Secession

[Kodratos]

I would have voted for secession. I had six ancestors who fought for the Confederacy

Is that all?  I had 28 total that I know of and only 9 came back without being killed or badly wounded.

I'm sure there are far more, but I have no way of finding out which ones that were not DIRECT ancestors fought.

[12th Doctor]

Also I must say that the creation of West Virginia was unconstitutional. The constitution says no state can be created out of a state or territory. The reason the western Virginia counties voted to become their own state was because they were threatened by the Union w/an option. Stay with Virginia and you will lose your booming railroad economy. Leave and form your own state and you will be able to keep the railroads and gain Union military support. Since in that time period the Eastern counties (Where the railroads were) far outweighed the west in population the formation of WVA was fairly easy. After the war the Federal govt offered WVA back to Virginia. The Federal govt told Virginia they could have the Western counties back if they paid back all their prewar and war debts or let WVA remain a state and split the debts in half with the new state.

Well, acctually, no.  Though that provision exists in the Constitution, it is basically meaningless.  Vermont was created from New York, Tennessee from North Carolina, Kentucky from Virginia, Maine from Mass. and so on.

[??????????]

Also I must say that the creation of West Virginia was unconstitutional. The constitution says no state can be created out of a state or territory. The reason the western Virginia counties voted to become their own state was because they were threatened by the Union w/an option. Stay with Virginia and you will lose your booming railroad economy. Leave and form your own state and you will be able to keep the railroads and gain Union military support. Since in that time period the Eastern counties (Where the railroads were) far outweighed the west in population the formation of WVA was fairly easy. After the war the Federal govt offered WVA back to Virginia. The Federal govt told Virginia they could have the Western counties back if they paid back all their prewar and war debts or let WVA remain a state and split the debts in half with the new state.

Well, acctually, no.  Though that provision exists in the Constitution, it is basically meaningless.  Vermont was created from New York, Tennessee from North Carolina, Kentucky from Virginia, Maine from Mass. and so on.

Were those states created before or after 1789?

[KEmperor]

Also I must say that the creation of West Virginia was unconstitutional. The constitution says no state can be created out of a state or territory. The reason the western Virginia counties voted to become their own state was because they were threatened by the Union w/an option. Stay with Virginia and you will lose your booming railroad economy. Leave and form your own state and you will be able to keep the railroads and gain Union military support. Since in that time period the Eastern counties (Where the railroads were) far outweighed the west in population the formation of WVA was fairly easy. After the war the Federal govt offered WVA back to Virginia. The Federal govt told Virginia they could have the Western counties back if they paid back all their prewar and war debts or let WVA remain a state and split the debts in half with the new state.

Well, acctually, no.  Though that provision exists in the Constitution, it is basically meaningless.  Vermont was created from New York, Tennessee from North Carolina, Kentucky from Virginia, Maine from Mass. and so on.

Were those states created before or after 1789?

Are you kidding me?  How many states were there when the constitution was signed?  13.

[??????????]

I know that but were these states broken away as seperate territories before the Constitution was signed? Some founders raised heck about even new territory being added.

[angus]

Also I must say that the creation of West Virginia was unconstitutional. The constitution says no state can be created out of a state or territory. The reason the western Virginia counties voted to become their own state was because they were threatened by the Union w/an option. Stay with Virginia and you will lose your booming railroad economy. Leave and form your own state and you will be able to keep the railroads and gain Union military support. Since in that time period the Eastern counties (Where the railroads were) far outweighed the west in population the formation of WVA was fairly easy. After the war the Federal govt offered WVA back to Virginia. The Federal govt told Virginia they could have the Western counties back if they paid back all their prewar and war debts or let WVA remain a state and split the debts in half with the new state.

Well, acctually, no.  Though that provision exists in the Constitution, it is basically meaningless.  Vermont was created from New York, Tennessee from North Carolina, Kentucky from Virginia, Maine from Mass. and so on.

Were those states created before or after 1789?

Are you kidding me?  How many states were there when the constitution was signed?  13.

twelve.  

rhode island was very standoffish about the whole thing.  They wouldn't sign it as is, and made a big stink and were eventually threatened with tariffs, etc, if they didn't sign.  In fact, the reason the Bill of Rights was added was to appease the rhode islanders so they'd sign.

[KEmperor]

Also I must say that the creation of West Virginia was unconstitutional. The constitution says no state can be created out of a state or territory. The reason the western Virginia counties voted to become their own state was because they were threatened by the Union w/an option. Stay with Virginia and you will lose your booming railroad economy. Leave and form your own state and you will be able to keep the railroads and gain Union military support. Since in that time period the Eastern counties (Where the railroads were) far outweighed the west in population the formation of WVA was fairly easy. After the war the Federal govt offered WVA back to Virginia. The Federal govt told Virginia they could have the Western counties back if they paid back all their prewar and war debts or let WVA remain a state and split the debts in half with the new state.

Well, acctually, no.  Though that provision exists in the Constitution, it is basically meaningless.  Vermont was created from New York, Tennessee from North Carolina, Kentucky from Virginia, Maine from Mass. and so on.

Were those states created before or after 1789?

Are you kidding me?  How many states were there when the constitution was signed?  13.

twelve.  

rhode island was very standoffish about the whole thing.  They wouldn't sign it as is, and made a big stink and were eventually threatened with tariffs, etc, if they didn't sign.  In fact, the reason the Bill of Rights was added was to appease the rhode islanders so they'd sign.

Not how many states signed the constitution.  How many states existed.

[??????????]

I believe the territories that were broken off from every colony except Maryland was done BEFORE the constitution was signed. If I am getting my history right Maryland refused to sign the Constitution until the other colonies gave up their territory that extended all the way to the pacific ocean.

[angus]

yeah, they all had some special considerations.  I think MD wanted other states to relinquish territories west of the mountains.  (Penn's revenge:  Cleveland still smells like New Jersey.  Ha, I fart in your general direction!)  And virginia wanted proportional representation (the house) and Delaware wanted equal votes for equal states (the senate).  That's why we have a bicameral legislature.  Nevertheless, RI was a special case in that it wanted a Bill of Rights amended to the constitution itself, and was under serious threat, for like a year, of being treated like a foreign power if it didn't ratify.

[© tweed]

Secession