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  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  ...And here is the first glitch worth panicking over
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Author Topic: ...And here is the first glitch worth panicking over  (Read 406 times)
Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
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« on: May 16, 2016, 08:15:55 pm »

As of June 6, "this Constitution shall be considered fully implemented; and accordingly all acts and offices established under the previous Constitution, or those of the former Regions, shall cease to hold any authority within the Republic of Atlasia".

We struck out the portions in the Constitution at the tail-end of the ConCon that said that the President and Vice President needed to be re-elected (because these offices were not changed in terms of number or jurisdiction - nor newly-created offices - between the two Constitutions, and because an election for such a short term wouldn't make sense) but I am afraid this particular clause will still apply with regards to wiping the slate clean. If this happens, then we won't have a President for a month (RIP ME Cry ).

Can we amend the Constitution after ratification but before it goes into effect?
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Lumine
LumineVonReuental
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2016, 08:23:19 pm »
« Edited: May 16, 2016, 08:34:36 pm by Lumine »

Hmmmm... wouldn't an amendment to the Constitution take a bit too long?

If by your design Congress is seated on June 6, there's also the alternative of passing an emergency bill to hold a Presidential Election (with the winner to assume as soon as possible), or, alternatively, create a line of succession so the future Speaker or PPT becomes acting President.
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Ted Bessell
tedbessell
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2016, 08:30:15 pm »

Hmmmm... wouldn't an amendment to the Constitution might take a bit too long? If by your design Congress is seated on June 6, there's also the alternative of passing an emergency bill to hold a Presidential Election (with the winner to assume as soon as possible), or, alternatively, create a line of succession so the future Speaker or PPT becomes acting President.

Agreed. I would recommend organizing Senatorial elections ASAP, shuttling through a bill in re succession, and then making the Speaker of the House de facto Acting President for a short while. That seems like the least time-consuming way to get a President in.
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Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2016, 08:40:03 pm »

Hmmmm... wouldn't an amendment to the Constitution might take a bit too long? If by your design Congress is seated on June 6, there's also the alternative of passing an emergency bill to hold a Presidential Election (with the winner to assume as soon as possible), or, alternatively, create a line of succession so the future Speaker or PPT becomes acting President.

Hmmmm... wouldn't an amendment to the Constitution might take a bit too long? If by your design Congress is seated on June 6, there's also the alternative of passing an emergency bill to hold a Presidential Election (with the winner to assume as soon as possible), or, alternatively, create a line of succession so the future Speaker or PPT becomes acting President.

Agreed. I would recommend organizing Senatorial elections ASAP, shuttling through a bill in re succession, and then making the Speaker of the House de facto Acting President for a short while. That seems like the least time-consuming way to get a President in.

It's really not that simple.

First of all, I think given the emergency nature of the situation, the Senate could crank out an add-on amendment in just a couple of days, push it for ratification, and have it ratified before we reach the precipice. As I understand it, all three of the options listed above would require some either some constitutional amending or waiting until we cross the threshold, since anything statute-wise passed right now would be wiped at the moment of transition.

Here's the first issue with waiting: I see nothing in the Constitution that specifies whether bills pass or not if the President doesn't act on them, or what time-frame would result in a default approval (like what we have with either the 7-day or 10-day window at present). This means that the Senate (and the House) can pass legislation and without a President/further clarification on how these situations are handled, it will just sit there. I mean, if we can just make up or assume the best in a bad situation like that, then I might as well assume that I'll still be President based on intent.

Secondly: The precise methods for how the two chambers are even going to pass legislation are not in stone yet - they'll have to be hammered out by the separate chambers once they are fully seated - which means formal legislation and rules regarding these measures could take weeks to set in stone, and that's before you get to passing anything (whether statute or not). Rules have to be established for leadership positions (Speaker, Majority Leader, and whatever else). It's not going to be a simple case of just jumping in and passing something once this resets: there are multiple bottlenecks that will have to be handled once we cross the event horizon.

Based on the logistics I'm seeing and if we follow the actual laws (and lack thereof), waiting until we cross this threshold means not having a President arguably until the regularly-scheduled inauguration in July.
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Ted Bessell
tedbessell
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2016, 09:00:59 pm »

Ah. I assumed that the window for inaction was still in place, my apologies.

I'll defer to the Senate as to what to do, but it would be very difficult to crank something out in that timeframe. I don't even want to think about the bureaucratic and legal implications of shuttling a Constitutional amendment through that fast Tongue
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Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2016, 09:13:29 pm »

Ah. I assumed that the window for inaction was still in place, my apologies.

I'll defer to the Senate as to what to do, but it would be very difficult to crank something out in that timeframe. I don't even want to think about the bureaucratic and legal implications of shuttling a Constitutional amendment through that fast Tongue

Considering the emergency nature and considering the fact that it's just one simple clarification, I wouldn't think there'd be much to debate or much controversy surrounding it. Based on my desired schedule (which is optimistic and may not work out), we have exactly three weeks before June 6. A few days for debate and a week to ratify is well within the capability of the Senate and the regions.

Perhaps some people smell blood and want to oust me now, but either way, I'll be gone by July 1 and it would be reckless in my view to gamble like this by jumping with a non-functioning, newly-minted legislative branch, no regional government and no executive branch. We'd literally have just a court and a legislature that will have to spend its first days and weeks crafting the actual mechanisms for how it handles legislation. In contrast to that, this is a very simple and straightforward solution.
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