Do BLM or ALM?

[SteveRogers]

[Bismarck]

BLM is a terrorist organization that calls for the murder of police officers

Conservative America is a terrorist organization that calls for the murder of the President and other elected officials, champions violent overthrow of the federal government and then sends its re-programmed ideologues into schools and churches to smear kids' brains on the walls

Okay

[Bismarck]

I think the problem is the question is presented as do all lives or just black lives matter when it really means do black lives matter as much as other lives. Its rediculous to expect someone to not pick the more inclusive one if they have to pick one or the other. People who say all lives matter are not dismissing black lives but are simply giving the obvious answer to the question.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

All lives matter. Enough said.

[OSR stands with Israel]

All lives matter. Enough said.

[Adam Griffin]

The forum always has a classic 65/35 divide on issues of "liberalism" and "freedom" that don't directly invade the precious and privileged little bubbles of upper-middle-class white boys. It is polls like these that show exactly who constitutes the membership of this forum - sickening that a less than insignificant sum of "liberals" and "progressives" think "All Lives Matter". Jesus Christ.

Seriously...has this forum lurched massively toward racism and to the right? Absolutely terrifying - this is exceeding even what the classic "privileged rich Atlas white kid" dynamic should allow.

[Famous Mortimer]

Is it racist to say "All men are created equal" now too? Do we need to start saying "All Black men are created equal"?

[Green Line]

The forum always has a classic 65/35 divide on issues of "liberalism" and "freedom" that don't directly invade the precious and privileged little bubbles of upper-middle-class white boys. It is polls like these that show exactly who constitutes the membership of this forum - sickening that a less than insignificant sum of "liberals" and "progressives" think "All Lives Matter". Jesus Christ.

Seriously...has this forum lurched massively toward racism and to the right? Absolutely terrifying - this is exceeding even what the classic "privileged rich Atlas white kid" dynamic should allow.

The most effective way to ensure that "black lives matter" is to convince the gang-bangers and criminals in the black community that they do, not the police.  They are the ones treating black lives like garbage.  Of course that doesn't get the press that a rogue police officer does, so we will continue to waste time with this facade while black children die every day.

[Intell]

All lives matter. Enough said.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

When the phrase "Black Lives Matter" is uttered, what is really being said is "Black Lives Matter, Too". The failure for them to make that critical distinction has certainly hurt their image - that black lives have as much value as white lives, or any other lives in general - but in their defense, most of the bitter cretins complaining about it in the first place would have just found some other angle to deflect to had that been the case in the first place.

The fact the get upset when someone like Bernie says ALM, proves they are a racist terrorist group.

Bernie never said ALM.

[Adam Griffin]

Is it racist to say "All men are created equal" now too? Do we need to start saying "All Black men are created equal"?

If someone is essentially making the statement that "black men are equal [to other men]" and your response is "WELL EVERYONE IS EQUAL" in a reactionary, defensive context, then yes, it is fycking racist.

The most effective way to ensure that "black lives matter" is to convince the gang-bangers and criminals in the black community that they do, not the police.  They are the ones treating black lives like garbage.  Of course that doesn't get the press that a rogue police officer does, so we will continue to waste time with this facade while black children die every day.

Thanks for the loaded phrases there. "Gang-bangers", "criminals"...I'm surprised you didn't find a way to use "thugs" and "welfare queens" in that diatribe, too. It's so easy to develop that classic sense of white defensiveness and say "oh yeah well let's talk about all the problems black people 'cause themselves'" rather than discussing the problems that are thrust on black by others. That's exactly what it is, of course.

Did you ever stop and think that many of the societal problems the community faces is directly related to the institutional discrimination and bias that exists in virtually every facet of our society, or do you just want to continue thinking that white people are inherently superior and that "getting one's live together" or whatever is equally doable regardless of race? I get that America doesn't like to swallow the pill that its lily-white heroes in uniform aren't perfect, but that is merely one part of a monumentally-huge structural bias that has been holding blacks back for centuries.

[SWE]

I came here to vote for the troll "No lives matter" option, but evidently the troll "All Lives Matter" option is winning, so I'm forced to vote seriously. Nice job, atlas.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Is it racist to say "All men are created equal" now too? Do we need to start saying "All Black men are created equal"?

If someone is essentially making the statement that "black men are equal [to other men]" and your response is "WELL EVERYONE IS EQUAL" in a reactionary, defensive context, then yes, it is fycking racist.

The most effective way to ensure that "black lives matter" is to convince the gang-bangers and criminals in the black community that they do, not the police.  They are the ones treating black lives like garbage.  Of course that doesn't get the press that a rogue police officer does, so we will continue to waste time with this facade while black children die every day.

Thanks for the loaded phrases there. "Gang-bangers", "criminals"...I'm surprised you didn't find a way to use "thugs" and "welfare queens" in that diatribe, too. It's so easy to develop that classic sense of white defensiveness and say "oh yeah well let's talk about all the problems black people 'cause themselves'" rather than discussing the problems that are thrust on black by others. That's exactly what it is, of course.

Did you ever stop and think that many of the societal problems the community faces is directly related to the institutional discrimination and bias that exists in virtually every facet of our society, or do you just want to continue thinking that white people are inherently superior and that "getting one's live together" or whatever is equally doable regardless of race? I get that America doesn't like to swallow the pill that its lily-white heroes in uniform aren't perfect, but that is merely one part of a monumentally-huge structural bias that has been holding blacks back for centuries.

Everything you've said has been super on point and I thank you for it. I'd only add on the supplemental piece that of course it's worse when people who fashion their duty as "to serve and protect" start killing people of color disproportionately. They are part of the system, this is true, but as individuals, we invest police with the power to inflict lethal force (often ultimately without official consequences) based solely on their own discretion at the time. They must be held to a higher standard.

That's not even to mention the fact that letting a policeman's subjective perception of a threat to his own safety govern his use of lethal force is a crazy standard. This is not to say we shouldn't want police to be able to defend themselves, but the standard seems to imply that protecting themselves is their primary concern, with others coming way, way down the list.

[ingemann]

Race of the people killed by police over 2 years



Black people is overresented by around 250%, hispanic is overrepresent by around 20%, Whites are underrepresented by around 20% and Asians by around 50%.

Cop killers, of the ones found
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2013/officers-feloniously-killed/felonious_topic_page_-2013

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Hispanic mostly count under White in FBI statistics.

But African American are overrepresented by 320%, White plus Hispanic are underrepresented by around 25%.

[tmthforu94]

I am absolutely amazed at the number of individuals "hiding behind the poll" here. I strongly encourage everyone to read carefully what has been said - you can really learn something here.

[RI]

It seems there's a major context problem here. I can see how if someone said "black lives matter" then another responded with "all lives matter", it could be seen as belittling/condescending.

But that's not the question posed, nor was it the question posed by CNN during the debate. The question is posed as an exclusive OR proposition. Do "black lives matter" or do "all lives matter". This is of course a false dichotomy as "black lives" ⊆ "all lives", thus an answer of "all lives matter" inherently also implies "black lives matter". Similarly, an answer of "white lives matter" is also implied by "all lives matter". Hence why the question, framed as such, is frustratingly stupid and an affront to logic.

If your question were simply "Do black lives matter as much as white/Asian/Hispanic/Pacific Islander/Native lives?", then of course the answer is yes. If your question were "Are blacks disproportionately killed by police, and is that bad?", of course the answer is yes. There are ways to have a legitimate and productive conversation about what should be done without resorting to intentionally inflammatory and reductive canards that spawn more debate than the actual issues at hand.

[Slander and/or Libel]

It seems there's a major context problem here. I can see how if someone said "black lives matter" then another responded with "all lives matter", it could be seen as belittling/condescending.

But that's not the question posed, nor was it the question posed by CNN during the debate. The question is posed as an exclusive OR proposition. Do "black lives matter" or do "all lives matter". This is of course a false dichotomy as "black lives" ⊆ "all lives", thus an answer of "all lives matter" inherently also implies "black lives matter". Similarly, an answer of "white lives matter" is also implied by "all lives matter". Hence why the question, framed as such, is frustratingly stupid and an affront to logic.

If your question were simply "Do black lives matter as much as white/Asian/Hispanic/Pacific Islander/Native lives?", then of course the answer is yes. If your question were "Are blacks disproportionately killed by police, and is that bad?", of course the answer is yes. There are ways to have a legitimate and productive conversation about what should be done without resorting to intentionally inflammatory and reductive canards that spawn more debate than the actual issues at hand.

Yes. Yes yes yes. The question was infuriatingly phrased in the first place, and it was insane of CNN to let it through as such.

[Adam Griffin]

It seems there's a major context problem here. I can see how if someone said "black lives matter" then another responded with "all lives matter", it could be seen as belittling/condescending.

The phrase only exists in the first place as a response to "black lives matter", so there is no context problem: this is the subconscious dialog people have in their heads when they see the phrases side-by-side. Nobody was saying "all lives matter" before this.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

The most effective way to ensure that "black lives matter" is to convince the gang-bangers and criminals in the black community that they do, not the police.  They are the ones treating black lives like garbage.  Of course that doesn't get the press that a rogue police officer does, so we will continue to waste time with this facade while black children die every day.

I agree.  I'm always surprised when a cop acting like a gang-banger makes the front page.  You would think a gang-banger acting like a gang-banger would be more unexpected and shocking.  Why is it that the looney left with their reverse racism expect cops to behave better then low life gang-bangers?

Government agents killing Jews is wrong.  Government agents killing black people shouldn't even be reported.

[Figueira]

The first three statements are all technically true, but "Black Lives Matter" is the only one that makes remote sense as a political statement right now.

I basically agree with this image:



I also agree with those who are saying that the CNN question was stupid.

[bobloblaw]

So black cops killers over represented by 320% and blacks killed by cops over represented by 250%? Sounds like theyre getting off pretty lightly.

[The Mikado]

Oh my God. I'm totally stealing that. Next time I hear "Save the whales!" I'll respond with "Dolphin Lives Matter."

[ingemann]

So black cops killers over represented by 320% and blacks killed by cops over represented by 250%? Sounds like they're getting off pretty lightly.

The numbers doesn't include the 25% where race is not reported, also the policed killed something like 1000 in average annual in the period shown, while only 28 cops were killed in 2013 and there was only 29 people taking part in the killings.

The stats are not relevant because it show that African American people deserve to be shot, what make them relevant that they show through the African American overrepresentation among cop killers, that African Americans are more likely to have a violent interaction with cops both as "victim" and "perpetrator", which indicate that higher violent crime rate is likely a significant part of why African Americans are more likely to be shoot than White Americans.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

So black cops killers over represented by 320% and blacks killed by cops over represented by 250%? Sounds like they're getting off pretty lightly.

The numbers doesn't include the 25% where race is not reported, also the policed killed something like 1000 in average annual in the period shown, while only 28 cops were killed in 2013 and there was only 29 people taking part in the killings.

The stats are not relevant because it show that African American people deserve to be shot, what make them relevant that they show through the African American overrepresentation among cop killers, that African Americans are more likely to have a violent interaction with cops both as "victim" and "perpetrator", which indicate that higher violent crime rate is likely a significant part of why African Americans are more likely to be shoot than White Americans.

Yeah which is why drug use amongst whites in DC is higher than blacks but blacks are arrested way more for drug offenses then whites.  It's because the black race deserves it.

[ingemann]

So black cops killers over represented by 320% and blacks killed by cops over represented by 250%? Sounds like they're getting off pretty lightly.

The numbers doesn't include the 25% where race is not reported, also the policed killed something like 1000 in average annual in the period shown, while only 28 cops were killed in 2013 and there was only 29 people taking part in the killings.

The stats are not relevant because it show that African American people deserve to be shot, what make them relevant that they show through the African American overrepresentation among cop killers, that African Americans are more likely to have a violent interaction with cops both as "victim" and "perpetrator", which indicate that higher violent crime rate is likely a significant part of why African Americans are more likely to be shoot than White Americans.

Yeah which is why drug use amongst whites in DC is higher than blacks but blacks are arrested way more for drug offenses then whites.  It's because the black race deserves it.

I have always found murder to be the most interesting statistic for violent crimes for two reasons; it's the hardest to hide and most murderers are caught. Around 50% of murderers in USA are African American (most of the victims are other African Americans), this give us a general idea that African Americans commit more violent crime than White people, this also make them more likely to have to interact with the police as the perpetrator of a crime. These things are basic facts.