Gay/Lesbian vote historically

[DS0816]

LGBT persons overwhelmingly vote Democratic because that party is better suited in leadership for their rights.

LGBT persons who vote Republican—especially homosexual men—are viewed by other LGBT persons, who absolutely will not vote Republican, as sick.

In addition to being sick, the Republican-voting LGBT people are viewed as living compartmentalized lives in which they don’t mind other LGBT persons having been discriminated against in not only marriage, but in adoption and in employment, et al.

LGBT persons—especially homosexual men—are viewed by other LGBT persons, who will not vote Republican, as having sold out for shallow excuses such as lower taxes and military support—without a care for what directly does affect their own lives, such as to love, marry, and raise children with their same-sex love. And LGBT persons who will not vote Republican view those LGBT persons—especially homosexual men—who vote Republican as having been embracing of the discrimination against LGBT persons because those Republican-voting LGBT persons are more likely to be the ones in the closet, not out to family members, and resentful to those who are out to family, friends, and in where they are employed.

LGBT persons who will not vote Republican view those LGBT persons—especially homosexual men—who vote Republican as destructive, and self-destructive, people who want the LGBT community to be held back in everything they have had to, and continue to have to, fight for in society.

[DS0816]

I wonder whats the demographic profile of those 30% of gays who vote for the GOP candidate. My guess is that some of it is trolling/checked the box by mistake. While the rest are probably either wealthy gays OR gays that are quite religious.

Why? There are LGBT people who don’t think that’s what primarily defines their political identity, you know.

Yes, I know the type. Utterly intolerable. Pretentious snobs who have gobs of money because they never had kids, have good careers, and are just “mee mee mee mee” all the way home! (...) they just want their civil rights, but don’t want to contribute to the society that makes that and all of their highfalutin’ possible.

The idea that LGBT people should automatically vote Democratic just because they are LGBT seems pretty offensive. Perhaps it doesn’t work like that in the world of intersectionality, but LGBTs, too, have the right to define their politics themselves. Being LGBT and in favor of same-sex marriage doesn’t mean one automatically has to make that a decisive factor when voting.

DavidB.,

Point No. 1 is not exactly getting it. It isn’t “political identity.” It’s one’s very own identity. And sexual identity is a major factor in a LGBT person’s identity. There is no avoiding that. A LGBT person who votes Republican—a party whose platform is well-established in being against LGBT people’s rights—may do everything he/she can to suppress himself/herself, which is part of the “compartmentalization” I mentioned previously but, even if never having had sex with another person his/her entire life, that doesn’t change the fact that we all have a sexual identity and that Republican-voting LGBT person’s efforts to suppress himself-herself fail. And, in reality, being not among the majority of people, who are heterosexual, is not avoidable to people who are among the LGBT community. So, that is key to why LGBT people, who make sure to not vote Republican, view those LGBT persons—especially homosexual men—who do vote Republican, for a party which has actively worked against all LGBT people (like with George W. Bush’s 2004 re-election campaign to get a constitutional amendment banning same-sex couples from being able to get married), as being “sick.” Those Republican-voting LGBT persons are looked at as sick because, by voting for a political party actively working against their rights, that is a form of self-loathing. And the compartmentalization of it—with the “excuses” like one’s pocketbook, the lower taxes, the military—are typical of a Republican-voting LGBT person’s attempts to justify his/her votes for a political party which also works against that Republican-voting LGBT person.

Point No. 2 is not accurate. LGBT people, who make sure to not vote Republican, are not necessarily urging those Republican-voting LGBT persons—especially homosexual men—to become automatically Democratic-voting. Those non-Republican LGBT people want Republican LGBT persons to stop voting for Republicans because of that party’s positions on the LGBT people and their rights—that the Republicans want discrimination against LGBT people. So, if there is anything in this that is “offensive”…it is that the LGBT people, who will not vote for the Republicans, are the ones who are offended by the Republican-voting LGBT persons who do vote for a political party which actively works against the people—including that Republican-voting LGBT person.

[DS0816]

Your elaborate post merits a response on my part, so here I go.

DavidB.,

Point No. 1 is not exactly getting it. It isn’t “political identity.” It’s one’s very own identity.

Sure, but the extent of the “politicalness” of one’s own identity is not set in stone. People get to decide on that themselves.

An LGBT person does not have the same reality as a heterosexual person.

And sexual identity is a major factor in a LGBT person’s identity.

Is it? For everyone? I think people get to decide on that themselves. And even if it is, does this necessarily translate into being a major factor in one’s political identity?

Again…heterosexuals and LGBT persons are not comparable in the points you have expressed. They don’t have the same reality. Yes, there are LGBT people who are conservative. But, before you get carried away, that would also be a false assumption that this current Republican Party is conservative. (They are not.) And, the reality of a person not being heterosexual, considering the numerous issues regarding LGBT people’s civil rights are in the political arena, is absolutely a factor.

A LGBT person who votes Republican—a party whose platform is well-established in being against LGBT people’s rights—may do everything he/she can to suppress himself/herself, which is part of the “compartmentalization”. I mentioned previously but, even if never having had sex with another person his/her entire life, that doesn’t change the fact that we all have a sexual identity and that Republican-voting LGBT person’s efforts to suppress himself-herself fail.

I vehemently disagree. Being LGBT does not mean one automatically has to consider LGBT rights the most important political issue. One can be perfectly happy with one’s identity (apart from that, LGBTs, just as non-LGBTs, also have a right not to be happy with their identities), be in favor of same-sex marriage and the like, disagree with the Republican position on this, yet find themselves compelled to vote for the GOP nonetheless, because of, for instance, reasons related to national security.

Then what you’re saying is that LGBT persons—which very much includes homosexual men—do not need to “consider” their own rights an “important political issue,” let alone “the most.” That’s incorrect. No one who has become an adult, has a sexual identity, can write themselves off—let alone people who are among the LGBT, including homosexual men. LGBT people want the same rights as heterosexual people with regard to  basics—like who they have love and have sex with, who they can marry, who they have a family with, where they can live, where they can work, et al. These are not issues which tend to affect the majority of people, who are heterosexual, because they don’t have to concern themselves with such issues.

And, in reality, being not among the majority of people, who are heterosexual, is not avoidable to people who are among the LGBT community. So, that is key to why LGBT people, who make sure to not vote Republican, view those LGBT persons—especially homosexual men—who do vote Republican, for a party which has actively worked against all LGBT people (like with George W. Bush’s 2004 re-election campaign to get a constitutional amendment banning same-sex couples from being able to get married), as being “sick.” Those Republican-voting LGBT persons are looked at as sick because, by voting for a political party actively working against their rights, that is a form of self-loathing.

I can understand this criticism, which is essentially about the question what it is that primarily defines one’s identity. Anti-Republican LGBTs think LGBTs should prioritize their identity as LGBTs when voting, and therefore think LGBTs should not vote Republican. The problem with this argument, to me, is that LGBTs have a right to define their own identities, socially as well as politically. To state that all LGBTs should vote Democratic is to negate LGBT people’s agency, whereas this agency to define one’s own political identity is, in fact, considered acceptable when a person is not LGBT. Therefore, this opinion is problematic in that it denies people the right to define their own identity because of their sexual orientation.

There is no denial of toward LGBT persons to be individuals. But when it comes to “defin[ing] their own identities,” they are, in fact, not heterosexual. This is identity. Sexual identity. And this a huge, important part of the overall makeup of every LGBT person. There is no avoiding that. There is no…casting aside one’s personal identity as a human being who is loving and sexual (and is not heterosexual), and who is discriminated against where laws permit. Of course that is personal. (How can that not be personal? Would a heterosexual person be okay if they told who they can love and have sex with, who they can marry, who they can have a family with, where they can live, where they can work, et al.?) All the actions, the policies, the platform of the Republican Party…they work against LGBT people, including those LGBT persons who vote for Republicans, and are correctly perceived as destructive by LGBT persons who refuse to vote for the Republicans.

LGBT people, who will not vote for the Republicans, view Republican-voting LGBT persons as being not only self-loathing and self-destructive but also damaging to all LGBT people for their civil rights. The LGBT people, who will not vote for the Republicans, view Republican-voting LGBT persons as being in bed with the Republican Party to work against all LGBT people.

[DS0816]

More from DavidB.

And the compartmentalization of it—with the “excuses” like one’s pocketbook, the lower taxes, the military—are typical of a Republican-voting LGBT person’s attempts to justify his/her votes for a political party which also works against that Republican-voting LGBT person.

You say these are “excuses”. Why does that have to be true? Couldn’t it be that Republican LGBTs are actually just as accepting of the fact that they are LGBTs as Democratic LGBTs, yet they do actually think one’s pocketbook, lower taxes and the military are more important than LGBT rights? (The answer is: yes.)

The LGBT people, who will not vote for the Republicans, view the Republican-voting LGBT persons with making “excuses” because those Republican-voting LGBT persons have, over time, made attempts to explain why they vote for a political party which works against all LGBT people, including that Republican-voting LGBT person. (Think of the Log Cabin Republicans and the defunct GOProud.) And, no, the LGBT people who will not vote for Republicans recognize that the rights all LGBT persons are not less important than one’s pocketbook (money can be replaced), lower taxes (which have, over time, been adjusted), and the military (which is No. 1 in the world). It is fantasy material, from heterosexuals and from Republican-voting LGBT persons, that there should be LGBT people who are willing to make their civil rights, their own personal best interests, unimportant (or less so). It’s been welcomed by  Republican voters, and this seems to include you, to see any LGBT person vote against his/her best interests and give their vote to the Republicans. (For the Republican Party: that Republican-voting LGBT person, especially a homosexual male, is one more vote. They’ll gladly take it.)

For people who are among the LGBT community, the discrimination and hatred by by those who work against them, they do not have equal protections like heterosexuals do (for example, with employment), throughout the United States. So, it really is no wonder why LGBT people, who will not vote for Republicans, view those Republican-voting LGBT persons—especially homosexual men—as being damaging, self-destructive, and sick.

Point No. 2 is not accurate. LGBT people, who make sure to not vote Republican, are not necessarily urging those Republican-voting LGBT persons—especially homosexual men—to become automatically Democratic-voting. Those non-Republican LGBT people want Republican LGBT persons to stop voting for Republicans because of that party’s positions on the LGBT people and their rights—that the Republicans want discrimination against LGBT people.

- Not all Republicans “want discrimination against LGBT people”.
- “People don’t necessarily have to become Democrats, they should just stop being Republicans” doesn’t really work in a political landscape that effectively functions as a two-party system.

• Point No. 1: It’s in the Republican Party’s platform (“Institution of traditional marriage is the foundation of society”) and their actions in politics which include laws. (No one should forget that Republican politicians are the ones getting with religious groups for laws, like Religious Rights, which are discrimination against LGBT people.)
• Point No. 2: People do have choices. They may perceive, as you have expressed, a two-party system leaving us all essentially with no choice. But, people have the option to vote outside the two major political parties. And they also can make the choice to refrain from voting. Given the turnout rate, for presidential and non-presidential elections, are not 100 percent of all eligible voters, it’s obvious that many people do that. However, when LGBT persons vote Republican, they are choosing to participate in voting, yes, and they are—from the view of LGBT people who will not vote Republican—making the choice to give their voting support to a political party which is against all LGBT people, including that Republican-voting LGBT person.

So, if there is anything in this that is “offensive”…it is that the LGBT people, who will not vote for the Republicans, are the ones who are offended by the Republican-voting LGBT persons who do vote for a political party which actively works against the people—including that Republican-voting LGBT person.

You might find that to be offensive, but I find to be offensive the idea that LGBT persons should always take into account LGBT issues as a decisive factor when voting and when defining their political identities. Just as any non-LGBT person, LGBTs have a right to define their political identities as they wish, on issues they themselves deem to be important. Of course everyone has the right to judge and evaluate negatively other people’s political views or voting behavior, but let’s please not hold LGBT Republicans to different standards than non-LGBT Republicans.

Heterosexuals don’t have to think about their sexual identity when voting. LGBT people, who don’t live compartmentalized lives, face their reality. There is no separation of a LGBT’s person’s sexual identity from politics. Governance includes everyone. As Cornel West said, “You may not be into politics. But politics is into you.” This is very much the case with all LGBT persons. So, when it comes to this issue’s viewpoint from the overwhelming majority of LGBT persons: They view the Republican Party as being the enemy to the LGBT community’s well-being with regard for their civil rights. And that is enough to inform even the staunchest Republican voter that there is no compatibility of being a LGBT person, who is a human being, and voting Republican.

[DS0816]

Unlike your first post, I don't think these ones merit an elaborate response, DS0816, because you're basically just saying all LGBT people should agree with your analysis regarding 1) the meaning of being LGBT and 2) American politics. This forum is full of LGBT people who don't hate themselves, who are in favor of LGBT rights, who vote Republican, and who think these things are perfectly compatible with each other. Deal with it.

No.

I am conveying the view that LGBT people, who will not vote for Republicans, have for those Republican-voting LGBT persons.

People found their way to this website. They can get around to other websites as well. They can also peel themselves away from the Internet and get out into the world.

For anyone who doesn't already know, or for anyone who wants to lie to themselves, those people will find that what I posted here is an accurate representation of what LGBT people, who will not vote for Republicans (and they are the overwhelming majority; that's already indicated with those presidential Republican-vs.-Democratic votes), have for those Republican-voting LGBT persons.

There is no call for me to deal with anything which doesn't meet with your approval, or your fantasy wishes, DavidB. You, DavidB., will have to decide whether you have any interest, let alone intention, of recognizing and understanding why the overwhelming majority of LGBT people do not vote for Republicans.