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  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
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  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)
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Author Topic: Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)  (Read 24555 times)
Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2015, 05:19:04 pm »

Honestly, I think we should adopt unicameralism for this time. If the new version of this game works well, I would be open to bicameralism. But reducing the number of offices should be right now our most important goal.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2015, 05:52:46 pm »

As I have stated previously, bicameralism is a complete non starter for me.

I do not believe it is practical, and it would simply bog down the legislative process needlessly.

Besides, we could not support it with the required personnel at this time.
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Clark Kent
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« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2015, 06:28:26 pm »

While bicameralism works better in real life, in-game for Atlasia, a unicameral legislature is ideal with the current low activity.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2015, 01:18:46 am »

I stand by the Duke plan, I think it is the most practical way to handle a legislative arrangement in a three region environment. I would however suggest a smaller house than the one he had originally, so maybe 7 instead of 11.

That still leaves a net 13 reduction on offices overall.

A single At-Large Senator, or VP acting as an At-Large senator serves no purpose other than to ensure there isn't a tie. We should consider the consituency being represented. He represents the majority of the nation, and yet that national majority would invariably be outvoted whenever two region's (4 Senators) section interests differ from that that of the national one. One of the benefits of the present system, is that such is impossible.

In the past, many argued this is rarely ever a situation, but we will soon have Regional Senators advancing sectional interests that are indead hostile to the national interest. I think therefore that ensuring the national majority has an equal seat at the table is of paramount importance, now that we have a tangible example facing us.  A People's House like that in the Duke plan, address this concern.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2015, 09:02:40 am »

Are you ok with a principle vote on bicameralism?
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2015, 10:09:44 pm »

     I think we should go ahead with a principle vote.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2015, 02:30:55 am »

If bicameralism fails, I am going to push for the preservation of a class of Senators dedicated to representing the people of the nation in Nyman.
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bore
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« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2015, 07:05:59 am »

If bicameralism fails, I am going to push for the preservation of a class of Senators dedicated to representing the people of the nation in Nyman.

If bicameralism fails, I am going to push for the preservation of atlasia as a country that doesn't randomly torture kittens.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2015, 09:09:32 am »

Wait, why would we want a bicameral system?  We're already sustaining the unsustainable regions under this system; I don't know why we need another level of government.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2015, 01:02:51 pm »

Wait, why would we want a bicameral system?  We're already sustaining the unsustainable regions under this system; I don't know why we need another level of government.

Obviously, we don't.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2015, 01:22:10 pm »

Bicameralism doesn't add offices. It reduces them by nearly 15. I would never propose any plan that increases offices.

The plan increases the number of elections we have(this IS an election game), shortens terms, gives the VP a job, allows people to participate in the federal government by representing their region and makes the senate more of an at large elected body.

You can vote it down if you wish, but it's the only plan being proposed that actually changes the game and makes it interesting agsin by introducing a new dynamic we haven't experienced before without alienating a huge group of people that would leave if it became a mock parliament.

This plan was well thought would and explained in my September 2013 memorandum. It balances a lot of requests and sets the game up for long term success. And again, it REDUCES the number of offices. There will be no supporting even more offices. It would make the game fun agsin without breaking it

That's what I want.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2015, 04:38:10 pm »

It's time for a principle vote. It'll last 48 hours.

What legislative system do you support?

[ ] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2015, 04:39:03 pm »

Unicameralism
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2015, 05:35:16 pm »

What legislative system do you support?

[ ] Bicameralism
[X] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain



I cast this vote reluctantly, as I do like the idea of bicameralism from a theoretical standpoint. Ultimately, however, I was forced to the conclusion that establishing a second legislative house is unwise at the present juncture - not for the usual reasons of governmental bloating or legislative gridlock, but out of concern for a quality whose absence has been one of the driving forces behind Atlasia's decline: competition.

Let us, for a moment, consider the smallest rendition of bicameralism thus far proposed: a 6 member Senate coupled with a 7 member House. Assuming each Region adopts a 5 man government, that would leave us with a total of 36 elected and appointed positions nationwide, or 12 less than the current 48. Unless we want every candidate for office to run unopposed, however, the number of active citizens needed to sustain such a state of affairs is actually much more than that. At minimum, a total of 58 active users would need to be more-or-less continually involved in the game (35 officers, plus 23 challengers for each elected position), and even then we would just barely have enough people to field two candidates for every office in every election. A hypothetical election in which every federal office was on the ballot (the president and VP, 6 Senators, and 7 Representatives) would require 30 candidates in order for every race to be competitive (if only half the Senate is elected every two months, the number would fall to 24). By contrast, last weekend's federal election saw a total of 14 candidates appear on the ballot, plus two write-in candidates for Midwest Senate.

If someone has a brilliant strategy for tripling the number of active office-seakers, I'm all ears; as for myself, I see no way to establish a meaningful bicameral system without unwittingly giving rise to a non-competitve party system.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2015, 05:54:24 pm »

What legislative system do you support?

[X] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain

I think we could have two five member houses.

1x1 - President
5x1 - Senate
5x1 - House of Representatives
1x3 - Governors
5x3 - Regional Representatives.

29 elected officials.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #65 on: October 28, 2015, 06:46:12 pm »

Bicameral

Opportunity to be a voice in our government will drive activity in ways one on one recruitment won't plus this could be a workable compromise towards those of us that consolidation will negatively impact.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #66 on: October 28, 2015, 07:59:45 pm »

Unicameralism
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VPH
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« Reply #67 on: October 28, 2015, 08:34:23 pm »

It's time for a principle vote. It'll last 48 hours.

What legislative system do you support?

[ X ] Bicameralism
[  ] Unicameralism
[  ] Abstain
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2015, 08:59:57 pm »

[ X ] Bicameralism
[  ] Unicameralism
[  ] Abstain
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2015, 09:06:23 pm »

[  ] Bicameralism
[X] Unicameralism

What legislative system do you support?

[X] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain

I think we could have two five member houses.

1x1 - President
5x1 - Senate
5x1 - House of Representatives
1x3 - Governors
5x3 - Regional Representatives.

29 elected officials.

     I will say, axing the Cabinet is a truly bold proposal. I fear it would create too many problems to be worth it, however.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2015, 10:48:30 pm »

Ultimately it is a nice idea, but I find it to be unpractical at this point.

What legislative system do you support?

[ ] Bicameralism
[X] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
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Pack the Court & Lock Him Up
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« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2015, 10:51:48 pm »

[X] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2015, 11:33:50 pm »

[X]bicameralism
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2015, 12:11:56 am »

What legislative system do you support?

[X] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2015, 12:13:31 am »

Wait, why would we want a bicameral system?  We're already sustaining the unsustainable regions under this system; I don't know why we need another level of government.

Obviously, we don't.

It is not another layer of gov't. It is reorganizing the the legislative branch.
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