Changing ideologies and growing older...

[Richard]

Many people grow more and more conservative as they grow older.  It seems the mental disorder of liberalism wanes as you get life experience, knowledge, wisdom, and social skills.  Why is that?  Why is it that almost no one gets the disease at an older age, unless something very drastic happens in their life?

Do you think I will become a socialist in the future?

[opebo]

Many people grow more and more conservative as they grow older.  It seems the mental disorder of liberalism wanes as you get life experience, knowledge, wisdom, and social skills.  Why is that?  Why is it that almost no one gets the disease at an older age, unless something very drastic happens in their life?

Old people have given up - they're bitter, and have little to live for.  Naturally they resent that anyone else have any fun.  Also, they are weak and cowardly, and fearing death, they become religious. 

There are few things sadder than people in their 20's and 30's toiling at some job, saving for their 'retirement'.  The epitomy of our mad culture.

[Gabu]

Many people grow more and more conservative as they grow older.  It seems the mental disorder of liberalism wanes as you get life experience, knowledge, wisdom, and social skills.  Why is that?  Why is it that almost no one gets the disease at an older age, unless something very drastic happens in their life?

Do you think I will become a socialist in the future?

I don't think that life experience, knowledge, wisdom, or social skills have anything to do with it.  Most probably just don't want to pay taxes.  There's a reason why "I'll cut taxes" is a sure-fire campaign promise.

[Alcon]

Well, I think there are a number of contributing factors beyond your lovely stereotyping:

1. The idealism of youth wanes and is replaced with hopeful pessimism.

2. Taxes.

3. More likely to be religious, and be providing for a child. Tax cuts, again.

"Why is it that almost no one gets disease at old age, unless something very drastic happens in their life?" is a weird question. I never really found any correlation between drastic events, and I'm not really sure how that relates to politics.

You will probably not become a socialist, but maybe you will end up at the point where you can stop condensing the opinions of those disagreeing with you into a "mental disorder."

[Frodo]

i think when you become older, you become more populist.  you get more socially conservative and religious as the end draws nearer and you think more of death and the life you have led; but as you become more dependant on Medicare and Social Security, you also become more economically liberal as well -you don't want anyone to imperil your economic security through privatization schemes. 

[Alcon]

i think when you become older, you become more populist.  you get more socially conservative as the end draws nearer and you think more of death; but as you become more dependant on Medicare and Social Security, you also become more economically liberal as well -you don't want anyone to imperil your economic security through privatization schemes. 

Maybe seniors are more populist, but people of middle age and middle class are generally probably libertarian-leaning - then again, I suppose it depends heavily on how well-off you are.

[dazzleman]

It depends on the person.

Youth and inexperience breed more extreme opinions, generally.  This occurs on both ends of the political spectrum.

As people gain maturity and experience, they see that things are not always as black and white as they originally thought, in many cases.  But in other cases, they may feel more strongly about something being right or wrong than they did in their youth.

Idealistic liberalism is usually associated with youth.  Conservatism has found it harder to market itself as an idealistic philosophy.  Most people lose some of their idealism as it runs up against the reality of the world, and become less liberal than they were in their youth.

Also, paying your own way has a way of making you less liberal.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also, paying your own way has a way of making you less liberal.

ha, compare me to the 15 year old me!

[angus]

Many people grow more and more conservative as they grow older.  It seems the mental disorder of liberalism wanes as you get life experience, knowledge, wisdom, and social skills.  Why is that?  Why is it that almost no one gets the disease at an older age, unless something very drastic happens in their life?

Do you think I will become a socialist in the future?

well, I wouldn't call it a mental disorder.  There's a common saying that goes like "He who, when young, is not liberal has no heart.  He who, when old, is not conservative, has no head."  I think it's pretty obvious.  When you're a grad student living on a 18 thousand dollar a year government stipend, it's easy to be a socialist.  when you get that first 75 thousand dollar a year job, and find that between Uncle Sam and the State of California, you're net is only about 65% of your gross, it's easy to be a libertarian.  Most of life is complex, but this one really is that simple, I think.

[Richard]

Winston Churchill said that.  It isn't a "common saying."

[angus]

yes, my young and uptight friend, it's a very common saying.  that's another thing you'll realize on your journey through life.  Of course there are alternate versions...  I'll leave it to you to discover them.

[dazzleman]

Also, paying your own way has a way of making you less liberal.

ha, compare me to the 15 year old me!

I seriously doubt you're really paying your own way.  And right now, you seem to have no aspirations for anything better than a bare subsistence way of life, with no future.  You're hardly the norm.

[Richard]

Also, paying your own way has a way of making you less liberal.

ha, compare me to the 15 year old me!

I seriously doubt you're really paying your own way.  And right now, you seem to have no aspirations for anything better than a bare subsistence way of life, with no future.  You're hardly the norm.

And people tell me liberalism isn't a mental disorder.  People tell me I'm condescending towards those people.  People complain I don't treat their kind well enough.  People tell me I'm rude towards them.

BAH.

[dazzleman]

Winston Churchill said that.  It isn't a "common saying."

It's a pretty common thought, one of the versions of which was enumerated by Churchill.

I was never a liberal, so I guess it means I had no heart when I was younger.  I prefer to think that I was able to perceive basic realities in a way that some other people were not, and I actually the results of liberal policies as being cruel, and that was the reason I never supported them.  So in that sense, it was my heart that led me to conservatism.

[Richard]

Winston Churchill said that.  It isn't a "common saying."

It's a pretty common thought, one of the versions of which was enumerated by Churchill.

I was never a liberal, so I guess it means I had no heart when I was younger.  I prefer to think that I was able to perceive basic realities in a way that some other people were not, and I actually the results of liberal policies as being cruel, and that was the reason I never supported them.  So in that sense, it was my heart that led me to conservatism.

Yes, the key is to find balance.  Smart people are conservative, unless they are so smart and so totally disconnected from reality that the disease sets in.  Those people are usually designated PhD.  You want to balance your connection to reality to optimize both sides.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also, paying your own way has a way of making you less liberal.

ha, compare me to the 15 year old me!

I seriously doubt you're really paying your own way.  And right now, you seem to have no aspirations for anything better than a bare subsistence way of life, with no future.  You're hardly the norm.

The only things I'm not paying for are my college education and my auto insurance (since it's not even my car anyway, it's still my parents', I just borrow it)

And you are wrong, I would like to be able to buy a bigger TV, bigger stereo system, more rare records and have more lapdances. The real question is: What would I do if became one of the upper class? I can't think of anything I'd do with that amount of money, since most people who do have that amount buy expensive cars and huge suburban McMansions.

[Frodo]

The real question is: What would I do if became one of the upper class? I can't think of anything I'd do with that amount of money, since most people who do have that amount buy expensive cars and huge suburban McMansions.

well, you could start by becoming a philanthropist like showering endowments on higher education the way Bill Gates and other wealthy businessmen have done, and/or you could help fund NGOs that deal with issues that you care about. 

[angus]

Also, paying your own way has a way of making you less liberal.

ha, compare me to the 15 year old me!

I seriously doubt you're really paying your own way.  And right now, you seem to have no aspirations for anything better than a bare subsistence way of life, with no future.  You're hardly the norm.

And people tell me liberalism isn't a mental disorder.  People tell me I'm condescending towards those people.  People complain I don't treat their kind well enough.  People tell me I'm rude towards them.

BAH.

well, you can be a tad intimidating at times.  for example, in 18 months of posting here, the only time I was ever expressly invited to leave the thread or to change my post was by you.  but that's a bit beyond the scope of the current thread.  anyway, no, I don't think it's widely regarded as a disorder.  The comment to Born on the Floor was very specific in content and target.  Don't generalize beyond its intention, if I may be so bold as to interpret.

Anyway, just to clarify, by changing ideologies, I mean strictly on Right/Left terms, where right is closer to libertarian and left is more socialist.  I have no comment on the "wedge issue" ideology changes.  As far as I can tell, I have had none.  I'd imagine that these changes are much less common than the strictly Left-to-Right progression which normally accompanies aging.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

But I'm not going to go through all the trouble of working very hard and stressful jobs to make more money than I need. Now if I found an easy way to get tons of money, I would use that and use the money on more stereos, TVs, records, lapdances, etc. See my post about the Minneapolis guy who's a high school dropout and made over 100 grand last year with no job, by simply suing telemarketers. Now THAT'S my type of model. As it is I would simply rather work an easy job that gives me enough money to buy what I want, rather than work a hard job just so I can be rich just for the hell of it.

[Richard]

But I'm not going to go through all the trouble of working very hard and stressful jobs to make more money than I need. Now if I found an easy way to get tons of money, I would use that and use the money on more stereos, TVs, records, lapdances, etc.

You mean you wouldn't donate 80% of away to the government?  Hypocrite.

[dazzleman]

But I'm not going to go through all the trouble of working very hard and stressful jobs to make more money than I need. Now if I found an easy way to get tons of money, I would use that and use the money on more stereos, TVs, records, lapdances, etc. See my post about the Minneapolis guy who's a high school dropout and made over 100 grand last year with no job, by simply suing telemarketers. Now THAT'S my type of model. As it is I would simply rather work an easy job that gives me enough money to buy what I want, rather than work a hard job just so I can be rich just for the hell of it.

Nothing wrong with your priorities, as long as you don't expect others to pay your way.  Somehow, I think you will.

[Richard]

well, you can be a tad intimidating at times.  for example, in 18 months of posting here, the only time I was ever expressly invited to leave the thread or to change my post was by you.  but that's a bit beyond the scope of the current thread.  anyway, no, I don't think it's widely regarded as a disorder.  The comment to Born on the Floor was very specific in content and target.  Don't generalize beyond its intention, if I may be so bold as to interpret

Well yes.  In case someone didn't observe, I take being opinionated to a whole new level.  What is even cooler is that I am not your cookie cutter conservative (being African American and not straight with more libertarian beliefs socially) and I can really nail liberals to a tree in no time when they try their puny "arguments" (excuses really, for being lazy, on welfare, disadvantaged, stupid, or some other thing in life that isn't "fair.") on me in real life about how disadvantaged gays and African Americans and immigrants are.  And being the ideological lazy morons they are on campus (the neo commies), they get worked up a lot when I write about them as having a mental disorder or a virus or suffering from laziness & welfare syndrome. (I have a column in the school paper that is rather controversial.)

This may explain why I like that bitch Coulter.   Wonderful woman.

[angus]

But I'm not going to go through all the trouble of working very hard and stressful jobs to make more money than I need. Now if I found an easy way to get tons of money, I would use that and use the money on more stereos, TVs, records, lapdances, etc. See my post about the Minneapolis guy who's a high school dropout and made over 100 grand last year with no job, by simply suing telemarketers. Now THAT'S my type of model. As it is I would simply rather work an easy job that gives me enough money to buy what I want, rather than work a hard job just so I can be rich just for the hell of it.

you may not be old enough to remember it, but there was an old mullet-rock song by a band I've seen 3 times in 3 different venues called Boston that captures that sentiment well.  The name of the song is "Peace of Mind" and I used to go around singing it, stoned, with my stoned leftist friends back in middle school.  I'm not sure the general idea of not wanting to contribute to the rat-racing stress is uncommon.  What is uncommon is not to eventually outgrow that philosophy.  As far as the sue-happy mentality, that's hardly marxist and is generally considered, worldwide, as quintessentially American, I can assure you.  It is not a philosophy you want to go around bragging about in any circles.  Here or abroad.  I'll assume you already know this and were just making a very tacky joke.

[Gabu]

This thread has certainly degenerated in a hurry into a raging self-masturbatory liberal bash-fest.

[angus]

Well, when the current "liberal" position is to sue telemarketing firms as a primary source of income, it's rather difficult not to, wouldn't you say?  In any case, the only liberal being bashed here seems to be able to take for himself just fine.