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  Talk Elections
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  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Powers of federal govt (Senate) and of regional govts. (Debating)
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Author Topic: Powers of federal govt (Senate) and of regional govts. (Debating)  (Read 16086 times)
Oakvale
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« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2015, 03:36:53 pm »

Nope.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2015, 07:35:12 am »

Nope Angry
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2015, 03:06:32 pm »

Abstain
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2015, 04:09:26 pm »

AYE - 3
NAY - 8
ABSTAIN - 5

The amendment failed to pass.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2015, 05:45:25 pm »

For the record NAY because of article 5. The allocation of regional legislatures has always been a strictly regional matter.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2015, 06:35:24 pm »

     I propose:

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     Making the amendment less specific, so we can change things without needing to amend the Constitution.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2015, 07:33:34 am »

Delegates have 24 hours to object.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2015, 07:10:05 pm »

I'd prefer to greatly condense the text of that section: as it is, the format is still quite bulky. Perhaps something like this:

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Note that this does not change the substance of PiT's amendment: rather, it simply reduces the overall length of the text by eliminating redundancies and combining similar sections into one.

- Sections 1 and 9 of PiT's amendment are combined, as both deal with the circumstances in which Regions may enter into "treaties, alliances, and confederations": rather than a complicated description of the circumstances in which inter-Regional alliances are allowable and a separate prohibition of alliances with foreign powers, the new Section one establishes the general requirement that all proposed pacts have the consent of the national legislature.
-Sections 2, 4, 7, and 8 are combined, as all are fairly succinct descriptions of powers denied to the Regions.
-Section 5 is further condensed, eliminating the bulky second clause with the more succinct "except in the manner prescribed by the Federal Legislature"
-Section 6 (now Section 3) is left intact, with some tweaks to the wording.

(To avoid confusion, I will not introduce this as an official amendment until we have decided whether or not to adopt PiT's version.)
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2015, 09:05:44 pm »

Section 5 is a nonstarter.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2015, 07:04:33 am »

Agreed - I feel that there should be a system in place to reduce or increase the size of the legislature based on the number of candidates.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2015, 07:27:10 am »

If you are objecting to the amendment, please make clear it.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2015, 07:37:13 am »

I object.
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Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2015, 07:42:06 am »

The objection, unfortunately, was 4 minutes too late.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2015, 09:20:39 am »

Adam is right.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2015, 11:43:40 am »

In that case, I hereby propose the following amendment:

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The purpose of this amendment is to make the current text simpler and more succinct; it does not significantly alter the substance of PiT's amendment.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2015, 11:51:24 am »

Delegates have 24 hours to object.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2015, 12:12:23 pm »

I object - for the same reason as before. Section 5 is, for me, unworkable - I feel that there should be a system in place to reduce or increase the size of the legislature based on the number of candidates.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2015, 12:39:19 pm »

I object - for the same reason as before. Section 5 is, for me, unworkable - I feel that there should be a system in place to reduce or increase the size of the legislature based on the number of candidates.

Rejecting my amendment would not eliminate Section 5 because it was already adopted with PiT's amendment. If mine is voted down, we'll be left with a long-winded blueprint1 that does everything my amendment does in a more bulky, verbose style. A better strategy would be to adopt my amendment - which simplifies the current text significantly - and then to introduce a motion to strike Section 5.

1 No offense, PiT.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2015, 12:42:22 pm »

I object - for the same reason as before. Section 5 is, for me, unworkable - I feel that there should be a system in place to reduce or increase the size of the legislature based on the number of candidates.

Rejecting my amendment would not eliminate Section 5 because it was already adopted with PiT's amendment. If mine is voted down, we'll be left with a long-winded blueprint1 that does everything my amendment does in a more bulky, verbose style. A better strategy would be to adopt my amendment - which simplifies the current text significantly - and then to introduce a motion to strike Section 5.

1 No offense, PiT.
I'll withdraw my objection and I'll propose an amendment to strike clause five.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2015, 03:12:21 pm »

     No offense taken, Senator Truman; I appreciate the efforts to make the Constitution more compact and readable.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2015, 09:23:19 pm »


My objection is not too late. So the previous motion must be put up for a vote.
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Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2015, 09:03:09 am »


My objection is not too late. So the previous motion must be put up for a vote.

If Clyde's statement didn't count as an objection, then obviously yours didn't, either. At least you learned a valuable lesson on how to properly propose amendments and levy binding criticisms!
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2015, 07:13:08 pm »


My objection is not too late. So the previous motion must be put up for a vote.

If Clyde's statement didn't count as an objection, then obviously yours didn't, either. At least you learned a valuable lesson on how to properly propose amendments and levy binding criticisms!

My objection was on time and within protocol. Mind counts. Cris motion to honor my objection by opening a vote on the amendment from the 23rd. Adam was right about Clyde's but completely wrong about mine. You lose on this one Griff.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2015, 07:22:21 pm »


My objection is not too late. So the previous motion must be put up for a vote.

If Clyde's statement didn't count as an objection, then obviously yours didn't, either. At least you learned a valuable lesson on how to properly propose amendments and levy binding criticisms!

My objection was on time and within protocol. Mind counts. Cris motion to honor my objection by opening a vote on the amendment from the 23rd. Adam was right about Clyde's but completely wrong about mine. You lose on this one Griff.

Posting "Section 5 is a nonstarter" is not a formal objection, JCL, as I'm sure you know from your service in the Senate and the Mideast Assembly. Every legislative body in this game requires members to post "I object" (or something of that nature) in order for said post to be considered an objection. Saying that you dislike the amendment is not enough; otherwise, my post would have counted as an objection as well.
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Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #74 on: October 26, 2015, 08:57:43 pm »


My objection is not too late. So the previous motion must be put up for a vote.

If Clyde's statement didn't count as an objection, then obviously yours didn't, either. At least you learned a valuable lesson on how to properly propose amendments and levy binding criticisms!

My objection was on time and within protocol. Mind counts. Cris motion to honor my objection by opening a vote on the amendment from the 23rd. Adam was right about Clyde's but completely wrong about mine. You lose on this one Griff.

Posting "Section 5 is a nonstarter" is not a formal objection, JCL, as I'm sure you know from your service in the Senate and the Mideast Assembly. Every legislative body in this game requires members to post "I object" (or something of that nature) in order for said post to be considered an objection. Saying that you dislike the amendment is not enough; otherwise, my post would have counted as an objection as well.

He really doesn't. He once against his desires on one of jambles' bills because he didn't understand what he was doing.
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