When did the parties switch platforms?
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  When did the parties switch platforms?
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Author Topic: When did the parties switch platforms?  (Read 25393 times)
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #100 on: March 24, 2018, 12:23:02 PM »



I would say 1896 not 1908


McKinley was way to the right of Bryan and TR actually was put on the ticket because being a vp then meant the end to Presidential aspirations
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #101 on: March 24, 2018, 01:49:26 PM »

This does not mean the parties haven’t radically changed over time, but if you believe “the parties switched,” you are dumb.  No way around it.

Sorry, Old School!
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #102 on: March 24, 2018, 02:16:18 PM »

This does not mean the parties haven’t radically changed over time, but if you believe “the parties switched,” you are dumb.  No way around it.

Sorry, Old School!


Well I said 1896 when Democrats became solidly the more left wing party

From 1876-1896 both parties were basically the same
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2018, 04:41:14 PM »

Could people stop with this insane idea that the Republicans were ever a "liberal" party in the American sense? They have been the party of big business and Wall Street from the 1870s to present. Hell, they weren't even "liberal" in the European sense in the 19th century: they were arch-protectionists and major supporters of high tariffs (both for protecting American business and for revenue purposes).

The big shift isn't in the party platforms so much as who made up the party. The mass defection of African-Americans from the GOP to the Dems from 1930s-1960s ended up making the Northern Democrats the party of civil rights (can't get elected in NY or IL or etc without the black vote), which alienated white conservative Southern Democrats and gradually pushed them into the GOP in the 1970s-2000s. It's inaccurate to say the parties "switched platforms" generally, though. The main groups that made up the GOP in the 1920s (big business, highly-paid professionals, Midwestern farmers) are still all mostly Republican groups, while the main groups behind Northern Democrats (recent immigrants, labor unionists, religious minorities, the poor) are mainly still Democratic voting blocs.

Most people can't see past "racist Alabama redneck voted Democrat in 1890, racist Alabama redneck voted Republican in 2016; conclusion: parties are opposite now."

LOL exactly.

One sentence argument: There has literally never been a time from the GOP's founding in the 1850s to present at which the Republican Party wasn't the party of Wall Street and Big Business.
Progressive Era.


and the GOP basically drove Teddy out of the party




In 1916, TR addressed the Progressive Party, stating that the best thing Progressives could do was to rejoin the GOP, which many did.
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #104 on: March 24, 2018, 05:28:43 PM »
« Edited: March 24, 2018, 05:53:32 PM by Old School Republican »

Could people stop with this insane idea that the Republicans were ever a "liberal" party in the American sense? They have been the party of big business and Wall Street from the 1870s to present. Hell, they weren't even "liberal" in the European sense in the 19th century: they were arch-protectionists and major supporters of high tariffs (both for protecting American business and for revenue purposes).

The big shift isn't in the party platforms so much as who made up the party. The mass defection of African-Americans from the GOP to the Dems from 1930s-1960s ended up making the Northern Democrats the party of civil rights (can't get elected in NY or IL or etc without the black vote), which alienated white conservative Southern Democrats and gradually pushed them into the GOP in the 1970s-2000s. It's inaccurate to say the parties "switched platforms" generally, though. The main groups that made up the GOP in the 1920s (big business, highly-paid professionals, Midwestern farmers) are still all mostly Republican groups, while the main groups behind Northern Democrats (recent immigrants, labor unionists, religious minorities, the poor) are mainly still Democratic voting blocs.

Most people can't see past "racist Alabama redneck voted Democrat in 1890, racist Alabama redneck voted Republican in 2016; conclusion: parties are opposite now."

LOL exactly.

One sentence argument: There has literally never been a time from the GOP's founding in the 1850s to present at which the Republican Party wasn't the party of Wall Street and Big Business.
Progressive Era.


and the GOP basically drove Teddy out of the party




In 1916, TR addressed the Progressive Party, stating that the best thing Progressives could do was to rejoin the GOP, which many did.

And had no power from 1920-1932


The GOP in the 1920s probably the most right wing American party which held power since the 1850s
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #105 on: March 24, 2018, 07:18:54 PM »

You guys are missing the point. The parties didn't change, the ideologies did.


Liberalism became less concerned about liberty and more about economic equality. Conservatism reacted to this in 1890's and 1900's and became more concerned about expansion of gov't in response. The same evolution occurred in Britain.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #106 on: March 25, 2018, 07:17:14 PM »

Is it possible that when Ted Cruz said "New York values", he was tapping into beliefs left over from 19-century anti-Catholicism?
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #107 on: March 25, 2018, 08:29:05 PM »

The one constant is that Republicans have always had more support from small business owners, from family farmers tired of competing with slave labor in 1856 straight through to 2016.  Big business has been somewhere between uniformly Republican (1856-76, 1920-1992) to tilting Republican overall with some sectors voting heavily Democratic (1880-1916, 1996ish-present).
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #108 on: March 26, 2018, 01:49:37 AM »

The one constant is that Republicans have always had more support from small business owners, from family farmers tired of competing with slave labor in 1856 straight through to 2016.  Big business has been somewhere between uniformly Republican (1856-76, 1920-1992) to tilting Republican overall with some sectors voting heavily Democratic (1880-1916, 1996ish-present).
Which sectors of big business voted Democratic in 1880-1916 and which sectors have voted Democratic since 1996ish?
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« Reply #109 on: March 26, 2018, 02:32:08 AM »

The one constant is that Republicans have always had more support from small business owners, from family farmers tired of competing with slave labor in 1856 straight through to 2016.  Big business has been somewhere between uniformly Republican (1856-76, 1920-1992) to tilting Republican overall with some sectors voting heavily Democratic (1880-1916, 1996ish-present).

I have a hard time believing any sector of Big Business voted for Bryan or Wilson
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #110 on: March 26, 2018, 09:53:27 AM »

The one constant is that Republicans have always had more support from small business owners, from family farmers tired of competing with slave labor in 1856 straight through to 2016.  Big business has been somewhere between uniformly Republican (1856-76, 1920-1992) to tilting Republican overall with some sectors voting heavily Democratic (1880-1916, 1996ish-present).
Which sectors of big business voted Democratic in 1880-1916 and which sectors have voted Democratic since 1996ish?

As for post-1996 (but also before), the tech industry has certainly favored Democrats.  Wall Street has clearly favored Republicans, but they're also non-partisan enough that they'll throw their weight behind a clear winner (see donations to Obama in 2008) when it suits their future interests.  Regarding the 1880-1916 period, I would disagree that big business was ever a "swingy" group during that time frame, but obviously Southern big business favored Democrats, and - even though their importance and influence have been greatly exaggerated, IMO - the Bourbon Democrats were certainly a thing.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2018, 03:30:08 PM »

The one constant is that Republicans have always had more support from small business owners, from family farmers tired of competing with slave labor in 1856 straight through to 2016.  Big business has been somewhere between uniformly Republican (1856-76, 1920-1992) to tilting Republican overall with some sectors voting heavily Democratic (1880-1916, 1996ish-present).

I have a hard time believing any sector of Big Business voted for Bryan or Wilson

But no problems with Cleveland, Parker, or Tilden.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #112 on: March 27, 2018, 11:07:07 PM »

Oh how I love these threads.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #113 on: March 29, 2018, 04:37:08 PM »

The one constant is that Republicans have always had more support from small business owners, from family farmers tired of competing with slave labor in 1856 straight through to 2016.  Big business has been somewhere between uniformly Republican (1856-76, 1920-1992) to tilting Republican overall with some sectors voting heavily Democratic (1880-1916, 1996ish-present).

I have a hard time believing any sector of Big Business voted for Bryan or Wilson

But no problems with Cleveland, Parker, or Tilden.

The obvious answer would be any business that benefited from free trade would lean Democrat, while the ones wanting protectionism were certainly more Republican leaning.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #114 on: March 31, 2018, 06:12:32 PM »

I also dispute the idea that "Big Business," in any way, didn't favor the GOP over the Democrats straight through the Progressive Era.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #115 on: April 06, 2018, 05:07:00 PM »

I really hate when people say things like, "Obama would have been a Klansman and Trump would have supported MLK Jr.", "Lyndon opposed civil rights and Goldwater supported civil rights", etc.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #116 on: April 07, 2018, 05:56:18 PM »

^ No one says any of that.
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fluffypanther19
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« Reply #117 on: April 07, 2018, 10:29:07 PM »

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MATTROSE94
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« Reply #118 on: April 08, 2018, 01:35:51 PM »

On economic isues, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party gradually switched between 1896 and 1932, whereas on social issues, both parties gradually switched positions between 1928 and 2010.
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MATTROSE94
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« Reply #119 on: April 08, 2018, 08:09:29 PM »

My history teacher in 9th and 12th grade said similar things lol. He was an ultra-conservative Republican who said that both parties essentially had the same platforms since the 1800s.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2018, 11:21:17 PM »

You guys are missing the point. The parties didn't change, the ideologies did.


Liberalism became less concerned about liberty and more about economic equality. Conservatism reacted to this in 1890's and 1900's and became more concerned about expansion of gov't in response. The same evolution occurred in Britain.

This...actually makes sense in a way I don't think most contemporary media or people really articulate.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #121 on: April 09, 2018, 02:18:08 AM »

Dinesh D'Souza says those things, as do comments and forum arguments whenever the argument of the parties switching comes up.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #122 on: April 10, 2018, 01:06:33 PM »

My history teacher in 9th and 12th grade said similar things lol. He was an ultra-conservative Republican who said that both parties essentially had the same platforms since the 1800s.

Well, no one not stupid says any of that.  It takes a seriously ignorant person to think political parties stay the same over centuries or that our two parties "switched" platform or ideologies, even gradually.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #123 on: April 10, 2018, 01:13:33 PM »

My history teacher in 9th and 12th grade said similar things lol. He was an ultra-conservative Republican who said that both parties essentially had the same platforms since the 1800s.

Well, no one not stupid says any of that.  It takes a seriously ignorant person to think political parties stay the same over centuries or that our two parties "switched" platform or ideologies, even gradually.
I'm afraid you underestimate how many stupid people there are.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #124 on: April 10, 2018, 03:21:21 PM »

My history teacher in 9th and 12th grade said similar things lol. He was an ultra-conservative Republican who said that both parties essentially had the same platforms since the 1800s.

Well, no one not stupid says any of that.  It takes a seriously ignorant person to think political parties stay the same over centuries or that our two parties "switched" platform or ideologies, even gradually.
I'm afraid you underestimate how many stupid people there are.

I don't think I commented on the number of stupid people in existence. Smiley
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