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  Talk Elections
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  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED) (search mode)
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Author Topic: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)  (Read 39606 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: October 09, 2015, 01:57:47 am »

I will not support anything less than three regions. If regions are to serve the purpose stated by the proponents of the two region proposal, there would not be enough offices to achieve that with such a proposal. In the South we have had two back to back elections for Governor, where the losing candidate has departed from the game. We need an appropriate balance and two regions just cuts too deep in this regard.

I think we have a solid proposal built a three region map and that is where we should be going.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 05:41:34 pm »

In the South we have had two back to back elections for Governor, where the losing candidate has departed from the game.

That doesn't do it justice. We have had 3 straight region-wide single-winner elections where the loser has left: Flo > DeadPrez, PiT > Hagrid, and someone who's name I can't recall > DarTheBearNC. In fact, the last loser of a region-wide single-winner election in the South to not leave the game or go inactive immediately after is all the way back in February, a certain someone from North Carolina.

Never heard of him. Tongue

But yeah, for the loser of a race, they are out of office and for a newer person that deprives them of a chance ot make a name for themselves. We need to have enough offices to give them a chance to establish themselves, otherwise they will leave after their first or second defeat.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 05:43:52 pm »

Nay on the fascist Classic Conservative amendment.
For the love of God I'm not a fascist, nor is anyone other Atlasia here, you might not like my views on some issue but disagreement doesn't make someone a fascist.

Someone has to fill TNF's vacuum, of calling Federalists fascists. I guess they selected a rotating committee.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 04:25:38 am »

AYE
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2015, 02:17:39 am »

I have been pushing for greater powers to be devolved to the regions for years and since we are likely to have a legislative restart, now i the time to do it. However, I find seperatism to be just a bridge too far.

And to respond to Tmth's earlier posts. That is a false equivalency. Supporting regional rights does not equal supporting secession, and I have consistently supported regional rights, whilst also opposing every effort at secession that has occured since I have been here.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2015, 12:21:22 pm »

Nay

Sorry man, Sad I will detail my reasons for the vote when I get off work.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2015, 03:11:05 am »

NAY


But I would be open to changing my opinion on a higher threshold like say that of Tmth's. Sorry, Leinad. Sad
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2015, 10:32:07 pm »

I think our best bet is to design a simple text with a 75% threshold for passage and then pass it so we can move on to the most important issue of all. Deciding the number of regions, once we have that settled, the discussion on the structure of the Legislative branch can proceed.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2015, 12:01:59 pm »

How many regions there should be?

[] 0
[] 1
[] 2
[1] 3
[2] 4
[3] 5
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2015, 01:30:52 am »

I agree with Adam on both issues. One the Carca should be the basis. We can deal with some minor shifts like the IA/MN one obviously, but we should operate from that as the starting point and make as few changes as possible. If we get too far into the weeds on state shifts, it will destroy any hope of agreeing to a constitution, much less ratifying it.


I also fully agree that the names should be decided by the region's themselves if they ae going to anything. The Constitution should use directions, not numbers and aside from that it should be up to the region. The South has changed its name three times since I joined this game (Southern, Dirty South, Imperial Dominion of the South and now just South). They are perfectly capable of making that choice themselves.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 02:20:45 am »

AYE
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2015, 12:54:41 am »

I am fine with the map and removing the numbering system, but I prefer the regions be able to select their own names.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2015, 12:33:12 am »

and yet you didn't join the process (presumably because the Federalists were lynching people right and left for daring to support consolidation),

Bullsh**t!!!


Tmth was overwhelmingly elected as Party Chairman in December 2013 as an aknowledged supporter of Consolidation, to replace another pro-Consolidation Chairman, Maxwell. Duke was nominated in October 2013, running as a pro-Consolidation independent with a Federalist VP, who also supported consolidation.

Of the three Federalist Senators, only one voted against the final FTR amendment, and that was after said single Federalist Nay exerted much effort to assist in structuring a workable process. This same Nay voter than expedited the process to bring the FTR back up after three lame-ass Senators you elected went AWOL and caused it to fail the first time. Of course you weren't here for that because you had pussed out like a err deregistered. Tongue

The  opposition that killed it at the ratification booth came to ahead in January 2014, by which time Duke had been damaged amongst Conservatives from the perception he was too compromising with TNF. I would also remind you that the first, albeit abortive, challenger to Duke, was pro-consolidation Maxwell.

Consolidation did divide the Party, but there was no effort to lynch pro-consolidation people because they were pro-consolidation and it was certainly not an overwhelming factor whilst CARCA 2013 was underway. It did get lumped onto many unfair critiques that was leveled at Duke and helped to fuel the Reaganfan challenge, in early 2014, not in 2013.

Once again your take on these events is clouded by the simple fact, that, as we painfully learned this summer, there is no substitute for being there. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2015, 02:16:04 am »

and yet you didn't join the process (presumably because the Federalists were lynching people right and left for daring to support consolidation),

Bullsh**t!!!


Tmth was overwhelmingly elected as Party Chairman in December 2013 as an aknowledged supporter of Consolidation, to replace another pro-Consolidation Chairman, Maxwell. Duke was nominated in October 2013, running as a pro-Consolidation independent with a Federalist VP, who also supported consolidation.

Of the three Federalist Senators, only one voted against the final FTR amendment, and that was after said single Federalist Nay exerted much effort to assist in structuring a workable process. This same Nay voter than expedited the process to bring the FTR back up after three lame-ass Senators you elected went AWOL and caused it to fail the first time. Of course you weren't here for that because you had pussed out like a err deregistered. Tongue

The  opposition that killed it at the ratification booth came to ahead in January 2014, by which time Duke had been damaged amongst Conservatives from the perception he was too compromising with TNF. I would also remind you that the first, albeit abortive, challenger to Duke, was pro-consolidation Maxwell.

Consolidation did divide the Party, but there was no effort to lynch pro-consolidation people because they were pro-consolidation and it was certainly not an overwhelming factor whilst CARCA 2013 was underway. It did get lumped onto many unfair critiques that was leveled at Duke and helped to fuel the Reaganfan challenge, in early 2014, not in 2013.

Once again your take on these events is clouded by the simple fact, that, as we painfully learned this summer, there is no substitute for being there. Tongue

All of that occurred after CARCA and after Hagrid more or less had stopped influencing the process by proxy. I was informed by pro-consolidation Federalists during that time that they were facing pressure not to be involved. In addition, I'm sure Federalist Independent President Duke can elaborate on just how much criticism (including a primary challenge) he faced over being pro-consolidation, but he can put it in his own words if he wishes!

I will say I think Yankee's memory of what happened was a bit more rosy than what actually occurred Tongue

I was basically told I needed to soften/abandon my consolidation rhetoric or I would lose the primary to Reaganfan, and Maxwell had to do the same before he launched his primary challenge against me. Neither of us were really able to run on pro-consolidation because it was so toxic that the party would elect a troll as their candidate over anyone remotely serious. They didn't like that I held hands with TNF and flirted with the Labor Party all during my presidency from across the bar, I was famously told that if I didn't blanket VETO every TNF/Labor bill, I shouldn't be in office. That was great advice! Wink

The consolidation debate is part of what pushed me to coming within a few minutes of switching to the Labor Party, I was so close I had written a speech announcing the switch which I still have somewhere on my computer, but at the end I decided to stay loyal mainly to Yankee and run with the Federalists because I'm a good friend and I don't abandon those who support me.

You missed my point Adam was taking about CARCA, which if memory serves me was in October/November 2013. It was certainly before Adam deregistered and therefore couldn't have been in December or later.

Everything you are saying was true, in December and afterwards. There was resistance in the fall, but it was mainly centered in the Mideast, the region to be axed until a month or two later. I am not aware of any organized opposition in October within Federalist circles. I nearly left the Party myself because I felt it had not taken Rimjob seriously even much less any concern about consolidation. There was dramatic shift once Hagrid began to actively oppose consolidation.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2015, 10:16:36 pm »

AYE
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2015, 02:24:42 am »

Once again, it would be my preference for the regions to decide the names of the region like the south going from Southeast, to Dirty South, to Imperial Dominion of the South and now to just South, that was our choice and it should be the region's choice under the new constitution.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2015, 05:22:18 pm »
« Edited: November 10, 2015, 05:23:56 pm by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

This is patently ridiculous. There is no way I am going to let this power be usurped from the regions in this new constitution. I came here to effect devolution, not the centralization of the right to pick these names. The DS/IDS and Most Serene Republic of the Midwest have the right to name themselves what they want. If the people of the South vote to change their name, then by golly sir, it will do so whether this Constitution likes it or not. That is the road to secession, my friend, I think your region's recent experience would illustrate the need to not repress regions in their cultural choices, otherwise they will seek other homes.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2015, 06:52:20 am »

AYE




Some people just couldn't stand the fact that South had chosen to name itself first Dirty South and then Imperial Dominion of the South. Even though it hasn't been the latter for nine months, many are still burned by it.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2015, 03:40:30 am »


Region A (blue)Sad bgwah
Region B (green)Sad Duke
Region C (red)Sad Scott


FTFY Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2015, 03:34:21 am »

I do agree with North as being superior to Northeast. However, I must insist that the the right of the regions to change their names be preserved.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2015, 01:12:47 am »

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2015, 10:27:29 pm »

RESULTS of the PRINCIPLE VOTE on REGIONAL NOMENCLATURE

Round I
(6) Let the Regions Name Themselves
(4) West, South, Northeast
(2) West, South, North
(1) Fremont, Rayburn, Franklin
(1) Wolfen, Griffin, Hamilton

As "Fremont, Rayburn, Franklin" has the greatest number of second preferences, "Wolfen, Griffin, Hamilton" is eliminated

Round II
(7) Let the Regions Name Themselves
(4) West, South, Northeast
(2) West, South, North
(1) Fremont, Rayburn, Franklin

"Fremont, Rayburn, Franklin" is eliminated

Round III
(8 ) Let the Regions Name Themselves
(4 ) West, South, Northeast
(2 ) West, South, North

With a majority of voting delegates in favor, the Convention has elected to devolve this issue to the newly-established Regions.

EWWWWW YEAAH!!!! ALRIGHT!!!!
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2015, 10:28:46 pm »

Yes, this was probably the best result in the long run. I'm glad to see that my Region won't be named after a sockmaster, at any rate.

As the issue of Regional powers is being discussed in another thread, I think this wraps up discussion on this topic. If there are no objections in the next 24 hours, I move that we consider this the final text for Article I:

Quote
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Though I should note I don't see any indication of devolution and a potential court case even imposing northern, southern and western as names under the supremacy clause.

We need something like this:
v. The regions reserve the right to change their names in accordance with their own constitutions and shall be recognized according to their new name by the Federal Government.

So I guess I object.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2015, 03:17:16 am »

AYE


Well, you know, some Libertarians, who shall remain anonymous, bless their hearts, believe that citizens should have the right to do anything without any interference from governments.

Truly, there are times when citizens have to be protected from themselves by governments.   

Dallas and Nappy's 2014 romp through the Northeast really did leave a lasting impact on you.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2015, 11:43:35 pm »

It appears we still have a some ways to go on the communication front. Wink


Anyway, Griffin what concerns precisely would fit here as opposed to the other thread on regional powers?
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