'Religion of Peace' strikes again.
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  'Religion of Peace' strikes again.
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Author Topic: 'Religion of Peace' strikes again.  (Read 4552 times)
afleitch
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« on: May 14, 2005, 02:15:10 PM »
« edited: May 14, 2005, 02:20:11 PM by afleitch »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1611374,00.html

'It may be Europe's most liberal city - but if you are gay, you had best beware'

But as Chris Crain, editor of the Washington Blade, was walking hand in hand with his boyfriend near one of the gay districts in Amsterdam, two men standing on a street corner spat at his face. He stopped to ask why, was called a “fag” and suddenly the two youths turned into seven.

Surrounded, Mr Crain was kicked to the ground by the gang and ended up in hospital with a broken nose and badly bruised face.

His attackers were Moroccan youths, blamed by Dutch gay rights groups for a disturbing rise of gay-bashing, as conservative Islamic culture clashes with Dutch liberalism.'

It goes on...

'In the city where six months ago Theo van Gogh, the Dutch film-maker, was killed by an Islamic extremist, the tourist authorities felt compelled to issue a warning.

Herman Terbalkt, of the Amsterdam Tourist Board, said: “Gay visitors should be careful and alert. Some people in Amsterdam are not tolerant of other people. It is a social problem.” '

'Paul Buckley, originally from Birmingham, who works at the Downtown Café, was recently chased down the Straat by a Moroccan youth shouting flicker — Dutch for “f****t” — at him.

“I had to run into a café and hide, and he stood outside shouting abuse and threatening us for five minutes,” he said. “It was horrible. A lot of Moroccan and Turks aren’t that tolerant of homosexuality. They stand around causing trouble.”


Well if the Morrocans and Turks dont like Dutch culture then the can bloody well leave!

As someone who has also been attacked by a gang of Muslim youths for being gay I can empathise. While I'm not one for holding hands, it's my own experience that attacks by Muslims are an increasing practice, which my own local police force refuse to acknowledge (along with Muslim ran prostitution rings, gangs and racketeers and attacks on the city synagogue) I hope i'm not alone in being sick of this.

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opebo
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2005, 03:01:47 PM »

One cannot tolerate the intolerant.  Though in this case  hungry pigs would be the more appropriate solution.
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2005, 03:09:56 PM »

I certainly hope this does not become common in Minneapolis. Already we have the problem of Muslim gangs vandalizing Christian churches.
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Banana Republic
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2005, 03:37:57 PM »

Can't say I'm surprised really. I've never been attacked physically, but certainly insulted and harrassed.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2005, 04:08:44 PM »

This sort of thing is appalling, but it's important to remember that not all Muslims are like this. To assume that they are is almost as bad as what the nutters in the article did.
It's also very, very important to realise that not all Muslims are the same.
Let's take the U.K; Pakistanis are very, very different to Bangladeshis. Pakistanis from Mirpur (3 out of 4 British Pakistanis are from that one obscure district in Kashmir; the city was flooded by the Pakistani Government to build a dam. You couldn't "send them back" even if you wanted to) are different to Pakistanis not from Mirpur.
Even after this there's a big differance between Mirpuri Kashmiris in London, Birmingham, Leicester and (especially) the Pennine Belt. And in the Pennine Belt there's a big difference between the young and the old and within the young between a small minority of nutters and an overwhelming majority of people who just want to integrate, to be normal.
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Gabu
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2005, 04:20:51 PM »

I mainly have one question: why is it that, since these are Muslims, they somehow represent all one billion Muslims on Earth?  If they were a group of black people going around harassing homosexuals, would black people all of a sudden all be homophobic?

Guess why the only Muslims you see in the newspaper are those who do things like this?  Because the stories of the millions of peaceful Muslims don't sell.  It's about time we stopped basing our opinion of an entire group based on the tiny pinhole view that the media decides to show us.
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afleitch
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2005, 05:56:54 PM »

Oh homophobia is common in all walks of life, but I'd rather it didnt degenerate into violence.
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opebo
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2005, 06:02:46 PM »

I mainly have one question: why is it that, since these are Muslims, they somehow represent all one billion Muslims on Earth?  If they were a group of black people going around harassing homosexuals, would black people all of a sudden all be homophobic?

Most black people are homophobic.

Of course most people are homophobic, particularly most religious.  Only a fairly small percentage of the population is enlightened.  But it is fair to say that Muslims, as a group are among the worst - on a par with the born-agains.
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patrick1
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2005, 06:05:44 PM »

This sort of thing is appalling, but it's important to remember that not all Muslims are like this. To assume that they are is almost as bad as what the nutters in the article did.
It's also very, very important to realise that not all Muslims are the same.
Let's take the U.K; Pakistanis are very, very different to Bangladeshis. Pakistanis from Mirpur (3 out of 4 British Pakistanis are from that one obscure district in Kashmir; the city was flooded by the Pakistani Government to build a dam. You couldn't "send them back" even if you wanted to) are different to Pakistanis not from Mirpur.
Even after this there's a big differance between Mirpuri Kashmiris in London, Birmingham, Leicester and (especially) the Pennine Belt. And in the Pennine Belt there's a big difference between the young and the old and within the young between a small minority of nutters and an overwhelming majority of people who just want to integrate, to be normal.

I'm curious. What are the differences?  I don't really interact much with the Pakistani and Bengalis here in the states beyond the occasional taxi driver and convenience store guy. (not trying to be funny there but its the truth)
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Kodratos
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2005, 06:28:55 PM »

The muslims I know are fine human beings.
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Gabu
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2005, 06:34:57 PM »

The muslims I know are fine human beings.

They're clearly just hiding it. Tongue
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PADem
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2005, 06:43:05 PM »

I mainly have one question: why is it that, since these are Muslims, they somehow represent all one billion Muslims on Earth?  If they were a group of black people going around harassing homosexuals, would black people all of a sudden all be homophobic?

Most black people are homophobic.


Are we?
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Jake
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2005, 07:55:57 PM »


Ignore opebo. Anyone who doesn't want to  kids is homophobic to him.
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Cashcow
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2005, 01:22:56 AM »


Ignore opebo. Anyone who doesn't want to  kids is homophobic to him.

Well, I like ing kids and hate gays, so his argument's out the window.

The Muslims in Europe do seem unusually violent, at least in comparison to the ones in Dearborn, Michigan, and other nearby areas.
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opebo
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2005, 06:50:19 AM »

I mainly have one question: why is it that, since these are Muslims, they somehow represent all one billion Muslims on Earth?  If they were a group of black people going around harassing homosexuals, would black people all of a sudden all be homophobic?
Most black people are homophobic.
Are we?

Certainly the great majority, of course.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2005, 08:10:07 AM »

And you're a racist
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Banana Republic
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2005, 11:07:25 AM »

The Muslims in Europe do seem unusually violent, at least in comparison to the ones in Dearborn, Michigan, and other nearby areas.

They are more violent, but the surprise is the sharp contrast between the current European Muslims(age 30 or so and below) and the previous generation. Several factors have contributed to this. When the previous generation came here they integrated into our society. This led to a development of nominal-Islam. The parents would bring thier children to the mosque, but nothing else. Since the parents weren't really into Islam and wouldn't become imams, the Muslim community imported all of thier imams from places like Saudi Arabia and from radical schools that weren't necissarily accepted even in some middle eastern countries. So most of the imams found in the mosques of Europe were now radicals. So the kids that were going to mosques came into contact with this reactionary fascist thought and bought into it. This continues to this day. There are also reasons why French muslims are the most violent, but I won't go into that right now(unless you want).
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opebo
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2005, 11:16:31 AM »


So?  Surely you cannot dispute the fact that the great majority of black-skinned people are homophobic?  Probably even a greater percentage than homophobes among the white-skinned people.  Heck probably even a few homosexuals hate blacks, though I'm sure that is much more unusual.
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afleitch
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2005, 11:50:27 AM »

There is homphobia in the black community and in much of the music produced by modern black artists (along with violent attitudes to the police, women and each other frankly) Jamaica has SEVERE problems, and Britain has seen a small but steady trickle of gays from Jamaica claiming asylum as a result. There was of course the banning of black music artists like Beanie Man from the MOBO awards in Britain last year due to song lyrics promoting the murder of gay people. And of course we have violence in London between the self perceived 'native' Afro Carribean community and recent African new comers from Nigeria and the Sudan (as well as strange witch trials and odd customs which I won't go into) Last summer the Guardian had a fantastic article about it, saying how Africans were labelled a 'dirty kind of black' by Afro-Carribean neighbours. To say that homophobia and racism does not occur within the black community because they are a minority in themselves is a fallacy.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2005, 12:33:29 PM »

There is homphobia in the black community

True. Bigotry exists in all communities. What opebo has been coming out with is racist though.

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True. But a lot of music produced by people with white skins is and has been pretty bigoted as well. Some of the stuff from the '70's and '80's was disgustingly racist.

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With the exception of the police (and that's for understandable reasons. Not that I approve of that attitude, but it's important to remember that until very recently the police's attitude towards blacks in Britain was disgraceful. People have long memories, unfortunately in that case) that's the work of a mindless minority. There are whites who are just as bad.
What's needed as far as the police thing goes is to build up trust. And, due to the abuses of certain parts of the police which carried on up until very recently, that's going to take a long time.

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True

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All this is true as well. But should the cultural problems of Jamaica be used as a pretext to claim that everyone who happens to have the same skin colour has the same problem?

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Which is nowhere near as bad or as common as certain sections of the media like to think.

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1. Most African immigrants don't go in for that sort of stuff. Mostly they're Evangelical Christians.

2. Most communities have a small group of weirdo's who practice seriously f***ed up customs. Like hare-coursing for example (although that's banned now).

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True. But I'm not argueing that.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2005, 12:36:22 PM »

Note to Americans: the various black communities over here are (despite all the problems) much, much more integrated than in the U.S.
There aren't any black ghetto's for one thing.
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phk
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2005, 01:35:54 PM »

Islam should be banned.
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BRTD
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2005, 02:02:21 PM »

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True. But a lot of music produced by people with white skins is and has been pretty bigoted as well. Some of the stuff from the '70's and '80's was disgustingly racist.

well if you're talking about all the skinhead bands that stuff isn't really comparable, it was never part of the mainstream in anyway and simply existed as its own subculture.

Of course bigotry from white artists otherwise isn't too difficult to find. Exhibit A: Eminem
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opebo
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2005, 03:46:49 PM »


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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2005, 03:51:05 PM »

Why don't you just f*** off back to you're bedsit?
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