Donald Trump's Republican Party
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Author Topic: Donald Trump's Republican Party  (Read 2488 times)
Frodo
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« on: February 20, 2016, 01:04:54 PM »
« edited: February 20, 2016, 01:06:29 PM by Frodo »

Let's suppose Donald Trump wins the GOP nomination -how do you imagine the future Republican Party will be like when he and his supporters succeed in reshaping the coalition that comprises it?  And if you're a Republican now, would you still consider yourself one?  
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2016, 01:26:21 PM »

TRUMP is the product of, rather than the cause of the proletarianization and ethnic nationalism that has transformed the modern GOP.  I could see him accelerating those trends, and possibly being credited for them ultimately by amateur psephologists, much like Nixon gets credited for "muh Southern Strategy".
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 08:32:26 PM »

I'm never going to register as anything other than Republican, regardless of how I vote.

And I do not believe the party becomes like Trump long-term.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 09:33:47 PM »

I don't even know if the Republican party can or will be changed. I read a good article from Reason that argues he is a result of a party in apocalypse more than anything. And to some degree I agree that his rise is a result of a party and a people that are not healthy politically (distrust in all major institutions, constant anger, low optimism, etc.). This may literally be the destruction of the Republican Party, however I doubt a whole new party will be formed, so here's how I imagine it would be transformed if Trump wins:

The Republican party becomes far more nationalistic - and yes, a little more fascistic and authoritarian. On the economic front, free markets are not a priority, instead the government should do what is deemed 'right for America'. So tariffs on other countries goods and subsidies for certain producers or products (we have that right now, the difference will be that these will sold as populist and anti-cronyist, to help the common people) if it brings back jobs. The talk becomes all about jobs, and American jobs specifically (again, more nationalistic). Now, I still expect the party to remain on its traditional taxation and regulatory rhetoric, so it won't be like this huge transformation. On immigration, the regular policies sold will be that people need to be deported before they come back, immigration overall needs to be cut down, and that there needs to be a lot of security at the border. On foreign policy, there will be a demand for quick and easy wars if any, but no nation building and no intervention otherwise (very different from the standard Republican position now). However, it will be the same party in the sense that when they feel security is needed, civil liberties come far behind or go out the window.

But more than anything else, Trump's ideology can be summed up as "trust me, I know how these things work, I know how to get it done and we will be successful", a simplistic, non-substantive, and deeply authoritarian sentiment that worries me a lot.
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NHI
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 10:51:49 PM »

A Trump nomination and Trump Presidency I think would be great for the GOP short term and long term. We're watching the crumbling of neo-conservatism and a return to the populist economic tenor which is very much at the heart of the Reagan coalition.

This article explains it to a tee.
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/jerffrey-lord-trump-reclaiming-reagan/2016/02/20/id/715344/
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P123
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 01:21:04 AM »

Like it our not, Trumps views and ideology are the future of our party (GREATNEWS!)
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 03:47:34 AM »

A Trump nomination and Trump Presidency I think would be great for the GOP short term and long term. We're watching the crumbling of neo-conservatism and a return to the populist economic tenor which is very much at the heart of the Reagan coalition.

This article explains it to a tee.
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/jerffrey-lord-trump-reclaiming-reagan/2016/02/20/id/715344/

LOL, Reagan was not a populist he was a conservative on economics
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 01:37:43 PM »

Like it our not, Trumps views and ideology are the future of our party (GREATNEWS!)

A guy who appeals to a group of Americans who will continue to comprise less and less of America is not the future of anything.

You folks who think the GOP will abandon pro-business and free markets are insane.
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 03:29:18 PM »

Could Donald Trump run his presidency similar to Ronald Reagan if he's trying to recapture that moment?
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Virginiá
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 04:32:41 PM »

Could Donald Trump run his presidency similar to Ronald Reagan if he's trying to recapture that moment?

Do you mean achieve the same level of success as Reagan did for the party? Because if so, then no. He's simply too offensive and while I do admit he will probably bring in more working class whites to the party (at the expense of other whites turned off by him), he flat out alienated the largest growing voter blocs in this country. Reagan didn't really do that. He wasn't offensive like Trump at all.

Trump's keen awareness of the GOP electorate / working-class in general is pretty great, but his deliver and strategy is too polarizing. At best he will get Republicans a short term boost in support at the expense of long-term damage.

However, policy-wise, aside from the immigration/muslim stuff, I do think he is helping to put the GOP on a path towards policies more suited for the voters needs or desires, and not only the donors, which has historically been the case (and exactly why the voters are infuriated with the GOP establishment now)
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 04:42:00 AM »

You folks who think the GOP will abandon pro-business and free markets are insane.

This statement demonstrates much of the problem with the current Republican "establishment" view of things. Much of the reason why the GOP is flailing is because it has taken ideals like capitalism, business, free markets, etc. and placed those as the ultimate objectives of the economic portions of our system rather than viewing improving peoples' lives as the ultimate objective and using free-market capitalism to do it. Maybe 15% of America believes in capitalism as an ideological tenet, while probably 65% believe it is generally the best economic system to distribute resources but only as a means and not as an ends unto itself. The Republican Party must pitch the argument to voters that its economic policies will actually lead to growth that will help those voters rather than arguing "well, you believe in capitalism, don't you?". At the moment, there are a whole lot of people out there who don't want to end capitalism but simply want it to work for them rather than work to make the stock market go up. One could argue they benefit from the stock market going up, but I think many Americans, perhaps even most Americans, will find that a rather dubious assumption.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 09:48:49 AM »

You folks who think the GOP will abandon pro-business and free markets are insane.

This statement demonstrates much of the problem with the current Republican "establishment" view of things. Much of the reason why the GOP is flailing is because it has taken ideals like capitalism, business, free markets, etc. and placed those as the ultimate objectives of the economic portions of our system rather than viewing improving peoples' lives as the ultimate objective and using free-market capitalism to do it. Maybe 15% of America believes in capitalism as an ideological tenet, while probably 65% believe it is generally the best economic system to distribute resources but only as a means and not as an ends unto itself. The Republican Party must pitch the argument to voters that its economic policies will actually lead to growth that will help those voters rather than arguing "well, you believe in capitalism, don't you?". At the moment, there are a whole lot of people out there who don't want to end capitalism but simply want it to work for them rather than work to make the stock market go up. One could argue they benefit from the stock market going up, but I think many Americans, perhaps even most Americans, will find that a rather dubious assumption.

This is a terrific, well-developed response. My feelings more or less match these.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 09:43:28 PM »

You folks who think the GOP will abandon pro-business and free markets are insane.

This statement demonstrates much of the problem with the current Republican "establishment" view of things. Much of the reason why the GOP is flailing is because it has taken ideals like capitalism, business, free markets, etc. and placed those as the ultimate objectives of the economic portions of our system rather than viewing improving peoples' lives as the ultimate objective and using free-market capitalism to do it. Maybe 15% of America believes in capitalism as an ideological tenet, while probably 65% believe it is generally the best economic system to distribute resources but only as a means and not as an ends unto itself. The Republican Party must pitch the argument to voters that its economic policies will actually lead to growth that will help those voters rather than arguing "well, you believe in capitalism, don't you?". At the moment, there are a whole lot of people out there who don't want to end capitalism but simply want it to work for them rather than work to make the stock market go up. One could argue they benefit from the stock market going up, but I think many Americans, perhaps even most Americans, will find that a rather dubious assumption.

I fail to see how your valid criticism means a change in policy/philosophy is in order rather than a change in the style/articulation of the message.  I don't buy into the parties switched fairy tale, and it's fairly obvious that the GOP has had some strain of pro-business ideal in its platform since the beginning, and they've had periods of unbelievable success.  They need to better articulate (once again) that business is not this boogeyman responsible for everyone's problems as the Democrats often promote but rather the lifeblood of our economy, made up of ordinary Americans (and the fact that some of had "made it" and become rich should not be demonized).  I'll agree that we're not articulating that well at all, but the line of thinking "tax those evil rich people, it's not fair they have that much!" needs to be thrown back where it belongs.
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AltWorlder
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« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2016, 08:08:23 PM »

Honestly, capitalism uber alles is also a relic of the Cold War. Today, without Soviets or foreign revolutionaries as our enemy, as Red China being a comically exaggerated example of horrific corrupt crony capitalism, the need to protect capitalism for the sake of capitalism is becoming less important. Tea Party fanaticism might be the very last gasp of it in the GOP. The future of the Republicans might be to "pragmatically" capitalist, or support free markets when convenient but not in all cases.
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Vosem
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 02:06:22 PM »

Donald Trump's ideology is that because Donald Trump specifically claims to be a wealthy, successful person (which he is not, but regardless), then he knows what is best. Any shift he makes in terms of the party's ideology dies as soon as he does.
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Vern
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2016, 02:47:27 PM »

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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2016, 07:31:59 AM »

You folks who think the GOP will abandon pro-business and free markets are insane.

This statement demonstrates much of the problem with the current Republican "establishment" view of things. Much of the reason why the GOP is flailing is because it has taken ideals like capitalism, business, free markets, etc. and placed those as the ultimate objectives of the economic portions of our system rather than viewing improving peoples' lives as the ultimate objective and using free-market capitalism to do it. Maybe 15% of America believes in capitalism as an ideological tenet, while probably 65% believe it is generally the best economic system to distribute resources but only as a means and not as an ends unto itself. The Republican Party must pitch the argument to voters that its economic policies will actually lead to growth that will help those voters rather than arguing "well, you believe in capitalism, don't you?". At the moment, there are a whole lot of people out there who don't want to end capitalism but simply want it to work for them rather than work to make the stock market go up. One could argue they benefit from the stock market going up, but I think many Americans, perhaps even most Americans, will find that a rather dubious assumption.

I fail to see how your valid criticism means a change in policy/philosophy is in order rather than a change in the style/articulation of the message.  I don't buy into the parties switched fairy tale, and it's fairly obvious that the GOP has had some strain of pro-business ideal in its platform since the beginning, and they've had periods of unbelievable success.  They need to better articulate (once again) that business is not this boogeyman responsible for everyone's problems as the Democrats often promote but rather the lifeblood of our economy, made up of ordinary Americans (and the fact that some of had "made it" and become rich should not be demonized).  I'll agree that we're not articulating that well at all, but the line of thinking "tax those evil rich people, it's not fair they have that much!" needs to be thrown back where it belongs.

There a few important distinctions, some merely stylistic and some affecting policy. To start with the stylistic, I agree with you that business should not be a bogeyman, but "the lifeblood of our economy" and "responsible for everyone's problems" aren't mutually exclusive. Why should I be "pro-business" regardless of what party I belong to (the switching sides narrative is based on about the intellectual rigor of a political matrix score, so I'm going to ignore it altogether)? Why should I accept as a fundamental ideological tenet that what's good for business is truly good overall? Obviously there are a lot of answers as to how business benefit society (providing jobs, the means to support a family, making stuff, etc.), but that is far short of supporting the extraordinarily high bar necessary to accept it as fundamentally as certain Republicans seem to think. No, we shouldn't demonize the rich, but that doesn't mean we should cater to their interests. I agree that "tax those evil rich people, it's not fair they have that much!" is a terrible statement because the left has an unreasonable obsession with "equality" (whatever that means). But that doesn't mean the top marginal income tax bracket needs to be lowered in perpetuity either as many Republicans seem to think.

Also, "pro-business" and "capitalism" aren't quite the same thing. The former is the government catering to the interests of a specific set of people under the pretense that everyone will benefit from economic growth. The latter is the government keeping their hands off of who wins or loses under the pretense that that approach will lead to economic growth (or, weirdly, some sort of belief that government action is immoral).

As for the policy components, it's a bit harder to figure out what the Republican position is on some of these things, one could certain argue whether lower minimum wages, opposition to unionization, mandatory pay for sick/maternity leave, overtime laws, welfare payments, capital gains taxes, property taxes, and support of sales taxes and corporate speech really are good for society overall. Now, depending on how you define these issues, I agree with the GOP on a lot of them. But I have a hard time seeing, for example, how increasing the sales tax, as Republicans have encouraged in many states, improves things for working class Americans. I once asked a very intelligent Republican friend why he supported our governor's plan to increase the sales tax and he responded with "we need to cut a xxx other taxes and the sales tax increase is to make the numbers work out". Indeed such statements, albeit not from a politician but still, demonstrate a piece of why something like Trump could exist.
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President Pepe
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2016, 05:22:52 PM »

More Nationalistic and Protectionist, less interventionist, more Centrist on economics(ex. protecting entitlements and taxing the rich)  and social issues.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2016, 05:24:05 PM »

More Nationalistic and Protectionist, less interventionist, more Centrist on economics(ex. protecting entitlements and taxing the rich)  and social issues.

Donald Trump's Republican Party will last all of a few months.
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President Pepe
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2016, 05:31:56 PM »

More Nationalistic and Protectionist, less interventionist, more Centrist on economics(ex. protecting entitlements and taxing the rich)  and social issues.

Donald Trump's Republican Party will last all of a few months.

That combination with broaden the base. It will bring in a large portion of working class white democrats in the midwest and independents. The main reason Republicans have lost elections is because of it's support for wars, big business, and the obsession with social issues such as gay marriage.
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RFayette
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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2016, 02:16:16 AM »

Could Donald Trump run his presidency similar to Ronald Reagan if he's trying to recapture that moment?

Do you mean achieve the same level of success as Reagan did for the party? Because if so, then no. He's simply too offensive and while I do admit he will probably bring in more working class whites to the party (at the expense of other whites turned off by him), he flat out alienated the largest growing voter blocs in this country. Reagan didn't really do that. He wasn't offensive like Trump at all.

Trump's keen awareness of the GOP electorate / working-class in general is pretty great, but his deliver and strategy is too polarizing. At best he will get Republicans a short term boost in support at the expense of long-term damage.

However, policy-wise, aside from the immigration/muslim stuff, I do think he is helping to put the GOP on a path towards policies more suited for the voters needs or desires, and not only the donors, which has historically been the case (and exactly why the voters are infuriated with the GOP establishment now)

This is key.  The GOP's problem is that it has been following a strictly neoliberal orthodoxy that was challenged pretty strongly by the 2008 financial crisis.  Insistence on eliminating capital gains taxes and Dodd Frank and opposition to infrastructure spending all make it harder to appeal to a broader electorate.  Trump fuses it with a nationalism which is a tougher sell for America at large, but I definitely think the GOP will shift away from the Club for Growth crowd in the future.  It's not like we haven't seen this before...Mike Huckabee was hardly a doctrinaire fiscal conservative at all (and neither was McCain, really), and both did quite well in the primaries.  2016 is just the culmination of that.

Trump's views on Muslims (and maybe even immigration) may very well go by the wayside in a few months assuming he loses, but I think we're seeing a big shift on trade, healthcare, infrastructure, and possibly taxes on the GOP side of the ledger.
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