleeves and get back to work again. Smiley Looking forward to setting things to the Right once more.

Yessir, there's a new sheriff and he needs his deputy!

God bless each and every one of you! Smiley
Logged
Dr. MB
MB
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,813
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #495 on: September 11, 2020, 02:06:17 AM »



Well, well, well. It seems like pretty much everything I've warned about has come to pass. We've got the crazy left destroying all the statues from everyone they consider racist including the founders of this country.

Yes, sir, there's nothing like being patriotic by posting methods to topple the monuments erected in honour of Washington and Abraham Lincoln! Obviously a HUGE racist. Of course, you need not point out that destroying monuments just because they depict white people is racist in and of itself, but that's another matter entirely.

Next we have the whole Burn, Loot, Murder movement... oh wait, Black Lives Matter. I'm sorry. I got a bit carried away there... with all the peaceful protesting that's been going down here. Can't say I've seen anything like it since '68. Only this time they are trying to burn down other people's neighborhoods rather than their own.

In any case, folks are probably wondering why I've decided to give this another shot. Well, why not? It's obvious that the solution to radical lefties is even more radical lefties.  Because this time communism just might work.

From what I can see the Left believes that if they steamroll all the opposition that they can finally have their one true utopia where everyone thinks the same. Well. all I have to say is they need to hold on.

We're not done yet. Smiley

All I can offer is the same as always, to roll up the sleeves and get back to work again. Smiley Looking forward to setting things to the Right once more.

God bless each and every one of you! Smiley
You might want to have a talk with Jessica. There's finally someone in the game that will agree with you 99% of the time. I've got a feeling y'all will like each other.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #496 on: September 11, 2020, 03:08:15 AM »

Glad to see some new faces in the game.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #497 on: September 11, 2020, 11:43:45 AM »

Don't violate the TOS this time.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #498 on: September 11, 2020, 09:49:01 PM »

Yes, imagine a world where referring to Marx was censored.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #499 on: October 23, 2022, 02:51:28 AM »

Howdy, ya'll. Just passing through. I hope all of you are doing your blessed best in these difficult times.

Just wanted to give a shoutout to some old friends like Yankee, and PiT, and fhtagn. Thanks for looking out for me. I appreciate the invites to return, but life's sorta been in the way in a good way.

God bless each and every one of you! Smiley
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.08 seconds with 11 queries.