Terrorist takeover of Federal building in Oregon

[Frodo]

Just send in federal officers with handcuffs. If they surrender without a fight, it proves they're all talk and no action and discredits their agenda. If they fire shots, it proves they're radical terrorists and what happens after is strictly their fault.

Or, alternately, just wait them out.  No violence involved. 

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Just cut off all utilities and supplies and see if they're man enough to handle the winter.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

(Regarding the previous post) And I seem to recall protesting liberals saying trespassing (in parks after hours) was not a crime because people have a right to exist and the government can't dictate where they are (and the sane ones at least limited that to non-private places) - any abridgment of the right to exist was a violation of human rights even for the reason of safety after hours during toxic situations in residential areas.

Yeah, the rank hypocrisy of the radical left supporting communists seizing public parks but opposing militia nuts seizing federal buildings is pretty amazing.

Me, I think the law needs to come down on both of them.

[YaBoyNY]

As usual, conservatives and those on the right don't see the difference between this and OWS/BLM

Not the first time the right has been unable to think clearly and see the bigger picture, and unfortunately not the last.

[Cassius]

As usual, conservatives and those on the right don't see the difference between this and OWS/BLM

Not the first time the right has been unable to think clearly and see the bigger picture, and unfortunately not the last.

What is the difference? They all are acting/have acted in a way injurious to public order. Of course, the OWS and BLM activists were probably causing considerably more inconvenience to the general public than these wackos who are occupying a bunch of isolated cabins, as opposed to protesting and generally causing disruption in major urban centres.

[Slander and/or Libel]

So what does that mean? That if you're in a remote enough area you should be able to disregard whatever laws you feel like because you're not in an urban center?

It doesn't matter that these guys have weapons, they have claimed and are holding territory, and have threatened violence if the owners of that territory try to claim it?

[DINGO Joe]

As usual, conservatives and those on the right don't see the difference between this and OWS/BLM

Not the first time the right has been unable to think clearly and see the bigger picture, and unfortunately not the last.

What is the difference? They all are acting/have acted in a way injurious to public order. Of course, the OWS and BLM activists were probably causing considerably more inconvenience to the general public than these wackos who are occupying a bunch of isolated cabins, as opposed to protesting and generally causing disruption in major urban centres.

The guns are the difference, they raise "inconvience" to whole different level.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

That poor cabin, it wasn't hurting anyone!    We must come to its defense immediately! Who among you is man enough to stand and offer up their lives for the cause?

[Orthogonian Society Treasurer]

For those of us old enough to remember:



Is this what the right-wing militias are hoping for?  

That's exactly what I'd do if I was the governor. Set the place on fire and say, "You're either coming out with your hands up, or you'll fry." Then try the ones who do come out with sedition and throw them in prison for life.

Your eagerness to burn dozens of children to death probably disqualifies you from holding elected office. Don't quit the mail room yet, son.

[Torie]

If it were me, I would just wait them out, although prevent others from entering the zone. They can enjoy their winter there. There is absolutely no rush, and once the media disappears, the whole enterprise will be starved for oxygen, and suffocate as it were.

[Hydera]

If it were me, I would just wait them out, although prevent others from entering the zone. They can enjoy their winter there. There is absolutely no rush, and once the media disappears, the whole enterprise will be starved for oxygen, and suffocate as it were.

Just fence off the place as to block them from getting supplies, and only let them out if they surrender.

I dont care if they starve to death.

[YaBoyNY]

As usual, conservatives and those on the right don't see the difference between this and OWS/BLM

Not the first time the right has been unable to think clearly and see the bigger picture, and unfortunately not the last.

What is the difference? They all are acting/have acted in a way injurious to public order. Of course, the OWS and BLM activists were probably causing considerably more inconvenience to the general public than these wackos who are occupying a bunch of isolated cabins, as opposed to protesting and generally causing disruption in major urban centres.

I may be crazy, but I think guns are a pretty big difference.

Maybe just me though.

[Mr. Reactionary]

As usual, conservatives and those on the right don't see the difference between this and OWS/BLM

Not the first time the right has been unable to think clearly and see the bigger picture, and unfortunately not the last.

What is the difference? They all are acting/have acted in a way injurious to public order. Of course, the OWS and BLM activists were probably causing considerably more inconvenience to the general public than these wackos who are occupying a bunch of isolated cabins, as opposed to protesting and generally causing disruption in major urban centres.

I may be crazy, but I think guns are a pretty big difference.

Maybe just me though.

The guns are more of a prop than anything at this point. This is a rouges gallery of some of the nuttiest nuts of the radical faction of the militia movement. They've said some hyperbolic things, but I don't see them offensively starting the shooting. Even Kerodin, whose faction is always huffing and puffing about "going hot" and shooting bureaucrats as well as their family members is non-committal on reprisals. There are between 15 - 20 at most on the ground in Oregon; there were hundreds at the 2014 Bundy standoff.

Matt Bracken,  an influential author in the movement posted: "Some might believe that the Oregon Standoff is our Concord Bridge. Some might believe that it is our Fort Sumter moment.
But I think that the Oregon Standoff is a buffalo jump. The feds and their agents-provocateurs embedded among the Oregon "militia" patsies are waving blankets and smoky torches around the buffalo herd. Foolish people are running at a gallop right toward a cliff."

Vanderboegh's faction is staying out of it. Oath Keepers is staying out of it. Poppa Bundy is staying out of it. With no backup coming the few nuts on the ground aren't going to do anything, because nobody else is coming to bail them out.

18 U.S.C. § 930(d)(3), which prohibits the carrying of guns in federal buildings has an exception for "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." So if they say they're hunting + camping + protesting, which they kind of are, the guns don't really seem out of place, so long as the persons carrying them are allowed to do so under state law. Open carry is legal in Oregon. Yeah guns can be dangerous, but their being in such a rural place is different than if they were doing this in Zucotti Park.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I mean, guns aside, Occupy caused millions of dollars in damage and lost revenue, assaulted officers and shook down local businesses, menaced private citizens with open threats of mass murder, and fringe elements plotted to blow up a bridge. Until such a time as they escalate - which could happen - this Bundy clown show is hiding in a shed.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Apparently law enforcement isn't stopping these guys from coming and going as they please. That kind of baffles me.

Maybe if they're playing eleventh dimensional chess, they're attempting to make it more difficult for these guys to claim that they were under any hardship whatsoever.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

It is ironic how the people who defend cops when they shoot and killed unarmed civilians will be on this guys side instead in this case...they had an interview with a guy completely implying that you better not come or i will shoot. If this was a black gang the same people would be calling them "Thugs" and Criminals.

[Lief 🗽]

"the guns are just a prop"

"guns aside"

hahah okay guys

[YaBoyNY]

As usual, conservatives and those on the right don't see the difference between this and OWS/BLM

Not the first time the right has been unable to think clearly and see the bigger picture, and unfortunately not the last.

What is the difference? They all are acting/have acted in a way injurious to public order. Of course, the OWS and BLM activists were probably causing considerably more inconvenience to the general public than these wackos who are occupying a bunch of isolated cabins, as opposed to protesting and generally causing disruption in major urban centres.

I may be crazy, but I think guns are a pretty big difference.

Maybe just me though.

The guns are more of a prop than anything at this point. This is a rouges gallery of some of the nuttiest nuts of the radical faction of the militia movement. They've said some hyperbolic things, but I don't see them offensively starting the shooting. Even Kerodin, whose faction is always huffing and puffing about "going hot" and shooting bureaucrats as well as their family members is non-committal on reprisals. There are between 15 - 20 at most on the ground in Oregon; there were hundreds at the 2014 Bundy standoff.

Matt Bracken,  an influential author in the movement posted: "Some might believe that the Oregon Standoff is our Concord Bridge. Some might believe that it is our Fort Sumter moment.
But I think that the Oregon Standoff is a buffalo jump. The feds and their agents-provocateurs embedded among the Oregon "militia" patsies are waving blankets and smoky torches around the buffalo herd. Foolish people are running at a gallop right toward a cliff."

Vanderboegh's faction is staying out of it. Oath Keepers is staying out of it. Poppa Bundy is staying out of it. With no backup coming the few nuts on the ground aren't going to do anything, because nobody else is coming to bail them out.

18 U.S.C. § 930(d)(3), which prohibits the carrying of guns in federal buildings has an exception for "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." So if they say they're hunting + camping + protesting, which they kind of are, the guns don't really seem out of place, so long as the persons carrying them are allowed to do so under state law. Open carry is legal in Oregon. Yeah guns can be dangerous, but their being in such a rural place is different than if they were doing this in Zucotti Park.

I'm sure the federal officers are comfortable knowing that you consider the weapons that these terrorists hold to be mere props.

It takes away all the danger, truly.

[ingemann]

Just send in federal officers with handcuffs. If they surrender without a fight, it proves they're all talk and no action and discredits their agenda. If they fire shots, it proves they're radical terrorists and what happens after is strictly their fault.

Why do you want federal officers to risk their lives over a bunch of morons occupying some buildings in the middle of nowhere, when they can just wait until they get tired and go home?

[Edu]

- "These hypocritical far left leftists radical communists complain now, but they give a pass to BLM and OWS. The people in oregon are the same, what's the difference between them?"

- "The guys in oregon have guns"

- "jfgvjkdsvdbbhashcbhdbhcsabhc, Weeeeeell, ASIDE from guns, what's the difference, you left leftist commies radicals?

[DC Al Fine]

So what does that mean? That if you're in a remote enough area you should be able to disregard whatever laws you feel like because you're not in an urban center?

No, but let's not be naive and pretend that location doesn't affect how serious a crime is. It's illegal to fire a handgun for the most part in Canada, but obviously there's a huge difference between doing so in the middle of the woods vs downtown, even if you're just firing straight up in the air.

[tschandler]

Not a supporter of Y'AllQaeda or whatever we are calling it but yet again Reason strikes the right tone.

https://reason.com/archives/2016/01/07/whatevers-going-on-in-oregon-its-not-ter

[Ebsy]

As usual, #hottakes are flying off the presses over at Reason.

[Slander and/or Libel]

So what does that mean? That if you're in a remote enough area you should be able to disregard whatever laws you feel like because you're not in an urban center?

No, but let's not be naive and pretend that location doesn't affect how serious a crime is. It's illegal to fire a handgun for the most part in Canada, but obviously there's a huge difference between doing so in the middle of the woods vs downtown, even if you're just firing straight up in the air.

I certainly don't disagree with the example you gave, but I don't think it's particularly analogous to what's going on here.

[Ebowed]

The fact that people are even comparing this to BLM at all is indicative of the sad state of political discourse.  I guess it doesn't help that the Republican presidential candidates are too cowardly to stand up to these right-wing terrorists.  Donald Trump says he'd stand outside and tell them to "get out."  Ha ha!