MI-NBC News/Marist: Clinton+17, Trump+19
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Author Topic: MI-NBC News/Marist: Clinton+17, Trump+19  (Read 6350 times)
Holmes
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2016, 05:33:11 PM »

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Even if you don't think this is racist, it's incredibly offensive. It's you a white European saying African Americans do not have the agency to make their own choices, which is rooted in racism. You may not have intended it to come out that way but it did and as a moderator you should watch the language you use.

Many of his posts have some sort of veiled racism or sexism, and he just casually denies it when confronted on it.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2016, 05:55:40 PM »
« Edited: March 06, 2016, 06:25:39 PM by Fmr President & Senator Polnut »

   I wonder if some of the disappointment on the part of Sanders people for black support of Clinton is just simply this:  blacks are disproportionately poor, compared with whites and Asians, therefore they should be a potential core constituency for the candidate who is most in favor of changing the current socio-economic system, Sanders.

I read a really interesting article about how because of the broad systemic issues AA and Latinos face, they're less likely to invest in idealism and focus on pragmatism. Why invest in a candidate who you don't think can win, let alone deliver what they promise even if they did?

Then having a bunch of (generally) privileged white people telling you what's good for you, probably doesn't go down all that well. 
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Holmes
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2016, 06:06:41 PM »

   I wonder if some of the disappointment on the part of Sanders people for black support of Clinton is just simply this:  blacks are disproportionately poor, compared with whites and Asians, therefore they should be a potential core constituency for the candidate who is most in favor of changing the current socio-economic system, Sanders.

I read a really interesting article about how because of the broad systemic issues AA and Latinos face, they're less likely to invest in idealism and focus on pragmatism.

Another factor to consider, especially in red states in the South, many believe that a Democratic president/administration is their only hope against an otherwise solidly Republican state government and legislature, so electability plays a bigger role in their decision.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2016, 06:23:43 PM »

Damn, among Whites Sanders and Clinton are tied.

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Reported for racism.

There's nothing racist about what I said. I just find it strange that Blacks are voting so stubbornly for Hillary, a corporate enabler and millionaire - who has basically nothing in common with the average black middle-class voter or the ones even struggling harder on welfare or minimum wage. It would be better if Black voters took another look at Bernie, who'd actually have better policies for them instead of Hillary - the corporate whore.
Nearly everything you say is racist or misogynistic.

Wrong.

It is. Everytime black people come up, Sanders supporters constantly bring up welfare.

Have you ever realized how condescending it is for non-whites to be told that their interests lie in the candidate promising them the most stuff from the government?

Read again what I wrote: you make it sound as if I was talking exclusively about Blacks on welfare. But I was talking about all Blacks in general and how stubbornly they are voting Hillary. This is abnormal and can be questioned - without it being racist.

The problem is that you're so blinded by your hatred of Hillary that you don't understand WHY people would support her.
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Admiral Kizaru
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2016, 08:10:36 PM »

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Even if you don't think this is racist, it's incredibly offensive. It's you a white European saying African Americans do not have the agency to make their own choices, which is rooted in racism. You may not have intended it to come out that way but it did and as a moderator you should watch the language you use.

Spot on and he seems to have a history of this. It's truly baffling that he's allowed to be a moderator on here.
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Badger
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2016, 08:19:21 PM »

Damn, among Whites Sanders and Clinton are tied.

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Well, good to see leftists aren't immune from posting racist-ass $hit.
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ElectionAtlas
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« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2016, 10:29:11 PM »

New Poll: Michigan President by Marist College on 2016-03-03

Summary:
Trump:
41%
Cruz:
22%
Rubio:
17%
Kasich:
13%
Other:
2%
Undecided:
5%

Poll Source URL: Full Poll Details

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ElectionAtlas
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« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2016, 10:31:22 PM »

New Poll: Michigan President by Marist College on 2016-03-03

Summary:
Clinton:
57%
Sanders:
40%
Other:
0%
Undecided:
3%

Poll Source URL: Full Poll Details

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Seriously?
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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2016, 03:08:51 AM »

So ARG is still trash, no shocker there.  Good poll for Trump, how are delegates allocated in Michigan?
> 50% statewide, winner takes all
< 50% statewide, proportional, subject to a 15% floor.

Nothing is allocated by CD in Michigan.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2016, 05:14:00 AM »

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Even if you don't think this is racist, it's incredibly offensive. It's you a white European saying African Americans do not have the agency to make their own choices, which is rooted in racism. You may not have intended it to come out that way but it did and as a moderator you should watch the language you use.

No matter how much you guys want to put me into the "racist/sexist" corner - it doesn't work. It didn't work over the past year and it doesn't work now. Because I simply am not.

I didn't say Blacks "do not have the agency to make their own choices" (that's how you put it).

I said Blacks have an unnecessary Hillary-fetish for some reason and vote for her 85-15, which is unexplainable considering Sanders has roughly the same policies regarding Blacks and other minorities than Hillary. In that sense, Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie with their silly pro-Hillary voting, which she earns by no means. Much like the stupid superdelegates, who are also lining up behind her for no obvious reason ...
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2016, 05:20:25 AM »

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Even if you don't think this is racist, it's incredibly offensive. It's you a white European saying African Americans do not have the agency to make their own choices, which is rooted in racism. You may not have intended it to come out that way but it did and as a moderator you should watch the language you use.

No matter how much you guys want to put me into the "racist/sexist" corner - it doesn't work. It didn't work over the past year and it doesn't work now. Because I simply am not.

I didn't say Blacks "do not have the agency to make their own choices" (that's how you put it).

I said Blacks have an unnecessary Hillary-fetish for some reason and vote for her 85-15, which is unexplainable considering Sanders has roughly the same policies regarding Blacks and other minorities than Hillary. In that sense, Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie with their silly pro-Hillary voting, which she earns by no means. Much like the stupid superdelegates, who are also lining up behind her for no obvious reason ...

Again... just because you refuse to understand Hillary's appeal, that doesn't mean you need to criticise the voting patterns of a race of people. And "Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie"? Jesus Christ, man. Poor Bernie for voting how they want.

The debate showed me in clear focus, that Bernie understands a lot less about racial issues than I realised before. Bernie is trying to get people to make a huge leap of faith, I think the commentary about the lack of PoC to invest in Bernie's narrow agenda is increasingly valid.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2016, 05:26:35 AM »

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Even if you don't think this is racist, it's incredibly offensive. It's you a white European saying African Americans do not have the agency to make their own choices, which is rooted in racism. You may not have intended it to come out that way but it did and as a moderator you should watch the language you use.

No matter how much you guys want to put me into the "racist/sexist" corner - it doesn't work. It didn't work over the past year and it doesn't work now. Because I simply am not.

I didn't say Blacks "do not have the agency to make their own choices" (that's how you put it).

I said Blacks have an unnecessary Hillary-fetish for some reason and vote for her 85-15, which is unexplainable considering Sanders has roughly the same policies regarding Blacks and other minorities than Hillary. In that sense, Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie with their silly pro-Hillary voting, which she earns by no means. Much like the stupid superdelegates, who are also lining up behind her for no obvious reason ...

Again... just because you refuse to understand Hillary's appeal, that doesn't mean you need to criticise the voting patterns of a race of people. And "Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie"? Jesus Christ, man. Poor Bernie for voting how they want.

The debate showed me in clear focus, that Bernie understands a lot less about racial issues than I realised before. Bernie is trying to get people to make a huge leap of faith, I think the commentary about the lack of PoC to invest in Bernie's narrow agenda is increasingly valid.

A) Plz tell me in full detail what Hillary's "appeal" is (that warrants her getting 85% of Blacks).

B) Since when are Superdelegates (of which she gets 96%) a "race of people" ?
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2016, 05:34:59 AM »

A) Plz tell me in full detail what Hillary's "appeal" is (that warrants her getting 85% of Blacks).


One thing is that she has embraced Obama while Sanders has repeatedly criticized him, entertained the thought of primarying him back in 2012 and has been endorsed by people like Cornell West who have repeatedly insulted and made derogatory comments about him.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2016, 05:40:37 AM »

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Even if you don't think this is racist, it's incredibly offensive. It's you a white European saying African Americans do not have the agency to make their own choices, which is rooted in racism. You may not have intended it to come out that way but it did and as a moderator you should watch the language you use.

No matter how much you guys want to put me into the "racist/sexist" corner - it doesn't work. It didn't work over the past year and it doesn't work now. Because I simply am not.

I didn't say Blacks "do not have the agency to make their own choices" (that's how you put it).

I said Blacks have an unnecessary Hillary-fetish for some reason and vote for her 85-15, which is unexplainable considering Sanders has roughly the same policies regarding Blacks and other minorities than Hillary. In that sense, Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie with their silly pro-Hillary voting, which she earns by no means. Much like the stupid superdelegates, who are also lining up behind her for no obvious reason ...

Again... just because you refuse to understand Hillary's appeal, that doesn't mean you need to criticise the voting patterns of a race of people. And "Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie"? Jesus Christ, man. Poor Bernie for voting how they want.

The debate showed me in clear focus, that Bernie understands a lot less about racial issues than I realised before. Bernie is trying to get people to make a huge leap of faith, I think the commentary about the lack of PoC to invest in Bernie's narrow agenda is increasingly valid.

A) Plz tell me in full detail what Hillary's "appeal" is (that warrants her getting 85% of Blacks).

B) Since when are Superdelegates (of which she gets 96%) a "race of people" ?

a) I don't speak for black people, nor would presume to understand what drives them to vote the way they do. Maybe ask why Sanders isn't connecting with them, instead of what seems to you is them not understanding what's good for them? Clinton has a much longer record with the AA community (actually longer than her husband), is closely tied to Obama... etc. That's my guess, but again, I don't presume to speak for all African Americans.

b) You won't find any disagreements with me about super-delegates. They and caucuses should be done away with. But Superdelegates support the candidate they think has the best chance of winning the General. Hillary had most of them in 2008 (although Obama did a lot better than Sanders), then when things changed, two-thirds of them got behind Obama by the end. The Superdelegates know what would happen if they decided the race.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2016, 05:49:04 AM »

But Blacks in their silly, blind loyalty break for Clinton with over 3/4 support ...

Even if you don't think this is racist, it's incredibly offensive. It's you a white European saying African Americans do not have the agency to make their own choices, which is rooted in racism. You may not have intended it to come out that way but it did and as a moderator you should watch the language you use.

No matter how much you guys want to put me into the "racist/sexist" corner - it doesn't work. It didn't work over the past year and it doesn't work now. Because I simply am not.

I didn't say Blacks "do not have the agency to make their own choices" (that's how you put it).

I said Blacks have an unnecessary Hillary-fetish for some reason and vote for her 85-15, which is unexplainable considering Sanders has roughly the same policies regarding Blacks and other minorities than Hillary. In that sense, Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie with their silly pro-Hillary voting, which she earns by no means. Much like the stupid superdelegates, who are also lining up behind her for no obvious reason ...

Again... just because you refuse to understand Hillary's appeal, that doesn't mean you need to criticise the voting patterns of a race of people. And "Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie"? Jesus Christ, man. Poor Bernie for voting how they want.

The debate showed me in clear focus, that Bernie understands a lot less about racial issues than I realised before. Bernie is trying to get people to make a huge leap of faith, I think the commentary about the lack of PoC to invest in Bernie's narrow agenda is increasingly valid.

A) Plz tell me in full detail what Hillary's "appeal" is (that warrants her getting 85% of Blacks).

B) Since when are Superdelegates (of which she gets 96%) a "race of people" ?

a) I don't speak for black people, nor would presume to understand what drives them to vote the way they do. Maybe ask why Sanders isn't connecting with them, instead of what seems to you is them not understanding what's good for them? Clinton has a much longer record with the AA community (actually longer than her husband), is closely tied to Obama... etc. That's my guess, but again, I don't presume to speak for all African Americans.

b) You won't find any disagreements with me about super-delegates. They and caucuses should be done away with. But Superdelegates support the candidate they think has the best chance of winning the General. Hillary had most of them in 2008 (although Obama did a lot better than Sanders), then when things changed, two-thirds of them got behind Obama by the end. The Superdelegates know what would happen if they decided the race.

The points you listed in a) are not warranting a 80-85% support level for her though. I'd have no problem if Blacks split 50-50, or 55-45 or 60-40. OK. But unlike in the GE, where it's easy to understand that Blacks go Dem 95-5 or 90-10 over the Republicans, there's nothing that warrants such a gap between 2 Democrats ... That's why I call it "blind loyalty" and I stick with that (no matter if you guys call me a "racist" or not). For your point b) it just means superdelegates are stupid, because Sanders is the more electable candidate in the GE (look at all recent polls in the GE board). But I acknowledge that Sanders has not been really efficient in communicating to voters that he's the more electable candidate in the GE ...
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2016, 05:58:34 AM »
« Edited: March 07, 2016, 06:00:14 AM by Fmr President & Senator Polnut »

It could also be that these people know politics and realise that the lack of attention and fire on Sanders is likely artificially boosting his GE numbers (that and GE numbers are pointless at this point in the face while emotions are high).

Which is why I'm not taking any GE polls seriously until the nominees are basically decided.

Whether or not you like how they're voting, or understand it. But that's not the point, blind loyalty or not, it's what's happening in the same way that you're blind to her appeal (really to anyone, from what I gather).
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2016, 06:06:22 AM »

I read somewhere an article that Sanders as a socialist believes that if income inequality is eradicated then all the other problems plaguing minorities (racism, xenophobia, etc.) will automatically be solved.
Black and Hispanics voters don't buy that theory, hence they are cool towards Sanders and his rhetoric.
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« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2016, 07:19:01 AM »

I read somewhere an article that Sanders as a socialist believes that if income inequality is eradicated then all the other problems plaguing minorities (racism, xenophobia, etc.) will automatically be solved.
Black and Hispanics voters don't buy that theory, hence they are cool towards Sanders and his rhetoric.

Someone who got interested in politics because his father's family was killed in the Holocaust most certainly does not think that.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2016, 07:29:47 AM »

Tender, why do young white people vote so overwhelmingly for Bernie Sanders?  The margins are ridiculous.  In New Hampshire he won 83% of the vote among people under 30 years old.  I mean, I can understand 65% or even 70%, but 83% just doesn’t make sense.  And 74% of unmarried men?  Doesn’t really seem fair.  The only possible explanation is that young people are discriminating against her, right?  I guess they must be sexist?

To be serious, your logic seems to be that if there’s a given demographic group that deviates a lot from the rest of the electorate, and you can’t figure out a simple reason for that deviation, then the actual reason for it must be something stupid, like “blind loyalty”.

You do realize that different demographics of voters are different, right?  And they’re not different because all the members of that group got together on a conference call and decided where to set their level of support for a candidate?  The demographic variation is a consequence of individual members of the demo in question making individual decisions about their own vote.  A single black person can only vote for Hillary Clinton once.  But if too many of his neighbors also vote for her, then he must be “discriminatory”?  That’s absurd.

I mean, look at the language you’re using here:

The points you listed in a) are not warranting a 80-85% support level for her though. I'd have no problem if Blacks split 50-50, or 55-45 or 60-40. OK.

“Not warranting a 80-85% support level for her”?  Again, how do you think these demographic numbers come about?  The members of the demographic come to a mutual agreement about what fraction of them the candidate “deserves” support from before they go into the voting booth?
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Wiz in Wis
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« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2016, 11:36:11 AM »

No matter how much you guys want to put me into the "racist/sexist" corner - it doesn't work. It didn't work over the past year and it doesn't work now. Because I simply am not.

I didn't say Blacks "do not have the agency to make their own choices" (that's how you put it).

I said Blacks have an unnecessary Hillary-fetish for some reason and vote for her 85-15, which is unexplainable considering Sanders has roughly the same policies regarding Blacks and other minorities than Hillary. In that sense, Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie with their silly pro-Hillary voting, which she earns by no means. Much like the stupid superdelegates, who are also lining up behind her for no obvious reason ...

I doubt this will be all that persuasive to Tender, but just off the top of my head, here are a list of reasons why I would imagine African Americans would heavily lean towards Clinton. I'm sure there are other reasons as well, and as I am not an African American, I don't presuppose to know them all.

1) Hillary worked for Obama, after an acrimonious primary, which shows that she is loyal to him, and by extension, get's kudos from his strongest base of support.
2) Hillary has a long history, from the Children's defense fund, through Arkansas, FLOTUS, and Senator from New York, in maintaining and growing her relationship with the African American community. She is comfortable among them. She know's their struggle better than Bernie does, and it shows.
3) She has tended a long list of African American leaders who have endorsed her, largely because she was worked with them for decades. This includes Dozens of African American elected officials in Congress, and at the state and local level. John Lewis, Jim Clyburn, Gwen Moore, Barbara Lee, Hakeem Jeffries, Marcia Fudge. Bernie has no equivalent proxies. Killer Mike and Kieth Ellison are not enough to offset the massive institutional support among trusted Black leaders that Clinton has earned.
4) The African American community is more tightly organized in terms of political action than most white groups, so activating large numbers of African Americans to vote is easier, since they tend to be more concentrated politically. I'm sure Bernie would do better among African American non-voters, but they don't vote... so...
5) African Americans tend to be more moderate, ideologically.
6) African Americans tend to be more interested in tangible, transactional politics, not Campaign Finance Reform or regulating big banks.
7) Hillary's positions are not that different than Bernie's on most issues. She's slightly more moderate. That's where they are too.
8 ) African Americans are more pragmatic. They see Clinton as the more pragmatic choice.
9) African Americans are often overlooked by white movements. They see Bernie's college aged champions as just the latest in a long line of white liberals who seem completely uninterested in talking about racial privilege.
10) Bernie is 74 years old. He's running for president now. They maybe wonder where the hell he's been for 50 years. In that time, he's been pretty much entirely in Vermont. So, the fact that he has to dig up pictures from the 60s to show he gives a damn about black voters is actually a negative. He comes off as a Johnny come lately on race.
11) African Americans are loyal Democrats. They are loyal to the party that gave them the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, and President Obama. Bernie has been a independent socialist from VT until last year. Why should the most loyal party supporters reward him for just showing up.
12) They think Hillary will win. They care about winning, not throwing a tantrum.

And I'm sure there are many other reasons. You just don't like them. Black voters are not going to be impressed by a hippie from Portlandia saying that they should have a 15 dollar minimum wage instead of a 12.50 one. That's not enough for them to consider him a better choice.
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« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2016, 12:48:33 PM »

^^^All accurate points AFAIK, Wiz.


There's also another one we're missing: Blacks (and most minorities, by the way) are very pro-establishment.

Talking about the economics of the black middle class (where a plurality of blacks are, not in poverty or working class), they are disproportionately lower-middle class and disproportionately reliant on public sector jobs (federal/state/local government, education, public transportation, public works & services) and thus also heavily unionized.

Subconscious racism often means that qualified minorities face problems when trying to get jobs in the private sector, while the public sector has strict anti-discrimination laws.

Liberal reformers are often met with skepticism by poor communities (of any race, but especially in urban areas) if these reformers are seen as coming from outside the community. Here in Chicago during the 1980s Mayors Byrne, Washington, and Daley all took aim at reforming the patronage system of the Democratic Machine (the infamous story is of city workers being paid the modern-day equivalent of $30 per hour to wash street signs).

Usually these reform movements are led by, but most importantly supported by, more affluent urban liberals. Though paying workers $30 per hour to wash signs is pretty ridiculous, many times these jobs are eliminated outright instead of being directed to more productive projects. Thus, "reform" is often met with skepticism by urban residents who depend on public sector jobs (this includes whites, FWIW).

Bernie Sanders' attacks on "the establishment" are what's hurting him among urban minorities, even when it helps him among white liberals. Hillary Clinton is seen as someone who is liberal and will get results but also does not threaten the established order.

The ever-hated "establishment" is still viewed very positively by a majority of Democrats, even if liberal independents and Republicans hate their respective establishments.
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« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2016, 12:50:51 PM »

No matter how much you guys want to put me into the "racist/sexist" corner - it doesn't work. It didn't work over the past year and it doesn't work now. Because I simply am not.

I didn't say Blacks "do not have the agency to make their own choices" (that's how you put it).

I said Blacks have an unnecessary Hillary-fetish for some reason and vote for her 85-15, which is unexplainable considering Sanders has roughly the same policies regarding Blacks and other minorities than Hillary. In that sense, Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie with their silly pro-Hillary voting, which she earns by no means. Much like the stupid superdelegates, who are also lining up behind her for no obvious reason ...

I doubt this will be all that persuasive to Tender, but just off the top of my head, here are a list of reasons why I would imagine African Americans would heavily lean towards Clinton. I'm sure there are other reasons as well, and as I am not an African American, I don't presuppose to know them all.

1) Hillary worked for Obama, after an acrimonious primary, which shows that she is loyal to him, and by extension, get's kudos from his strongest base of support.
2) Hillary has a long history, from the Children's defense fund, through Arkansas, FLOTUS, and Senator from New York, in maintaining and growing her relationship with the African American community. She is comfortable among them. She know's their struggle better than Bernie does, and it shows.
3) She has tended a long list of African American leaders who have endorsed her, largely because she was worked with them for decades. This includes Dozens of African American elected officials in Congress, and at the state and local level. John Lewis, Jim Clyburn, Gwen Moore, Barbara Lee, Hakeem Jeffries, Marcia Fudge. Bernie has no equivalent proxies. Killer Mike and Kieth Ellison are not enough to offset the massive institutional support among trusted Black leaders that Clinton has earned.
4) The African American community is more tightly organized in terms of political action than most white groups, so activating large numbers of African Americans to vote is easier, since they tend to be more concentrated politically. I'm sure Bernie would do better among African American non-voters, but they don't vote... so...
5) African Americans tend to be more moderate, ideologically.
6) African Americans tend to be more interested in tangible, transactional politics, not Campaign Finance Reform or regulating big banks.
7) Hillary's positions are not that different than Bernie's on most issues. She's slightly more moderate. That's where they are too.
8 ) African Americans are more pragmatic. They see Clinton as the more pragmatic choice.
9) African Americans are often overlooked by white movements. They see Bernie's college aged champions as just the latest in a long line of white liberals who seem completely uninterested in talking about racial privilege.
10) Bernie is 74 years old. He's running for president now. They maybe wonder where the hell he's been for 50 years. In that time, he's been pretty much entirely in Vermont. So, the fact that he has to dig up pictures from the 60s to show he gives a damn about black voters is actually a negative. He comes off as a Johnny come lately on race.
11) African Americans are loyal Democrats. They are loyal to the party that gave them the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, and President Obama. Bernie has been a independent socialist from VT until last year. Why should the most loyal party supporters reward him for just showing up.
12) They think Hillary will win. They care about winning, not throwing a tantrum.

And I'm sure there are many other reasons. You just don't like them. Black voters are not going to be impressed by a hippie from Portlandia saying that they should have a 15 dollar minimum wage instead of a 12.50 one. That's not enough for them to consider him a better choice.


Or put more simply, Black voters are less likely to vote on strictly on ideology than White voters.
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Ogre Mage
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« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2016, 08:39:09 PM »

No matter how much you guys want to put me into the "racist/sexist" corner - it doesn't work. It didn't work over the past year and it doesn't work now. Because I simply am not.

I didn't say Blacks "do not have the agency to make their own choices" (that's how you put it).

I said Blacks have an unnecessary Hillary-fetish for some reason and vote for her 85-15, which is unexplainable considering Sanders has roughly the same policies regarding Blacks and other minorities than Hillary. In that sense, Blacks are virtually discriminating Bernie with their silly pro-Hillary voting, which she earns by no means. Much like the stupid superdelegates, who are also lining up behind her for no obvious reason ...

I doubt this will be all that persuasive to Tender, but just off the top of my head, here are a list of reasons why I would imagine African Americans would heavily lean towards Clinton. I'm sure there are other reasons as well, and as I am not an African American, I don't presuppose to know them all.

1) Hillary worked for Obama, after an acrimonious primary, which shows that she is loyal to him, and by extension, get's kudos from his strongest base of support.

I think a related aspect to this is that President Obama has not-so-subtly indicated that Hillary is his preferred candidate.  Many black officials and community leaders have no doubt noticed that Clinton has the President's approval.

Clinton's support is particularly strong among black women and I read an article in the NYT which discussed that while black women overwhelmingly supported Obama in the 2008 Democratic Primary, they knew it meant putting aside potentially the first female president.  There was a feeling of unfinished business.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/us/black-women-join-south-carolina-fight-to-send-a-woman-to-the-white-house.html?_r=0
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MK
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« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2016, 02:42:14 AM »

FYI marist was pretty spot on for super tues Gop side. 
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2016, 02:50:11 AM »

I think this article is very relevant to the discussion and objectively eye-opening to those who may have difficulty understanding the voting patterns of certain demographics, in this case, African-Americans:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/3/1492931/-Why-black-voters-vote-the-way-they-do-and-advice-on-how-to-win-them

It is relatively long for your typical internet article, but I feel it went leaps and bounds in helping me understand African-American voting patterns, and their overall political world views.
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