Structure, size, powers and election of Presidency, VP. (Debating)

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

As I said in the Regional thread, we really need to wipe the slate clean before rebuilding the government. I therefore propose the following amendment:

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[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Honestly, the VP is perhaps the most useless position in the federal government, and while we currently have two very qualified candidates running for the job in the upcoming election, there are many better uses for their talents than sitting around for four months waiting for the president to be banned. Literally every power help by the VP, both Constitutional and the traditional duties mentioned by Cris, could be fulfilled by a cabinet officer who would be less reliant on the president to give him or her an actual purpose. Even the effect of the VP on presidential campaigns (unity tickets, etc.) could be replicated by announcing cabinet picks before the election.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I'm sure it has been suggested before, but I am curious to hear the argument why people think it is a bad idea: why not let the Vice President lead the Senate?

1. As it exists today, the VP is primarily a patronage office used to solidify electoral coalitions, and as such is chosen based on partisan credentials, not experience or activity.
2. Having the Senate President be a member of the chamber cuts down on the number of offices at a time when governmental bloating is a big problem.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Who says the VP needs a job anyway? They exist to stand in for the president should he disappear or be away for an extended period of time.

Given the current scarcity of active, competent players, I don't think purposefully creating placeholder offices is a good idea. In this scenario, you're either a) wasting the talents of an active player by putting them in a powerless position; or b) risking elevating an inactive player to the presidency in an attempt to avoid "a".

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Hence I call motion to reconsider the amendment just adopted should such motions be allowed in this convention.

All my amendment did was to strike the existing text so we can build a new government from scratch. It wasn't aimed at permanently abolishing the Vice Presidency.

In regards to what Yankee and others have said, I'm fine with keeping the VP if we give him/her an actual job to do, but otherwise the office needs to go. The current situation, where the office has next to no powers unless the president is hit by a falling piano, only encourages inactivity and wastes the talents of competent players who hold it. A separately-elected VP might be a good idea in a bicameral system, or if we allow them to vote on legislation (sort of like the Senator At-Large I proposed back in July).

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I third the motion for a principle vote.

Given that we have voted to adopt a two-house Congress, the vice presidency has the potential to become an important part of the government. I'm unsure as to how I will vote at this point.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

ABSTAIN

I'm okay with keeping the VP if we give him/her an actual job to do, as opposed to sitting around for four months waiting for the president to be banned. In lieu of a concrete plan to make this happen, I can't support this proposal - but I don't want to shoot the possibility out of the water, either.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

We need to remember that the VP is chosen for three main reasons, because they help the president get elected, in case the president resigns and to vote as the president would in the senate.

And that is because these are the only major responsibilities currently held by the Vice President. If we give the veep new responsibilities, it stands to reason that these will alter the dynamics of the selection process, just as the dynamics of any other election would change if the powers of the office in question were significantly altered.

Honestly, the reason nobody pays attention to Vice Presidential candidates right now (except when forming unity tickets) is because the office has no significant responsibilities - it's not unlike taking the wheels off your car and then complaining that it doesn't go anywhere. By giving the Vice President an important role in running the national government, we will force candidates and voters to pay attention to VP picks, and the game will be better for it.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Have we settled the issue of the VP yet? Not that I'm complaining about having nothing to do, but we need closure here

The text of the Executive Article adopted by the Convention preserves the office of VP and gives him the additional duty of serving as "President of the Congress" (i.e. the coordinator of the House and Senate). The specifics of that role will be hashed out once we've finished with the Judiciary and the Bill of Rights.