Southern Regional Committee

[NeverAgain]

He really should've posted this here, too, but Yankee won't be available until super-late due to work.

When do you guys go to bed? If it's not after 1AM EDT then does Sunday work?

I'll be up then, but tomorrow is fine.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

I'm usually up then, but I don't mind delaying to Sunday. If we can't do it then, I agree with Leinad that we should be paid for our efforts.

[tmthforu94]

It seems like everyone is going to be up at that time, so let's plan to work on it a little then.

[NeverAgain]

It seems like everyone is going to be up at that time, so let's plan to work on it a little then.

Sounds good.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Channeling tmth for the chat.

[tmthforu94]

We are now discussing in #SouthernChat. Please feel free to join if you'd like to follow along!

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Principle vote transcript from #SouthernChat
22:40   Classic   Can we have a vote
22:40   NeverAgain   I agree, that's why we wanted to do this to get out all ideas.
22:40   Peebs   i wouldn't mind a vote
22:40   Leinad   Sure.
22:40   NeverAgain   I thirdly motion for a vote.
22:40   Leinad   Do we have the vote here or in the thread?
22:40   Tmth   Here
22:40   NeverAgain   Here
22:40   Classic   Ugh Clark is gone tm
22:40   NeverAgain   I have been taking notes
22:40   Classic   So no house activity again
22:41   Tmth   We'll just introduce a big amendment at the end, explain our reasonings, leave it open to some questions, then vote.
22:41   NeverAgain   Yep
22:41   Leinad   Okay, all members of the Committee can vote.
22:41   Leinad   PRINCIPLE VOTE
22:41   Peebs   i'll put the transcript in the src
22:41   Classic   
22:42   Leinad   Question: should the regional legislature be elected, at least in part, via districts?
22:42   NeverAgain   Instead, I have been taking notes on what we have voted and talked about
22:42   Leinad   [ ] Yes
22:42   NeverAgain   NAY
22:42   Leinad   [ ] No
22:42   NeverAgain   [X] No
22:42   Leinad   [X] YES
22:42   Peebs   [X] No
22:43   RichardIIIAngRex   X YES
22:43   dar   [X] Yes (#rulebreaker)
22:43   Tmth   [X] No
22:43   Classic   It fails
22:43   Peebs   the motion fails
22:43   Classic   Huzzah sorry Leinad
22:43   Leinad   With a vote of 2 in favor, and 3 opposed, the motion fails.
22:43   Leinad   
22:43   Leinad   Let the record show
22:43   Leinad   We tried!

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Principle Vote

23:04   Leinad   So, I suppose we shall have the vote, then.
23:05   Leinad   2, 3, or 4 options?
23:05   RichardIIIAngRex   I am ready
23:05   NeverAgain   2
23:05   dar   two (yes or no)
23:05   NeverAgain   Office or not
23:05   Classic   2 yes or no
23:05   dar   Most of the options are redundant
23:05   Peebs   2 (y/n) sounds nice
23:05   Leinad   Okay, agreed.
23:05   dar   considering the LG would basically just break ties and be first in line of succession
23:06   Leinad   PRINCIPLE VOTE
23:06   Leinad   Question: should the regional government have a Lieutenant Governor?
23:06   Leinad   [ ] YES
23:07   Leinad   [ ] NO
23:07   NeverAgain   [X] Nay/No
23:07   Peebs   [X] NO
23:07   dar   [X] Brexit
23:07   Tmth   {Nah}
23:07   RichardIIIAngRex   [X] YES
23:07   Peebs   fails 3-1-1
23:07   Leinad   [X] YES FTR
23:07   Classic   Fails
23:08   Peebs   wait i realized that was dar
23:08   Peebs   3-2
23:08   NeverAgain   Dissents were noted.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Not Another Principle Vote

23:10   NeverAgain   I motion for a Principle vote on the size of legislature
23:10   Tmth   seconded
23:10   NeverAgain   3, 4, or 5
23:10   Leinad   Seconded.
23:10   Leinad   *thirded
23:10   Peebs   fourthed
23:10   dar   eighththed
23:11   Leinad   Alright, that's more than a majority...
23:11   Peebs   sixteenthed
23:11   Leinad   PRINCIPLE VOTE
23:11   Leinad   Question: how many members should the legislature have?
23:11   Leinad   [ ] 3
23:11   Leinad   [ ] 4
23:11   Leinad   [ ] 5
23:11   NeverAgain   [X] 5
23:12   Leinad   [X] 5
23:12   RichardIIIAngRex   [X ] 5
23:12   Peebs   [X] 5
23:12   dar   [X] negative eleven
23:12   NeverAgain   5 Seats passes
23:12   Tmth   5
23:12   NeverAgain   tmth?
23:12   Tmth   What?
23:12   Peebs   unanimously!
23:12   dar   near unanimously, peebs

[tmthforu94]

To summarize what happened last night:
- We chose not to have districts, instead elected representatives at-large. The vote was 2-3, with Leinad and Yankee voting in favor of districts and NeverAgain, Peebs and myself voting against.
- We decided not have a Lieutenant Governor. he vote was 2-3, with Leinad and Yankee voting in favor of having a Lt. Governor and NeverAgain, Peebs and myself voting against.
- By a unanimous vote, it was decided to have 5 representatives.

While I think everyone agreed that districts would add an interesting element, concerns were brought up that it would be too complicated for the startup of the region, may lead to gerrymandering and would likely lead to a split chamber in most sessions, giving a potential Lt. Governor enormous power to be able to break ties. Once it was decided not to have districts, the majority felt that the Lt. Governor can become useless and we should minimize the number of positions. I stated that I think it is better for the region to start simple and work up, rather than the other way around.

Our next order of business is to discuss the Bill of Rights, Regional Name and Regional Capitol. Once those three are determined, we will move into a styling phase to make sure the final draft has proper grammar and no inconsistencies and loopholes. Our plan is to have the the final draft approved later this week.

[tmthforu94]

Here is the BoR that has been proposed, which is based off of the old Northeast BoR:

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You can view the old Mideast one here. The Mideast one is longer but seems to cover a lot of things already covered by the federal level. With that said, I would be fine with passing what has been proposed, but also OK with any additions people might have.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Sounds solid enough to me, I support.

[tmthforu94]

I'm going to get the ball rolling on another topic until there is more discussion on the BoR - our name.

The West has elected to name itself Fremont and the North is staying with North. Since we are the last to choose a name, this gives us a lot of power, because it is likely that whichever route we choose, the "odd man out" follow suit.

Personally, I have strong feelings that we should name ourselves "The South" or "The Southern Region" and then select a motto based off a famous southerner, similar to how Illinois is "The Land of Lincoln." While I understand the curiosity in naming the region after an individual, it is likely to be very confusing, especially for new members. Saying they live in, for example, Jefferson, isn't going to mean anything to them. However, telling them they live in the South gives them a pretty good idea of what the region looks like.  We could also have the person we select as an alternate name, but I strongly believe our primary name should be the Southern Region.

[tmthforu94]

Another point - regional capitol.

I spent some time on Google Maps to try and get a good calculation of what would be a good "centered" location, both population-wise and geographically. First, I measured from El Paso, TX to Washington D.C., which is roughly 30 hours. Memphis is close to being in the middle - it is just under 16 hours away from El Paso and 14 from Washington D.C. I did the same from Kansas City down to Miami - a 22 hour drive. From there, the most centered city I could find was Chattanooga.

Population-wise, the larger but of the region is in the southern portion, where the three most populous states are - Texas, Florida and Georgia.

Finally, I tried to look at the culture of each cities as well as the quality of airport and which would be best suited to host the region's capitol. Obviously this will be good for people who live in those regions to chime in. Atlanta has the best airport in the targeted area, while Nashville ranks in at 33 and Memphis doesn't qualify in the top 60 in terms of total traffic. Atlanta and Nashville have existing structures to host a capitol, while one would have to be built in Memphis (may be getting to technical here, but whatever).

After careful thought, here is how I would rate the options:
1. Nashville - Pretty centered, both population-wise and geographically, though could be better. Has existing structures to host the capitol and a decent airport. Good culture and plenty of space. Big city, but has a high crime rate.
2. Memphis - Probably has the best location, IMO. However, doesn't have the infrastructure that other options do, though that could also lead to a lot of job growth. 
3. Atlanta - has a great airport and infrastructure, but clearly the weakest in terms of location. Too far south - contemplated whether or not to even put it on my list.

Some of my information may be disagreeable, please weigh in! But based on about 30-minutes of research, I would say that Nashville is the most optimal option. Also the home of country music!

[tmthforu94]

I motion for a vote on the Bill of Rights, followed by nominations for a regional name and capitol.

[NeverAgain]

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My modifications.

[tmthforu94]

I fully support NeverAgain's amendment.

[Classic Conservative]

Could you describe the freedom of movement portion of the bill of rights, NeverAgain.

[NeverAgain]

Could you describe the freedom of movement portion of the bill of rights, NeverAgain.

Sure! I believe that anyone should be allowed the freedom of movement: Freedom of movement, mobility rights, or the right to travel is a human rights concept encompassing the right of individuals to travel from place to place within the region of the South, and to be able to leave the country and return to it. The right includes not only visiting places, but changing the place where the individual resides or works.

Each citizen must be allowed to change their place of living status within their region or around the world, and I believe that this should be a part of their Bill of Rights.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

I fully support NeverAgain's amendment.

[NeverAgain]

I make a motion for a Principle Vote on the Amended Bill of Rights.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

I second.

[Classic Conservative]

Could you describe the freedom of movement portion of the bill of rights, NeverAgain.

Sure! I believe that anyone should be allowed the freedom of movement: Freedom of movement, mobility rights, or the right to travel is a human rights concept encompassing the right of individuals to travel from place to place within the region of the South, and to be able to leave the country and return to it. The right includes not only visiting places, but changing the place where the individual resides or works.

Each citizen must be allowed to change their place of living status within their region or around the world, and I believe that this should be a part of their Bill of Rights.

 
Thank You! I thought when, I read the admendment it was about open borders and issues like that.

[Leinad]

I make a motion for a Principle Vote on the Amended Bill of Rights.

Actually, since a majority of us (at least 4 counting me) support your amendment, I think we're good to let it pass without a principle vote being necessary.


Now, to the name and the capitol! I'll have more thoughts on the latter, but there are basically 4 ways we can go with the region's name:

1. Boring but simple ("The South")

2. Variation on the geographic name (e.g. "Imperial Dominion of the South" or "Dirty South")

3. Named after a person (e.g. "Fremont" or "Franklin")

4. Named after a word in another language (how most states were named--e.g. Texas coming from the Caddo word for "friends")

Tmth suggested possible making these things be measures voted on by the Southern public at-large, which might be fun, but we should still discuss this either way.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have deep concerns about two of the additions


9 - Does this mean that children will be voting? They are subjected to taxation if they are purchasing stuff.

10 - What is meant by economic security? I am not a fan of unfunded mandates, doubly so if they are placed within a constitutional framework, as it basically becomes a region's constitutional requirement to go bankrupt.

I don't want courts dictating budgets and fiscal policy.