Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 10:40:36 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14
Author Topic: Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)  (Read 38769 times)
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #225 on: November 19, 2015, 07:49:45 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
No.
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Well, if we are doing the Senate via regions, I would be open to electing these seats via at-large.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #226 on: November 19, 2015, 10:08:48 PM »

Damn it, I was a couple hours too late.


I think At-Large is the best option for an obvious reason. Getting enough candidates for nine one an one elections would be a nightmare as you would need at least 18 candidates to make the thing work. What is worse, you would have to pull those candidates from a narrow tract of voters making it even more difficult. There is just no feasible or practical way to elect a 9 member house from a district based system.

At-Large allows you to pull from the entire nation, you can have a competative election with 12 to 15 candidates, and there will be greater ability to compete because you find your best voters anywhere in the country as opposed to just a handful of states.

Assuming I am doing my math right, the quota would be 12 under STV assuming 120 votes and 10 votes at 100 voters. Such a low threshold would mean you almost always have an opening for at least one independent House member, if not more. Granted, we might go with a different system, but STV works a lot better at 9 or 11 seats than it does at 5.
Logged
Adam Griffin
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,090
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #227 on: November 20, 2015, 06:52:00 AM »

Yay, let's have only marginally-predictable elections with a 9-member chamber instead of entirely-predictable elections with a 5 or 7-member chamber. Roll Eyes

And why is everyone now talking about variable-sized chambers? We just had a principle vote on the size of the chamber. It's over.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,135
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #228 on: November 20, 2015, 06:18:46 PM »

     I like at-large elections for the House, but we should think about the possibility of not electing it all at once. There are lots of possibilities here, so let's not hem it in.
Logged
Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #229 on: November 21, 2015, 05:17:44 AM »

I like PiT's idea to not elect them all at once. Maybe split it into 3 classes of 3 members, and if the number changes we can either have different-numbered classes (like how one of the US Senate's classes is 34 and the others are 33) or if, say, it's for 3-month terms and we have 10, we can have 4-winner elections each time, but 4th-place only gets a third of a term and is up next election.

Just throwing stuff at the convention wall to see what sticks.

And why is everyone now talking about variable-sized chambers? We just had a principle vote on the size of the chamber. It's over.

The point of the convention isn't to set a number to end all numbers, and leave it there for all eternity. The point of the convention is to bring more activity and interest to Atlasia, so when it comes to choosing the number of seats in a chamber it needs to be based on how many seats one forum-based elections game can sustain. Activity fluctuates, and even if it didn't it's hard to choose the Magic Number without seeing how things work, so why on earth would we want to set it to something we can't change without passing a constitutional amendment? It would make much more sense to have it naturally adjust to the activity.

And saying "we already had a vote" makes no sense when this option wasn't included, and wasn't even suggested until after the vote started. (Also, this is another example of the painfully annoying tendency of people to shoot down any debate simply because their prefered choice is the current status quo.)
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,613
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #230 on: November 21, 2015, 08:01:32 AM »

I don't think we should let the number of seats in the House to fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #231 on: November 21, 2015, 12:28:59 PM »

I would prefer that the entire House be elected every two months. In order for bicameralism to have a meaningful effect on the game (beyond making it harder to pass legislation), the structure of the two houses needs to be significantly different. If we expand House terms to 3 months and divide it into two Classes, we're left with a lower house that is essentially a slightly larger version of the Senate. A two month term, combined with a single class of Representatives, ensures that the lower house will quickly respond to shifts in the electorate, with the Senate balancing these shifts against the rights of the Regions.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #232 on: November 22, 2015, 03:43:15 PM »

A vote is now open on the following proposals. Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Oakvale
oakvale
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,827
Ukraine
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #233 on: November 22, 2015, 03:44:30 PM »

Abstain, at-large
Logged
windjammer
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,512
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #234 on: November 22, 2015, 03:51:05 PM »

Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #235 on: November 22, 2015, 03:53:34 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Clark Kent
ClarkKent
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,480
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #236 on: November 22, 2015, 04:07:56 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
bore
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,274
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #237 on: November 22, 2015, 04:29:51 PM »

No, At large
Logged
MadmanMotley
Bmotley
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,340
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.29, S: -5.91

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #238 on: November 22, 2015, 05:03:32 PM »

[quote]
OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Fluctuating House Membership
Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[   ] YES
[X] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[3] At-Large
[2] Regionally
[1] From Districts
Logged
NeverAgain
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,659
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #239 on: November 22, 2015, 05:41:32 PM »

Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[ X ] YES
[   ] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[ 1 ] At-Large
[ 2 ] Regionally
[ 3 ] From Districts
Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #240 on: November 22, 2015, 05:46:41 PM »

[quote]
OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Fluctuating House Membership
Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[   ] YES
[X] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[1] At-Large
[2] Regionally
[3] From Districts
Logged
Clyde1998
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,936
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #241 on: November 22, 2015, 05:48:21 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
VPH
vivaportugalhabs
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,682
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -0.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #242 on: November 22, 2015, 06:15:27 PM »

OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Fluctuating House Membership
Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[  ] YES
[ X ] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[  3 ] At-Large
[ 1  ] Regionally
[ 2  ] From Districts
Logged
MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,763
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #243 on: November 22, 2015, 06:25:51 PM »


OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Fluctuating House Membership
Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[  ] YES
[ X ] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[ 3 ] At-Large
[ 1 ] Regionally
[ 2 ] From Districts
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,019


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #244 on: November 22, 2015, 06:39:53 PM »

No, at large
Logged
Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #245 on: November 22, 2015, 06:47:03 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't get why almost everyone's voting against the fluctuating seat proposal. The idea wasn't to pick a number and set it, completely ignoring actual activity results post-convention, but to have the right number to allow for competitive, exciting elections. This is the way to do that.

What if we miscalculate and 9 is too much, or too little? This is the way to keep that from happening. If we don't allow for variable seats, we're just stuck with the number whether it works or not. Hopefully we got it right, and this faith everyone's placing in the number 9 is justified, but I'm skeptical.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,348


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #246 on: November 22, 2015, 10:40:38 PM »

No

At-Large
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,735
Antarctica


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #247 on: November 23, 2015, 01:11:26 AM »

abstain

1 from districts
2 at large
3 regionally
Logged
Adam Griffin
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,090
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #248 on: November 23, 2015, 02:16:27 AM »

No, at-large
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #249 on: November 23, 2015, 03:05:25 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.058 seconds with 11 queries.